Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

totallegend

Otacon wrote: »

Happy for the lad. Hopefully he goes out there and gives a good account of himself.

+1. There's been a lot of talk on this board about the merits of the Zebo selection for this tour and some posters, intentionally or not, have twisted it into 'hating' and 'Munster-bashing'.

I think everyone who thinks Gilroy should have gone, myself included, wants nothing more than Zebo to go out tomorrow and show us all that he's there on merit and that he can hack it at this level. I, for one, would be extremely happy to be proved wrong on this one.

Teferi

Jaysus lads, you're all awful sensitive about Zebo and many have been using a superb amount of hyperbole when it comes to his defence. Very few of the decent posters have been "bashing", "hating" or "slating" Zebo.

What most posters have done have simply pointed out the facts:

Should he have been first choice for this tour: Probably not.
Is he out of his depth at this level at this current time: Unknown, but from what we have seen - probably, which is due to the next point...
Does he have big weaknesses to his game: Yes, he is not the finished article. His defence has been suspect this year and he seems to relish going forward more than doing the dirty work.

Now, most posters have gone onto say what's done is done and they hope he has a good game.

I'm much the same. I think he'll be out of his depth. I hope he proves me wrong and has the absolute game of his life. I even hope that he is the second coming of BOD.

I won't be getting dragged into another debate about the lad. It's tedious reading at this stage. What's done is done. Now it's up to him to prove himself.

fitz

And while criticism of his defence is warranted, Zebo isn't the selector. I think some people are interpreting the frustration with Kidney as hate for Zebo, which just isn't the case.
I hope we play a game that keeps us in their faces, and plays to the strengths of the guys on the pitch. If we can make use of Zebo's attacking potential, and he can hold on in defense, I'll be thrilled. Whether that'll happen or not, we'll see.

Fingers crossed.
Head says that it'll be Kidney-ball, and we'll be thumped....heart says maybe...just maybe...

Leslie91

irishbucsfan wrote: »

POCs technique, power and work rate off the ball outstrips all of those guys though.

And Gray isnt better than POC in the line out, he's just not. Makes a lot of silly errors, he is saved by his height. That's why Toner shows him up when they meet. POC is just an immensely good jumper and organiser.

This sums the POC argument up for me. I have yet to see a player who puts more in than POC end of story. The guy is relentless, I've never seen him knackered and behind play. While he is not that tall (saw Richie Gray make POC look small at Twickenham right before the HC final) his lineout ability/technique allows him compete and beat lads who are taller.

For me POC is the prototypical legend of a rugby player. Never less than 100% on the field, totally committed to the team and team mates and a pure gent off the field.

(and I'm from Leinster)

sydthebeat

Leslie91 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

POCs technique, power and work rate off the ball outstrips all of those guys though.

And Gray isnt better than POC in the line out, he's just not. Makes a lot of silly errors, he is saved by his height. That's why Toner shows him up when they meet. POC is just an immensely good jumper and organiser.

This sums the POC argument up for me. I have yet to see a player who puts more in than POC end of story. The guy is relentless, I've never seen him knackered and behind play. While he is not that tall (saw Richie Gray make POC look small at Twickenham right before the HC final) his lineout ability/technique allows him compete and beat lads who are taller.

For me POC is the prototypical legend of a rugby player. Never less than 100% on the field, totally committed to the team and team mates and a pure gent off the field.

(and I'm from Leinster)

Hes a AA hard ba$tard.....

The sight of him walking onto that pitch in paris in shorts and tee shirt, while all around him were quivering in their track suits, will always bring a wry proud smile to my face...

twinytwo

fitz wrote: »

And while criticism of his defence is warranted, Zebo isn't the selector. I think some people are interpreting the frustration with Kidney as hate for Zebo, which just isn't the case.
I hope we play a game that keeps us in their faces, and plays to the strengths of the guys on the pitch. If we can make use of Zebo's attacking potential, and he can hold on in defense, I'll be thrilled. Whether that'll happen or not, we'll see.

