Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

JustinDee

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Both suggested teams look to have SOB at 6 and POM at 7

On this, neither of them play the fetcher role so its more like a selection of O'Brien would be as carrier and O'Malley as the in-yer-face hassler. Heaslip is the most prolific fetcher on the side over the past couple of seasons and he has been exemplary in this area.

Tox56

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I was actually going to suggest that team yesterday. It makes some sense as Trimble and D'Arcy don't deserve the start, and there were mentions at the end of the 6N that BOD would have to earn back his 13 jersey. Zebo would be a huge worry, but he is in better form than Trimble.

Reddan is in better form than Murray, but I feel that Murray will be better suited as our pack will likely be on the back-foot from the outset. Reddan behind a beaten pack is a disaster waiting to happen.

Both suggested teams look to have SOB at 6 and POM at 7. Of all the poor selection calls that Kidney is liable to make, this is the oddest imo.

So, Reddan is in better form than Murray but would admittedly be a worry on the back foot, so Murray should start.

And Zebo is in better form than Trimble, but would admittedly be a worry on the back foot/defending, so Zebo should start??

I understand your point and that a scrum-half is under more pressure, but if we are on the back foot in the pack (which I don't think is a certainty), the whole team will be and Zebo/Reddan could potentially be exposed in defence.

It's obviously more complex than that, you could argue for example that Murray would be slower at the breakdown and be under pressure there, but selecting Zebo and not selecting Reddan would be a contradiction in my opinion.

Having said all that, Murray gets some unfair criticism, and if used correctly (big if), Reddan could be effective off the bench. However, if this was hypothetically to be the team, I don't get the logic in selecting Zebo but not selecting Reddan.

thomond2006

Incidentally was BOD confirmed as team captain?

ed7890

This is a squad whose fringe selections are open to accusations of whimsy and bias. Kidney has included two uncapped players in Mike Sherry and Simon Zebo, both of them from Munster. He included one uncapped player in the 2012 Six Nations squad: Peter O’Mahony of Munster. He included one uncapped player in the RWC11 squad: Conor Murray. Guess who he plays for? Are Munster the only team producing good young players or giving them a run?

From the Demented Mole piece; aren't there other uncapped players in this squad like Fitzpartrick, Marshall, Locky and Wilkinson?

thomond2006

ed7890 wrote: »

From the Demented Mole piece; aren't there other uncapped players in this squad like Fitzpartrick, Marshall, Locky and Wilkinson?

Locky is capped.

irishbucsfan

JustinDee wrote: »

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Both suggested teams look to have SOB at 6 and POM at 7

On this, neither of them play the fetcher role so its more like a selection of O'Brien would be as carrier and O'Malley as the in-yer-face hassler. Heaslip is the most prolific fetcher on the side over the past couple of seasons and he has been exemplary in this area.

+1

It makes very little difference who is where in this situation. It's not like either of them are going to pose a breakdown threat off defensive set pieces. I'd imagine O'Mahoney covers more ground as well.

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Incidentally was BOD confirmed as team captain?

Presume so. Was he ever un-confirmed?

ed7890

thomond2006 wrote: »

Locky is capped.

Fair enough, I was just going by the IRFU site, which has him at 0 caps.

Even so, isn't it a bit misleading by the piece if there's 3 other lads who are uncapped.

WeeBushy

thomond2006 wrote: »

Incidentally was BOD confirmed as team captain?

Was POC not just named the temporary captain for the 6N in O'Driscoll's absence?

Scioch

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I was actually going to suggest that team yesterday . It makes some sense as Trimble and D'Arcy don't deserve the start, and there were mentions at the end of the 6N that BOD would have to earn back his 13 jersey. Zebo would be a huge worry, but he is in better form than Trimble.

Zebo on form though doesnt put him ahead of Trimble. He's hugely lacking in defence, I dont begrudge him travelling but he's nowhere near what he should be to be starting against NZ ahead of Trimble or Ferg.

Trimble hasnt been poor anyway nor has Darcy so I dont understand why neither deserves the start, Trimble has had a relatively good season playing at the highest level of club rugby. Same as a lot of other Ulster players but dont get the recognition for it. I wouldnt start anyone other than a fit Bowe ahead of Trimble to be honest.

Dont see any sense in starting Zebo in the first game.

JustinDee

ed7890 wrote: »

Fair enough, I was just going by the IRFU site, which has him at 0 caps

Nope. He's in with the correct number of intl caps: 2.
You might have been looking at the points scored figure, which is 0.

Fishooks12

If one of Zebo our Gilroy had even slightly better defense I think a more expansive coach would be questioning Trimble's position in the starting 15

danthefan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Incidentally was BOD confirmed as team captain?

Yes.

Teferi

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

and there were mentions at the end of the 6N that BOD would have to earn back his 13 jersey.

