Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

trackguy

twinytwo wrote: »

assuming ross is fit im going for

Healy
best
ross
doc
ryan
pom*
sob
heaslip
reddan**
sexton
earls
darcy
drico
trimble
kearney

* im assuming that kidney is keeping sob at 7 for the forseeable future.

** please please please for the love of god kidney the country has been shafted enough recently without you starting murray. for once just once play reddan.

Just about spot on I'd say - that will be Kidney's team with the possible, depressing possibility of Murray starting.

That team, with Tuohy instead of DOC, would be my favoured team.

[Jackass]

What time (GMT / Irish time) is kick off on Saturday?

With the U-20's playing England on Friday, and Ireland v Croatia in the Euros on Sunday, it's going to be an epic weekend of sport!

Scioch

R Kearney, f McFadden, bod, k earls, Simon Zebo, j sexton, c Murray. C Healy, r best, d Fitz, d touhy, d Ryan, p o M, s o Brien, jheaslip

Subs s Cronin, r Loughney, d o Callaghan, k McLaughlin, e reddan, r o Gara, d cave

Scioch

Kidney realising we have nothing to lose it seems and conceding the first test.

Anatidaephobia

Seriously? If that's the team, I'm seriously worried about our defence on the wings.

Clegg

So Tuohy and Ryan in the 2nd row? Thats definitely the best pairing we have available to us right now. And Zebo to start too? I'm of the opinion that Gilroy and Kearney are better than him but I hope he does well. He's impressed all season so hopefully he cuts down the errors and has a good game.

Ross not playing is a blow but Fitzpatrick is decent enough at locking a scrum. If I'm reading it right then Earls is playing 12 and BOD at 13? I would imagine that they'll be switching positions quite regularly during the game though.

The only real fault I can find in that team is Murray starting over Reddan. But overall I'm intrigued by this team. Kidney has made progressive selections that I really didn't think he had the balls to make. No D'arcy on the bench either. He's really changed this team around. I'm actually excited about Saturdays game now.

I would have stuck Cave in at centre and Earls on the wing but Keith has been decent this year so he deserves his chance. It also gives us a bit of extra pace which we wouldn't have with a BOD/Cave partnership.

We'll still probably lose but it won't be with the same old team. We'll be able to see who can really cut it at international level and hopefully we'll be able to kick on and build a new team for next years 6 Nations.

Scioch

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

Seriously? If that's the team, I'm seriously worried about our defence on the wings.

Thats the team all right. From Michael Corcoran on twitter.

matthew8

Incredible how getting the starting shirt for the 3rd best province in Ireland propels guys like Zebo and Murray to starting. It could be a horror show for Zebo if they run at him. And moving Earls to 12? He was just recently looking good to me at 13 and now they move him to 12. Him and Ferg should be swapped.

Funkstard

Fack. Excited about the game now. He's finally gone and made some changes, the bollocks. Interesting!

profitius

LordSmeg wrote: »

Kidney realising we have nothing to lose it seems and conceding the first test.

McFadden and Zebo on the wings while D Kearney and Gilroy remain at home. You couldn't make it up. Cave should be a nailed on starter too with Earls on the wing..

Scioch

I wonder is he building for a crack at taking the final game by doing the experimenting in the first two ? Have to say I'm interested in seeing how it goes Saturday but this team isnt going to beat NZ.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Kidney with a curveball!!

Absolutely delighted with that team. Of course there will be the usual magnitude of bítching and moaning, but its great to see that the management are capable of rewarding form/selecting new players.

I'm worried about our wings, but we've selected our best units bar on the wings and (probably) at halfback.

CatFromHue

Has it been confirmed anywhere more official than twitter yet? Don't see anything on the IRFU website or stuff.co.nz yet.

If it is fair play! One thing for sure is that it's an exciting team and from the look of the players we're going to have a right cut at them. Brilliant!

Cpt_Blackbeard

Just before anyone complains about Earls at 12; Earls will be playing at 13, but BOD is just never willing to play in any other jersey.

Clegg

Only problem I have on that team is Murray starting over Reddan. Zebo is a wildcard in this selection. Gilroy and Kearney are more technically proficient than him and I'm interested to see how well he copes with the pressure. He's lucky to have been picked ahead of them but hopefully he impresses.

Earls is a better wing than centre but he's been decent at 13 this season so I suppose he deserves his chance.

DOC is on the bench though. I suppose we couldn't expect Kidney to completely break away from his old habits.

Fireball07

Wow...


