Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Taco Corp

Shane Horgan due to be on The Rugby Club, SS2, Thursday at 7pm to preview the tour

JRant

Fishooks12 wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

He's probably the best 6 in the squad as well to be honest.
I'd have no problem with Henry and POM getting a fair crack of whip each and given a genuine chance to claim a spot on the team. I'd be amazed if this happens though as DK shows unwaviering support of his favourites and continually ignores form and unfortunately for Henry, POM is in the latter category. That's no slight on POM by the way as I think he's a quality player but there is definitely some double standards being applied by this management team when it comes to the treatment of a lot of players.

I'd agree but in purely rugby terms I think SOB has become a better 7 than 6 over the last year. So makes sense to play him in position

Without a doubt he's a fantastic 7 these days. It would be nice to see a couple of different combinations used to be honest.
We always seem to be one injury away from a crisis these days due to our serious lack of developing players. There really is no excuse with the amount of talent in the country at the moment.

Cpt_Blackbeard

With all the criticism of Zebo's selection that has done the rounds on here, its interesting to note that he was singled out for praise by the Kiwi media following an open training session. A small article from the independent mentioning it can be found here.

Dashing back wrote:

...it was refreshing to hear was the Kiwi media quiz Ireland assistant coach Les Kiss at yesterday's press conference about one of the younger members of the Ireland squad, who they felt "really stood out" at yesterday's training session.

The source of their interest? Flying winger Simon Zebo, whose rapid rise to prominence this season is in keeping with the pace that garnered the attention of the notoriously hard-to-impress locals.

A special section of TV1's night-time sports news was devoted to the "dashing back", with pointed reference given to the influence of former All Blacks winger Doug Howlett has had on Zebo at Munster.

Teferi

Yeah, he'd do well down in the S15. All attack, no defence. Just how they like it

Seriously though, give up your little crusade to defend Zebo. Nobody was spouting vitriol against him, the consensus was that there are at least 2 people who should have went ahead of him and are far more rounded players but realistically his selection is one of the least of our worries as he probably won't get significant game time barring injury. It was all very polite tbh.

Ardillaun

Teferi wrote: »

Yeah, he'd do well down in the S15. All attack, no defence. Just how they like it

Seriously though, give up your little crusade to defend Zebo. Nobody was spouting vitriol against him, the consensus was that there are at least 2 people who should have went ahead of him and are far more rounded players but realistically his selection is one of the least of our worries as he probably won't get significant game time barring injury. It was all very polite tbh.

Zebo would be a risky choice but his pace at least gives him a small something with which to push the ABs out of their comfort zone. The alternative choices, while more rounded players, are inferior to their opposite numbers in every way. It's a bit like our twenty year problem against France, whom we resemble, versus our success against the clodhoppers of England - who in turn are well able to beat France.

Ardillaun

JustinDee wrote: »

He also said in an article that he was on the way up to Sydney when he was in Brisbane once too. Nothing surprises me there.

Maybe north is south down under?

Tox56

Is Zebo a bad player? No.

Have overall more complete and more versatile players been ommitted due to his conclusion? In many people's opinion, yes.

Not that it matters really, they're already in New Zealand and he probably won't play anyway.

TomLamp

Imagine with the NZ media would be like if they saw Craig Gilroy training considering he embarassed Zebo last time they played. Ditto Kearney whos a far superior player.

Fishooks12

TomLamp wrote: »

Imagine with the NZ media would be like if they saw Craig Gilroy training considering he embarassed Zebo last time they played. Ditto Kearney whos a far superior player.

You really need to stop exaggerating

1) Zebo missed a tackle, a bad one but a missed tackle nonetheless. Gilroy is hardly known for his defense either (last weeks Baabaas match, Englands second try). Using an isolated incident in one game as a stick to beat a player with is pretty lazy

2) Dave Kearney might be slightly better defensively than Zebo and Gilroy but to say he's a far superior player is simply untrue

GerM

TomLamp wrote: »

Imagine with the NZ media would be like if they saw Craig Gilroy training considering he embarassed Zebo last time they played. Ditto Kearney whos a far superior player.

They wouldn't say anything. Zebo is a.very marketable bloke who is playing under the tutelage of a NZ all time great. The only surprise would gave been if they didn't write something on him.