Fishooks12

I think there would have been some question marks about BOD getting the jersey straight away but considering how awesome he's been since he came back it's a non issue now

CatFromHue

ed7890 wrote: »

From the Demented Mole piece; aren't there other uncapped players in this squad like Fitzpartrick, Marshall, Locky and Wilkinson?

Fitzpatrick isn't capped so yeah The Mole has made a mistake here.

Hagz

How he left Madigan at home is beyond me. There's genuinely no valid reason for it. And to only take 29 players, with one full-back is insane. How are the media not jumping all over him??!

wp_rathead

? wrote:

Kearney, Ferg, Earls, BOD, Zebo, Sexton, Murray
Healy, Best, Fitzpatrick (tbc), Ryan, Tuohy, SOB, POM, Heaslip

you can tell that team is bollocks cause no DOC in Starting XV

bilston

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I think there would have been some question marks about BOD getting the jersey straight away but considering how awesome he's been since he came back it's a non issue now

Question marks, really? Kidney can't bring himself to drop DOC so do you honestly think he would have dropped BOD in a billion years? BOD was always going to walk back into the team on his return from injury no matter how Earls played in the 6Ns (and he played well).

Clegg

Saw this on Planet Rugby.

All Black XV v Ireland: Dagg Guildford CSmith SBWilliams Savea Carter ASmith Woodcock Hore OFranks Retallick SWhitelock Vito McCaw Read

All Blacks bench: Elliot, BFranks, AWilliams, Thomson, Weepu, Cruden, BSmith

Source Rugby World Twitter

duckysauce

Clegg wrote: »

Saw this on Planet Rugby.

All Black XV v Ireland: Dagg Guildford CSmith SBWilliams Savea Carter ASmith Woodcock Hore OFranks Retallick SWhitelock Vito McCaw Read

All Blacks bench: Elliot, BFranks, AWilliams, Thomson, Weepu, Cruden, BSmith

Source Rugby World Twitter

is Ma'a Nonu injured ?

irishbucsfan

Woodcock is having a poor season IMO. Im not worried about Fitz coming up against him if Ross doesn't make it, especially with that row behind him.

Scioch

Paddy Power have it NZ -17. Generous perhaps given the team we are likely to field ?

Clegg

I forgot to mention that this isn't the confirmed team.

It could just be this guys guess as to how New Zealand will line out.

Although I've just seen this exact same team named on another blog.

It could be legit.

Scioch

Clegg wrote: »

I forgot to mention that this isn't the confirmed team.

It could just be this guys guess as to how New Zealand will line out.

Although I've just seen this exact same team named on another blog.

It could be legit.

Yeah team has been announced.

Podge_irl

LordSmeg wrote: »

Paddy Power have it NZ -17. Generous perhaps given the team we are likely to field ?

I'd be pretty bloody disappointed if any team we fielded failed to beat that handicap first game up. Its the second and third tests I'd worry about getting messy.

CatFromHue

duckysauce wrote: »

is Ma'a Nonu injured ?

I don't think Nonu is playing very well. Also I think I read somewhere that he may also be rested a bit as he went to Japan after the RWC to play for a few months and then started the Super 15 with the Blues.

GerM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't think Nonu is playing very well. Also I think I read somewhere that he may also be rested a bit as he went to Japan after the RWC to play for a few months and then started the Super 15 with the Blues.

He has been very average whenever I've seen him. SBW's form has been blown out of proportion I think but he's certainly playing well and better than Nonu. That backline is superb. If Guildford can get his head right and deliver on his promise (and his recent form) it's absolute quality and in form from 10-15. Our backs will have to be on serious form to deal with them.

I can see NZ winning by 15-20. Might keep close in the first half but we'll tire and our bench will not be strong.

trackguy

Clegg wrote: »

Saw this on Planet Rugby.

All Black XV v Ireland: Dagg Guildford CSmith SBWilliams Savea Carter ASmith Woodcock Hore OFranks Retallick SWhitelock Vito McCaw Read

All Blacks bench: Elliot, BFranks, AWilliams, Thomson, Weepu, Cruden, BSmith

Source Rugby World Twitter

Going by that team, you'd hope Ireland could target scrum and lineout. It's the only hope really. Without Ross(?) and given the fact that we don't have a very good defensive lineout anymore, maybe it's just too slim a hope though.

What's the story with Ross? Is he still 'doubtful' or is he out altogether?

thomond2006

Sonny Bill has been playing very well this season apparently. However from the games I've seen, his insane offloading ability is as much a liability as an asset because he always look to offload and often offloads when he shouldn't, there's always a chance of an intercept or forcing a knock on when SBW is tackled.

Mealamu's absence is a big loss, never thought Hore was near his quality, although he's still a good hooker.