Fingers crossed.
Head says that it'll be Kidney-ball, and we'll be thumped....heart says maybe...just maybe...

Rog for last min winning drop goal.... anyone???:D

totallegend

fitz wrote: »

Head says that it'll be Kidney-ball, and we'll be thumped....heart says maybe...just maybe...

Well, I just hope Kidney connects the dots and we see a new approach to go with the new selections.

For all the talk about Zebo's pace, I would not be surprised if McFadden is the quickest guy in the squad right now and with Earls coming in for D'Arcy, this is a seriously mobile three-quarter line.

That's completely irrelevant if Kidney is still banging on about keeping it tight, playing for field position and 'earning the right' to go wide. If we're picking exciting guys in the backline, we need to give them the freakin' ball.

And, of course, if he tells Sexton to kick long, it's giving the ball to Savea, Guildford and Dagg. That is not a good idea at the best of times but with an unfamiliar defensive set-up, it's suicide.

irishbucsfan

twinytwo wrote: »

fitz wrote: »

And while criticism of his defence is warranted, Zebo isn't the selector. I think some people are interpreting the frustration with Kidney as hate for Zebo, which just isn't the case.
I hope we play a game that keeps us in their faces, and plays to the strengths of the guys on the pitch. If we can make use of Zebo's attacking potential, and he can hold on in defense, I'll be thrilled. Whether that'll happen or not, we'll see.

Fingers crossed.
Head says that it'll be Kidney-ball, and we'll be thumped....heart says maybe...just maybe...

Rog for last min winning drop goal.... anyone???:D

It'd be a defining moment worthy if the man's international career alright.

fitz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It'd be a defining moment worthy if the man's international career alright.

It'd be above international standard.

dtpc191991

fitz wrote: »

It'd be above international standard.

Oh crap here we go!

drunkcone

Before the ROG bashing/championing begins, just want to revert to the POC issue. I don't see the point in comparing him to Hines/Thorn in an Ireland thread. We don't have the locks with their individual skill sets and he's the best we've got at the minute. He's not on this tour and we're the weaker for it. Hope Tuohy goes well though. At least DK's gone for the form pick on that one!

Madworld

I feel kind of treasonous saying this. But I'm still going to let it out.

For these internationals I really want us to beat the All Blacks. But if we are to loose to them, I really hope we get hammered by 40-50 points as opposed to the valiant close defeat.

Its the only thing which could get rid of Kidney before the AI's and end this period of international stagnation.

Podge_irl

Kidney isn't going before the end of the 6N regardless of what happens in NZ. Pointless to pay him off with so little time left on his contract.

TonyTonga

Team for next week

1.Healy
2.Best
3.Ross .... if hes back
4.Touhy
5.Ryan
6.McLaughlin ...POM was anonymous
7.SOB
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
Sexton
11.Earls
12.Cave
13.O'Driscoll
14.Zebo
15.Kearney

Any chance we could send Murray home???

maddness

TonyTonga wrote: »

Team for next week

1.Healy
2.Best
3.Ross .... if hes back
4.Touhy
5.Ryan
6.McLaughlin ...POM was anonymous
7.SOB
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
Sexton
11.Earls
12.Cave
13.O'Driscoll
14.Zebo
15.Kearney

Any chance we could send Murray home???

Agree with all of the above but not Zebo. He couldn't tackle a wet week.

TonyTonga

maddness wrote: »

Agree with all of the above but not Zebo. He couldn't tackle a wet week.

I'd prefer him to get the experience because I dont really like Trimble. If only gilroy was there :rolleyes:

Time to let BOD get some bench time IMO.

1 Loughney
2 Cronin
3 Fitzpatrick
4 DOC
5 Ryan
6 McLaughlin
7 SOB
8 Heaslip
9 Reddan
10 Sexton
11 Earls
12 McFadden
13 Cave
14 Trimble
15 Kearney
16 Best
17 Wilkinson/Healy
18 Tuohy
19 POM
20 Marshall
21 ROG
22 BOD


Then we go final test (injuries excepted)

1. Wilkinson
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Tuohy
6. POM
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. ROG
11. Zebo
12. D'Arcy
13. Earls
14. Trimble
15. Kearney
16. Cronin
17. Loughney
18. McLaughlin
19. Marshall
20. Sexton
21. BOD
22. McFadden


(that's how to rotate a tour)

irishbucsfan

Earls/BOD next week again please. Looked a very strong combination in attack and defense.

