Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

profitius

Podge_irl wrote: »

Was up til 5am then made the rookie error of trying to grab a couple hours sleep before the game so I entirely slept through it.

It appears that may have been a good thing.

It was the better of the two options!

I'm going to stay in bed next weekend.

shootermacg

Ireland could have had any combination of players coached by any coach in world rugby and it would have made no difference, we were hockyed, the gulf between NZ and Ireland goes beyond selection and coaching. I for one enjoyed the best team in the world going about their business.

twinytwo

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Now maybe Kidney is holding us back some bit, but nothing like 32 points that we got hammered by today.

To have never beaten New Zealand in 25 attempts is pretty embarrassing at this stage.

I think we are overrated being honest. We think we are team that can win WC when in fact we cant.

dont watch much rugby i take it??:rolleyes:

Fishooks12

shootermacg wrote: »

Ireland could have had any combination of players coached by any coach in world rugby and it would have made no difference, we were hockyed, the gulf between NZ and Ireland goes beyond selection and coaching. I for one enjoyed the best team in the world going about their business.

The NZ first 15 were 30points beyond our 2nd string selection with an awful coach, that's an indication that if we were with the likes of Bowe, POC, Ross, Fitz and Ferris it would have been even less

With a decent coach on top of that we'd be more competitive and probably sneak a test

profitius

Its like Irish teams against French and English teams in the early days of the HEC. People were saying we'd never be as good as them and even beating them at home was a big achievement.

Things will change in international rugby too. Ireland are getting more competitive, you can see the new players coming through now. In a few years there'll be players for every position and the coach (top class coach hopefully) will just have to pick players to suit his style of play.

NZ were good today. Even their own fans were impressed by their performance. Thats the level Ireland has to reach. Ireland were poor but the players are there to play better.

GerM

Team for next test (bear with me on this...)

1. Healy
2. Best (Cronin after 50 minutes)
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Tuohy
6. McCarthy
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Darce
13. BOD
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

The team is picked, in my opinion, to go at NZ and give us a single, one off, all out chance to beat them and future be damned. The non beating of them ever bugs me. From those in NZ right now, this is the side I think is best equipped to do damage.

Front row generally picks itself but Cronin to come in with 30 minutes left and go berserk. He's come along a lot in terms of his tight play and reliability to the point where Strauss is far from assured his jersey. Best is good at the nuts and bolts but if NZ are tiring, we need to use Cronin who brings such impetus to proceedings.

Locks stay the same. Do or die for Tuohy. I'm happy to see him get another chance but if he turns in a similar display, I'm all for shelving him until injury provides another opportunity. He has the mobility and skills to take the game to NZ but has to deliver. Ryan is a no brainer.

Heaslip and SOB because they're the best in their positions in all facets. McCarthy is my call from left field. He's big, abrasive, mobile and offers a very good line out option. McLaughlin is similar but I think McCarthy provides a more abrasive option in close quarters. POM isn't ready yet and Henry would be my bench option to cover across the back row. He can contribute to the front five grunt work but Cronin and Healy will need to deliver at the breakdown as McCarthy is not a specialist.

Halfback is something we're crying out for. Wouldn't consider another combination. If Reddan isn't delivering though he should be hauled off.

Centres might be a step backwards in some people's eyes but these are the two generals of Irish rugby when it comes to centre play, like it or not. We looked wobbly in midfield today and unfamiliar. This was exposed as the game went on. Darce shuts teams down generally and is also a trojan at rucking. Few teams get much joy down his channel and he knows where he's to be. HEC knock out stages for Leinster, 35 tackles made, 1 missed. That's more than any other player. It's not a choice for the future but to combat NZ. He's the best option out there for that role still for me.

Back three picks itself for me. Earls restored to his best position but with license to roam and pop up in midfield. Trimble needs to come in and crunch a few tackles on whoever faces him. Shoot up and rearrange someone's vertebrae. Kearney gets the nod but if we had another 15, I'd let them start the following week. Madness travelling with one player in a specialist position.

Zico

That shambles is the death of the current set-up. Kidney and the whole back room team.

It has banged of stagnation since 2009. In truth Kidney was in the wash of his Irish wave, he was suited to the players of the Munster era and perhaps if he'd been in earlier with the guys he could make the best of we'd have won a few more Grand Slams.

His tactics have been a collision of styles that are 4 years too late. Irish rugby has moved on and so have a lot of players but there's a bit of Roy Hodgson about his selection this year.

trackguy

FireStart wrote: »

We seemed sluggish in our play. When we played Wales we gave them a few yards to attack before they were tackled. After that game we were told we had learned from that and the line speed would be faster. We were back to slow line speed today. So either we were sluggish/lacked match speed, learned nothing or frightened of them today.

The issue there is that NZ are so good
at flooding channels with numbers that it's impossible to simply blitz them.

They create situations where their attackers outnumber the defenders and it becomes impossible to apply any pressure.