CatFromHue

Thornley's predicted team fro Saturday:

IRELAND (possible): R Kearney; A Trimble, B O’Driscoll (capt), G D’Arcy, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross or D Fitzpatrick, D O’Callaghan, D Ryan, S O’Brien, P O’Mahony, J Heaslip. Replacements: S Cronin, D Fitzpatrick or R Loughney, D Tuohy, C Henry, E Reddan, R O’Gara, F McFadden.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0606/1224317367150.html

Pretty much as expected.

The Irish team that lost in New Zealand in 2010:

IRELAND: Rob Kearney; Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll (capt), Gordon D'Arcy, Andrew Trimble; Ronan O'Gara, Tomas O'Leary; Cian Healy, Sean Cronin, Tony Buckley, Donncha O'Callaghan, Mick O'Driscoll, John Muldoon, David Wallace, Jamie Heaslip.

Jennings and Tuohy came on in the first half for the injured Muldoon and MOD.

The Irish team that lost to NZ in Dublin in 2010:

IRELAND: Rob Kearney; Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll (capt), Gordon D'Arcy, Luke Fitzgerald; John Sexton, Eoin Reddan; Cian Healy, Rory Best, Tom Court, Donncha O'Callaghan, Mick O'Driscoll, Stephen Ferris, David Wallace, Jamie Heaslip.

So it looks like Earls, Murray, whoever the tighthead prop is, Ryan, POM, and SOB will be playing their first game against the All Blacks.

totallegend

Looks like the Kiwis will have a few new caps on Saturday:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10810961

Haven't been watching enough Super 15 this season to really comment on Smith and Retallick, but Savea pops up fairly frequently on the highlights reels, looks dangerous.

GerM

totallegend wrote: »

Looks like the Kiwis will have a few new caps on Saturday:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10810961

Haven't been watching enough Super 15 this season to really comment on Smith and Retallick, but Savea pops up fairly frequently on the highlights reels, looks dangerous.

Retallick is a horse of a man. Scary to think he's only 21. He will replace Thorn in the long term. Massive work rate and even more powerful than BBBT. Savea is a freak. Over 100kg, lightning fast and a silky offload. Give him space and he will kill us. Just need to shut him down quickly.

Tox56

Given up caring about team announcements, whoever plays I will support and hope they win, and at the same time counting down the days 'till Kidney is gone.

The infuriating thing is no longer Kidney himself, but the attitude of the media towards him, as evidenced in the 'Thornley' thread.

fitz

Tox56 wrote: »

Given up caring about team announcements, whoever plays I will support and hope they win, and at the same time counting down the days 'till Kidney is gone.

The infuriating thing is no longer Kidney himself, but the attitude of the media towards him, as evidenced in the 'Thornley' thread.

I've been the same since getting back from the World Cup.
The feeling of devastation leaving the stadium after the Wales match was unreal. After that, I just gave up hoping we could consistently play to our potential, because I don't believe we ever will under Kidney. So, I'll give the players my full throated support, but I impatiently look forward to a time when we have a coach that can help them achieve the results their talent and potential deserve.

I'm frustrated at the media giving Kidney a free ride too, but I think it's just no-one wanting to dirty their bib.

Fishooks12

If he's right about DOC I'll be really pissed off. No complaints about the rest of the team really (maybe Reddan at 9)

But I really thought starting Tuohy with Ryan was an indicator of things to come.


What a troll

fitz

Fishooks12 wrote: »

If he's right about DOC I'll be really pissed off. No complaints about the rest of the team really (maybe Reddan at 9)

But I really thought starting Tuohy with Ryan was an indicator of things to come.


What a troll

I think our strongest team would as above but with Reddan, Tuohy and Henry starting and Murray, DOC and POM on the bench, but really...it doesn't matter.
Whoever gets picked is being sent out to play Kidney-ball, so it's really a moot point.

Quint2010

Yeah pretty predictable from Kidney and Thornley would never put up that team unless he was told it was true. Happy to see Earls back on the wing as he is our best available finisher. DOC's selection is just becoming a bad joke at this stage. Is he really that much of a better scrummager than Tuohy? Because that's the only area I can think of where he might be superior? And POM is now an openside is he? Much prefer to see SOB there and not be shunted about again.