That's good. I'm shocked but I like that team... Okay it's not perfect, but it's interesting.

The centre partnership is very interesting, D'Arcy hasn't played well for Ireland in a while, Wallace should have been brought but if BOD is at 12, and Earls goes to 13, that's a solid defensive pairing with potential for attack too. Okay McFadden and Zebo on the wings...maybe Kearney and Gilroy deserve it more but it's interesting. I wouldn't be too worried about McFadden defensively on the wing tbh and maybe Zebo might be caught, but think of the attacking potential! Zebo has real pace, one thing that could cause problems for NZ if he gets the ball in space. Murray/Reddan...I get most people wanted Reddan, I did too, but we can always hope Murray has a good game. I think Murray's best is better than Reddan's best...although consistency issues are a big problem, plus the fact that he makes silly mistakes. Still, we can hope.

As for the forwards- we've got Tuohy and Ryan, everybody wanted that. And I like the backrow. I know Henry deserves a shot, but POM is a very good player and won't let us down.



It's a big shock. I like it. But I suppose it will still boil down to gameplan.

Scioch

This mean Thornley doesnt have the inside track after all ?

CatFromHue

Yup it's official it's up on Stuff.co.nz!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7059476/Two-new-caps-in-Ireland-team-to-face-All-Blacks

This is like Christmas I'm now really excited for Saturday!

KJY

Locky and Cave ahead of Henry and Trimble is interesting. Henry I think would be a much better impact sub than McLaughlin

[Jackass]

why have earls in the centre and mcfadden on the wing? amazing. even cave in centre and earls on wing...it would be interesting if bod actually played the game as a 12, but i doubt it.

zebo straight in ahead of gilroy too...madness...

good second row though.

nail in coffin is murray starting. whats the point in trying to field an exciting backline and then starting murray...

Ardillaun

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

Seriously? If that's the team, I'm seriously worried about our defence on the wings.

And you weren't worried before?

Ardillaun

[Jackass] wrote: »

zebo straight in ahead of gilroy too...madness...

:

One might disagree but it's not wildly wrong - like for like I'd say. Gilroy is also an offensive threat with some defensive liabilities. D Kearney is worthy, no more than that. Trimble has never been a particularly creative player and his positional play has been poor.

irishbucsfan

Our wingers can't defend. That's the only problem I have. Like they are both massive liabilities in defense at international level. People will give out about Zebo but McFadden is equally worrying.

Apart from that I'm really excited by the teamsheet. However I am worried that it's all completely irrelevant. However perhaps Kidneys slavish obsession with territory might suit this game.

As for Earls and BOD, I don't think itll matter what jersey they're wearing. Earls will probably attack that outside channel with ball in hand and BOD will probably defend it at other times. Memories of 2005.

Kev McLoughlin on the bench. I'd imagine he'll come on with Reddan and we'll have a spell of controlled possession where we are at our most dangerous offensively, I suppose the question is how long can they maintain this and whether it'll be enough to give us a lead we can hold. And my biggest fear to our chances of winning is still whether or not Declan springs ROG for Sexton or a center.

thomond2006

IRELAND Team & Replacements (v New Zealand, Steinlager Series, Eden Park, Auckland, Saturday, June 9, kick-off 7.35pm local time/8.35am Irish time):

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster) *
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Ronan Loughney (Galwegians/Connacht) *
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/26643.php

Finally, FINALLY!!!!!! Some bloody rotation!

I'm worried about the wingers defence but in attack BOD and Earls together is very exciting.

DOC dropped.... *rubs eyes*

colman1212

I think earls and drico together at centre is a pretty exciting combination.
By picking zebo instead of trimble it shows that they are looking to go after this game. I also think earls defensive game has gotten a lot stronger in the last year or so, Be interesting to see how he goes against SBW! I'd prefer to see earls defending here than mcfadden or cave.

GisforGrenade

Looks weak.

dub_skav

Sweet Jesus, has Kidney completely lost the plot.

It's like the WC squad selection all over again, he has bowed to the pressure calling for new players / rotation and lumped in new players that don't deserve it while making some odd calls like Murray, Earls & BOD (neither of whom play 12).

I think Kidney knows he is under pressure and is going to use the rotation card to try and save himself.

I will be cheering for ireland, but I believe Kidney is giving them little chance.