This puts extraordinary demands on the defending team to be organised and with a lot of new combinations we were shown up slightly.

My issue is not with defence but with attack. We looked clueless in this facet AGAIN

Klunk_NZ

From a NZ perspective, we seem to have uncovered a Gem with our first decent halfback for 20 years. No longer do we have to see Piri Weepu scoffing a pie before finally releasing the ball to the backline with a slow mis-fired pass.

New Zealand had the opportunity to humiliate the Irish, and I mean humiliate. But instead we took off smith and our attack faltered. Ali Williams is not even Super Rugby level anymore and needs to go and make his end of career coin in Japan or something.

Sonny Bill is not on par with Ma' a and was the cause of several turnovers at ruck time. And why Hansen believes he can slot into wing when the subs come rolling in is beyond me.
Savea looks explosive on defence and attack and we may finally have a good winger to support Cory Jane when he returns from injury.
If we get rid on SBW, Wepu and Williams we will play to our potential.

I give the game a 6/10 for the AB's. Clinical 1st half besides SBW losing the ball at break down but old players in the reserve bench completely haulted the game and feel ripped off only watching 50 minutes of our near best team.

Kilkenny14

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

From a NZ perspective, we seem to have uncovered a Gem with our first decent halfback for 20 years. No longer do we have to see Piri Weepu scoffing a pie before finally releasing the ball to the backline with a slow mis-fired pass.

New Zealand had the opportunity to humiliate the Irish, and I mean humiliate. But instead we took off smith and our attack faltered. Ali Williams is not even Super Rugby level anymore and needs to go and make his end of career coin in Japan or something.

Sonny Bill is not on par with Ma' a and was the cause of several turnovers at ruck time. And why Hansen believes he can slot into wing when the subs come rolling in is beyond me.
Savea looks explosive on defence and attack and we may finally have a good winger to support Cory Jane when he returns from injury.
If we get rid on SBW, Wepu and Williams we will play to our potential.

I give the game a 6/10 for the AB's. Clinical 1st half besides SBW losing the ball at break down but old players in the reserve bench completely haulted the game and feel ripped off only watching 50 minutes of our near best team.

I am surprised you give the AB's a 6/10 - watching them play I would have given them 8/10. They all played very well.

Klunk_NZ

Seeing us disintegrate in the 2nd half like that makes me think South Africa may have our number in the 4 nations. I am interested to see the selections for game 2.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I think we have to just settle down a bit and accept our status as a second tier rugby nation, people often get too excited about Ireland and it confuses me. Jesus Christ lads I remember Fcuking Western Samoa Bating us around the park one night in Lansdowne! We have things a lot better now, we should savour this team before the inevitable future regression and bandwagoner withdrawal.

Klunk_NZ

No way!
Ireland Dominated the Northern Hemisphere competitions at club level and it can only be in national setup and selections that Ireland seem to get lost in the step up. I could easily see Ireland taking up the reigns as the best NH team since England in 2002/3. When BOD retires and a New coach comes Ireland have a massive chance for a complete culture change. I hope they take it.

jacothelad

GerM wrote: »

Team for next test (bear with me on this...)

1. Healy
2. Best (Cronin after 50 minutes)
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Tuohy
6. McCarthy
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Darce
13. BOD
14. Trimble
15. Kearney



Locks stay the same. Do or die for Tuohy. I'm happy to see him get another chance but if he turns in a similar display, I'm all for shelving him until injury provides another opportunity. He has the mobility and skills to take the game to NZ but has to deliver. Ryan is a no brainer.

How is he supposed to do this when he has to have his head buried in defensive rucks and mauls and never gets the ball in hand? He was excellent in the lineout and delivered in the scrums and defensively. He can't do everything when the best side in the world don't let you play rugby. The scrum pretty much creaked and cracked once he and Fitz went off. Another great call by Kidney.

Imagine the selection meeting,

"Well, Lads, here we are again. I've got this wizard wheeze to beat the ABs. I think we should play 3 of our back 5 out of position and select a complete beginner in the mix as well. Genius or what. No need to thank me."

Committee. ...Stunned silence. Nervous looks at each other.

Kidney. "Well that looks unanimous then. Does anyone know if Marcus is fit....just in case?""

twinytwo

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

From a NZ perspective, we seem to have uncovered a Gem with our first decent halfback for 20 years. No longer do we have to see Piri Weepu scoffing a pie before finally releasing the ball to the backline with a slow mis-fired pass.

New Zealand had the opportunity to humiliate the Irish, and I mean humiliate. But instead we took off smith and our attack faltered. Ali Williams is not even Super Rugby level anymore and needs to go and make his end of career coin in Japan or something.

Sonny Bill is not on par with Ma' a and was the cause of several turnovers at ruck time. And why Hansen believes he can slot into wing when the subs come rolling in is beyond me.
Savea looks explosive on defence and attack and we may finally have a good winger to support Cory Jane when he returns from injury.
If we get rid on SBW, Wepu and Williams we will play to our potential.