Fishooks12

I looked at the article and it says POSSIBLE rather than the usual PROBABLE

So maybe all is not lost

Teferi

Ah yeah sure, why bother playing a Heineken Cup winning partnership together. That would only lead to chaos and madness.

Nothing against Murray mind, Reddan is just the clear and obvious choice to start.

fitz

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I looked at the article and it says POSSIBLE rather than the usual PROBABLE

So maybe all is not lost

Dude, you're only building yourself up for a let down!

Quint2010

The only positive thing I would say on the scrum half selection is that Reddan is a good man to have in reserve to quicken the game up.

Fishooks12

fitz wrote: »

Dude, you're only building yourself up for a let down!

It's all I can cling to at this stage!

Selection anyway is a pretty small part of the actual problem. It's the rugby he sends those lads out to play that has us under-performing

fitz

Fishooks12 wrote: »

It's all I can cling to at this stage!

Selection anyway is a pretty small part of the actual problem. It's the rugby he sends those lads out to play that has us under-performing

Exactly what I was saying...the few debatable selections pale in comparison to that problem.

JRant

Great stuff altogether, DOC to start, that just makes my blood boil. Now we'll get to watch 75 mins of him running around doing everything a lock is not supposed to do, like standing in midfield doing nothing or carrying for minus yardage. What we wont see is him hitting rucks consistently or stealing lineout ball.
What was the point in starting Touhy against the ba-ba's then?
HEC winning Outhalf partnership broken up again for the extremely over-rated Murray. I can just see it now, 55/60 mins on the clock, game in the balance and SHAZAM, DK will unleash the mighty ROG from the bench to rip it up, while moving Sexton to 12 cause thats where Sexton plays his best rugby!!
Touhy, Reddan and Henry would be best off staying at home for all the game time they'll get. I'd be amazed if any of them got more than 5 mins from the bench, barring injuries.
I thought if we went with Touhy and Reddan we'd have a better chance to beat the AB's but we're going to get murdered.
How long is left on the Kidney clock?

Quint2010

JRant wrote: »

Great stuff altogether, DOC to start, that just makes my blood boil. Now we'll get to watch 75 mins of him running around doing everything a lock is not supposed to do, like standing in midfield doing nothing or carrying for minus yardage. What we wont see is him hitting rucks consistently or stealing lineout ball.
What was the point in starting Touhy against the ba-ba's then?
HEC winning Outhalf partnership broken up again for the extremely over-rated Murray. I can just see it now, 55/60 mins on the clock, game in the balance and SHAZAM, DK will unleash the mighty ROG from the bench to rip it up, while moving Sexton to 12 cause thats where Sexton plays his best rugby!!
Touhy, Reddan and Henry would be best off staying at home for all the game time they'll get. I'd be amazed if any of them got more than 5 mins from the bench, barring injuries.
I thought if we went with Touhy and Reddan we'd have a better chance to beat the AB's but we're going to get murdered.
How long is left on the Kidney clock?

http://kidneyclock.net/

Fishooks12

JRant wrote: »

Great stuff altogether, DOC to start, that just makes my blood boil. Now we'll get to watch 75 mins of him running around doing everything a lock is not supposed to do, l

Harsh, just because DOC has been wrongly selected doesn't mean he's suddenly turned into a bad lock. He's still decent but there are far better options now

CatFromHue

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Harsh, just because DOC has been wrongly selected doesn't mean he's suddenly turned into a bad lock. He's still decent but there are far better options now

Munsters third choice lock was playing for the BaaBaas on the weekend their fourth will/could be playing for Ireland this weekend.

As you say there are better options.

Fishooks12

CatFromHue wrote: »

Munsters third choice lock was playing for the BaaBaas on the weekend their fourth will/could be playing for Ireland this weekend.

As you say there are better options.

DOC wasn't behind MOD this year tbf

JRant

Fishooks12 wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

Great stuff altogether, DOC to start, that just makes my blood boil. Now we'll get to watch 75 mins of him running around doing everything a lock is not supposed to do, l

Harsh, just because DOC has been wrongly selected doesn't mean he's suddenly turned into a bad lock. He's still decent but there are far better options now

He hasn't suddenly turned into one, it has been a gradual process over the last 2 seasons. It's nothing personal at all but it's as plain as day he is finished at the highest level. Even McGahan could see that but DK seems oblivious to the fact.