Positivity
We wanted change, we got it.
That's probably the fastest back 3 we've fielded in International Rugby.
Second Rows can both carry ball.
POM stays at 6, and SOB stays at 7.
Cave gets the bench spot, played himself into consideration this season - form rewarded
I'm kind of excited about the pack. Tuohy to deliver on two seasons of top quality rugby please. POM to stay out of the silly stuff and just hit em where it hurts (scoreboard please!).
Fitzpatrick - entitled to contribute absolutely nothing to open play if he holds the set piece tight. Hold it tight, and everything else is a massive bonus.


Negativity
McLaughlin could not be further from the correct bench option. Henry coming on for POM or Heaslip after 60minutes could've been really interesting. A full swap around in the Back row, with us lining up as 6.SOB 7.Henry 8.POM/Heaslip
Earls, as discussed many times, never does well initially under a positional change, he takes time to get into gear. Does this mean he'll have played 11-15 for Ireland at this stage? Utility back is not what he wants to be!
Massively new tight five engine. Hoping for a good surprise here though.
Murray hasn't had a great season, Reddan/Sexton engineered some of the best rugby played this year. That being said, Reddan off the bench could be good if we've got much left in the tank in the last 20. (see Henry comment).
All the pace out wide isn't going to be used if we've got slow ball from the breakdown, and Earls, used to more space wider out, is going to carry ball back inside (jinks back to where the ball comes from ~ 100% of the time in open play).
ROG will come on with 15mins left, Sexton will move to 12, Earls to 11/14 and we'll become a narrower team even more so.

The biggest negativity though is the fact that while we might not always agree

Kearney
McFadden
x
Earls
Zebo

as in, almost our entire backline, has had questions raised over their defence this year. Against New Zealand.

Ah well, lets give it a lash, I'm happy enough with the team as far as a DK team goes.

irishbucsfan

Emmett Henry isn't fully fit. Also McLaughlin is an excellent bench option given Reddan is on the bench. What exactly are you suggesting Kidney should do?, bring on Reddan who excels with extended possession and also bring on Henry who excels off the ball? Not the most cohesive strategy.


Also I don't think Earls will have to do much adjusting. Hopefully he'll be outside BOD in attack. His pace might actually cause Smith problems. Also he does not cut inside 100% of the time, you've said this before and I've kept an eye out and it just doesn't seem to happen. He makes outside breaks quite often and the good thing is himself and Zebo read each other very well and will be an attacking threat, even more so with a world class center and out half beside them, which they haven't had before. Aren't we looking for combinations?


Also hopefully Sexton and Murray will communicate a bit better this time around. Both played poorly against Wales and Italy but against France they showed signs of comfort.


I'm much more excited than I thought I would be. Thanks for a positive selection Deccie. Now just pray the game plan and replacement strategy match it.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Emmett Henry isn't fully fit. Also McLaughlin is an excellent bench option given Reddan is on the bench. What exactly are you suggesting Kidney should do?, bring on Reddan who excels with extended possession and also bring on Henry who excels off the ball? Not the most cohesive strategy.


Also I don't think Earls will have to do much adjusting. Hopefully he'll be outside BOD in attack. His pace might actually cause Smith problems. Also he does not cut inside 100% of the time, you've said this before and I've kept an eye out and it just doesn't seem to happen. He makes outside breaks quite often and the good thing is himself and Zebo read each other very well and will be an attacking threat, even more so with a world class center and out half beside them, which they haven't had before. Aren't we looking for combinations?


Also hopefully Sexton and Murray will communicate a bit better this time around. Both played poorly against Wales and Italy but against France they showed signs of comfort.


I'm much more excited than I thought I would be. Thanks for a positive selection Deccie. Now just pray the game plan and replacement strategy match it.

Henry is a tight warrior! I'd love to see us play with him at 7, SOB at 6 and POM at 8. All guys who've played 7 this season. Imagine having 3 guys who've played openside flanker on an Irish team at the same time. It'd be brand new for us, but I'd imagine it would allow us to use a backline with some explosiveness, as we can allow pretty much our entire back row to be involved wholly in the tight, yet still pop up to carry the odd time.

McLaughlin is a workhorse, he won't let us down, but he won't add a dynamic (bar the lineout). He's effectively used as a dog-runner by Leinster. Crash a bad ball and get it back as fast as possible. He's definitely very good at it, but I still think that we'd have been better off with adding another poacher vs the dark artistes.

wrt Earls, perhaps he reads here too, because he has shown more inclination for the outside channel (when there is space), but his natural line is back inside. If there's any pressure whatsoever, he turns inside. It is actually helpful enough at first centre to re-align a drifting defence, but only if we secure quick ball instantly from the ensuing breakdown.