I give the game a 6/10 for the AB's. Clinical 1st half besides SBW losing the ball at break down but old players in the reserve bench completely haulted the game and feel ripped off only watching 50 minutes of our near best team.

twinytwo

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

Seeing us disintegrate in the 2nd half like that makes me think South Africa may have our number in the 4 nations. I am interested to see the selections for game 2.

At least you dont have to put up with the ****e that is kidney.

GerM

Paddy McAllister and Tony Buckley put on stand by.

Tox56

GerM wrote: »

Paddy McAllister and Tony Buckley put on stand by.

Who why WHAT??

TomLamp

This is a ****ing joke.

d-gal

Tox56 wrote: »

GerM wrote: »

Paddy McAllister and Tony Buckley put on stand by.

Who why WHAT??

Presume Healy and Ross no chance for 2nd test.

Earls also out of 2nd test

Kayless

GerM wrote: »

Paddy McAllister and Tony Buckley put on stand by.

are you for real?

next test Ire - 0 AB - 80+

funky penguin

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I think we have to just settle down a bit and accept our status as a second tier rugby nation, people often get too excited about Ireland and it confuses me. Jesus Christ lads I remember Fcuking Western Samoa Bating us around the park one night in Lansdowne! We have things a lot better now, we should savour this team before the inevitable future regression and bandwagoner withdrawal.

By George you're right!

Come on lads, let's accept our station, and never aim higher!

I feel better already!

desertcircus

Buckley? We'd be better off taking more or less anyone else. Hell, if Leinster think highly enough of Michael Bent to sign him for next season then ask the Hurricanes if he can be spared for a couple of weeks...

.ak

I'd rather Kilcoyne/McGrath and Moore.

.ak

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

No way!
Ireland Dominated the Northern Hemisphere competitions at club level and it can only be in national setup and selections that Ireland seem to get lost in the step up. I could easily see Ireland taking up the reigns as the best NH team since England in 2002/3. When BOD retires and a New coach comes Ireland have a massive chance for a complete culture change. I hope they take it.

+1 on this.

In terms of player for player we've got some of the best in the world. The only reason we have been underachieving is because of our coaching setup and how the IRFU behave.

Now, I am biased because I'm Irish, but realistically looking at player talent available, I think we should be 5th in the world. Basically behind the top 3 and France. That's where we should be aiming for, and then we need to look at OVER achieving and trying to break into that top 4. Then we can start developing a culture - you can see it in Leinster rugby, where it's not all about the one season, it's about keeping momentum and developing an ethos, that's the most valuable thing Joe Schmidt has brought to us and I have no doubt it's because of his Kiwi origins and how they threat the game there. We need to learn from it.

It says everything when the IRFU commented on JS ever becoming HC here and they said he was 'Not our kind of man'. The cultures are so vastly different and until that changes we'll probably remain a tier 2 country. How can we change it? We can't. The IRFU is ran by blazers with stubborn ideas and only those who share said stubborn ideas join the club. It's a rot and the only way it'll ever change is if we bring in a foreign coaching staff setup to breed some of that culture.

It'd be nice to think some of them will learn something when visiting NZ. I doubt it tho.

Fishooks12

Kayless wrote: »

are you for real?

next test Ire - 0 AB - 80+

Yes, the two of those lads probably siting in the stand is going to make the all blacks 50 points better off :rolleyes:

CatFromHue

Buckley had an excellent game the last time he played against NZ in NZ. He was one of Ireland's only performers on the day, himself and Trimble actually.

Just doing a quick look and he started 4 out of Sale's last 5 games and if I remember correctly he was getting his share of gametime up to the 6 Nations anyway.

I wouldn't be against him getting the nod ahead of McAllistair if we need a replacement.

danthefan

CatFromHue wrote: »

Buckley had an excellent game the last time he played against NZ in NZ. He was one of Ireland's only performers on the day, himself and Trimble actually.

Just doing a quick look and he started 4 out of Sale's last 5 games and if I remember correctly he was getting his share of gametime up to the 6 Nations anyway.

I wouldn't be against him getting the nod ahead of McAllistair if we need a replacement.

They don't play the same position.

CatFromHue

danthefan wrote: »

They don't play the same position.

They're all fatties up front to me :pac:

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

Buckley had an excellent game the last time he played against NZ in NZ. He was one of Ireland's only performers on the day, himself and Trimble actually.

Just doing a quick look and he started 4 out of Sale's last 5 games and if I remember correctly he was getting his share of gametime up to the 6 Nations anyway.

I wouldn't be against him getting the nod ahead of McAllistair if we need a replacement.

I admit I haven't seen many Sale games recently, but of the few I have seen Buckley play, he was destroyed in the scrums and anonymous around the field.

Maybe he's improved, this was around the time before the 6 nations, but it is worrying he has to even be considered.