I'd have

Healy, Best, Fitz/Ross, Tuohy, Ryan, Henry, SOB, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton, Zebo, Earls, BOD, Trimble, Kearney

Cronin, Loughney/Fitz, DOC, POM, Murray, ROG, McFadden

profitius

TonyTonga wrote: »

Team for next week

1.Healy
2.Best
3.Ross .... if hes back
4.Touhy
5.Ryan
6.McLaughlin ...POM was anonymous
7.SOB
8.Heaslip
9.Reddan
Sexton
11.Earls
12.Cave
13.O'Driscoll
14.Zebo
15.Kearney

Any chance we could send Murray home???

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

TonyTonga

profitius wrote: »

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

POM was anonymous and Murray was so bad.

drunkcone

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Earls/BOD next week again please. Looked a very strong combination in attack and defense.

O'Driscoll was. Earls wasn't. Directly at fault for one of Saveas trys. Not playing at centre regularly weakens his zone defence. That and he was panicking about getting burned on the outside.

All told I'd keep him for next week though. Changes needed on the wing.

irishbucsfan

drunkcone wrote: »

O'Driscoll was. Earls wasn't. Directly at fault for one of Saveas trys. Not playing at centre regularly weakens his zone defence. That and he was panicking about getting burned on the outside.

All told I'd keep him for next week though. Changes needed on the wing.

An error covering a counter attack from a kick. Not standard center play, where he was excellent.

Cave on the other hand came on and made a big error in defending his own line. McFadden is the worst of the three in that area. So for me Earls was very good.

profitius

TonyTonga wrote: »

POM was anonymous and Murray was so bad.

He wasn't anonymous. He won a turn over, rucked well, carried well and set up the try with a flick pass. He also made no mistakes. BTW, I thought it was SOB's worse game in a long while and I'm a SOB fan.

TonyTonga

Actually im beginning to think that D'arcy IS are our best option at 12.

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

An error covering a counter attack from a kick. Not standard center play, where he was excellent.

Cave on the other hand came on and made a big error in defending his own line. McFadden is the worst of the three in that area. So for me Earls was very good.

Take off those red tinted glasses!

God I hat match day threads!

TonyTonga

profitius wrote: »

He wasn't anonymous. He won a turn over, rucked well, carried well and set up the try with a flick pass. He also made no mistakes. BTW, I thought it was SOB's worse game in a long while and I'm a SOB fan.

SOB's worst game?

LOL. I think you've shown yourself up to be honest.

POM did nothing. He got a turnover after Healy did all the work.

bilston

TonyTonga wrote: »

POM was anonymous and Murray was so bad.

Did you say that POM was anonymous with a straight face? Along with Fitzpatrick I thought O'Mahony was a huge positive.

Fishooks12

TonyTonga wrote: »

Actually im beginning to think that D'arcy IS are our best option at 12.

Earls was better today at 12 than Darcy was in any of the 6 nations games

Clegg

Kidney needs to be questioned over his substitutions. Sexton was having a decent game but was subbed for ROG who proceeded to do absolutely feck all. Why not give Sexton and Reddan a chance to play together and why give ROG any gametime at all? He's not good enough anymore as we saw when he kicked away attacking ball in New Zealands 22.

Healy was probably Irelands best player. SOB had a good day at the breakdown, Sexton was good in defence and Ryan carried and tackled well. These are the only positives from our point of view.

Our outside defence was woeful and our backplay was appalling. We haven't had a proper backs coach in over a year.

drunkcone

irishbucsfan wrote: »

An error covering a counter attack from a kick. Not standard center play, where he was excellent.

Fair point. He did play well tbf. His hands were much sharper than I've seen before and he looked a threat in attack.