Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Quint2010

Farrelly described Sexton's kick for McFadden's try " sublime" while Neil Francis described it as an "agricultural hoof down-field"...:)

JustinDee

Quint2010 wrote: »

Farrelly described Sexton's kick for McFadden's try " sublime" while Neil Francis described it as and "agricultural hoof down-field"...:)

It was a top kick, exploiting a rare gap in New Zealand's defence.

Kilkenny14

I agree on the idea of using the remaining 6 nations matches this year to blood new players but the pressure on Kidney required him to pick his full strength team. What the team really needs is a new attack coach to shape an attacking strategy we can adopt with the players we have.

Also I don't see why people want O'Gara to start - it's clear that Sexton is the best outhalf we have now with players like Madigan and Paddy Jackson our future.

JustinDee

Kilkenny14 wrote: »

I agree on the idea of using the remaining 6 nations matches this year to blood new players but the pressure on Kidney required him to pick his full strength team

Rankings this year determine RWC 2015 seedings so results still mattered.

irishbucsfan

Surely there aren't people out there who want O'Gara to start?

irishbucsfan

Quint2010 wrote: »

Farrelly described Sexton's kick for McFadden's try " sublime" while Neil Francis described it as and "agricultural hoof down-field"...:)

I think Ward is going to have to bow down to Francis' knowledge of the 5/8th position!

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Or Niall Morris

Ah here now, surely you couldn't expect the IRFU to go finding a player who's plying their trade a million miles away from the Emerald Isle? Surely that's just asking too much IBF!

.ak

maddragon wrote: »

... England did the same to us in March. We beat them well last year. Where is our consistency. Management and coaching problem.

The was rumour and and speculation that Reddan threw out the game-play book that day and played a game he was more comfortable. If it was true it'd explain a lot, we haven't played a flat game like that since, and Reddan hasn't been given many opportunities either - it would explain any further love loss between Reddan and Kidney.

True or not, one thing that is fact: Reddan and Sexton started that game, also started the Australia game, and Reddan and Sexton have looked good in the rare glimpses we've seen them together since.

BoardsMember

.ak wrote: »

The was rumour and and speculation that Reddan threw out the game-play book that day and played a game he was more comfortable. If it was true it'd explain a lot, we haven't played a flat game like that since, and Reddan hasn't been given many opportunities either - it would explain any further love loss between Reddan and Kidney.

True or not, one thing that is fact: Reddan and Sexton started that game, also started the Australia game, and Reddan and Sexton have looked good in the rare glimpses we've seen them together since.

Dont know about that rumour, sure Reddan wasn't getting a look in before that too often, it took 2 years for Kidney to get rid of a seriously out of form TOL. I think the Kidney/Reddan thing predates the England game last year.

FireStart

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'd agree, but in the case of Buckley I really can't see the benefit of bringing guys who aren't ready for HC level yet. Plus he's only on stand by

The Duffy call up baffles me. Why not Dave Kearney? Or even Andrew Conway

this is what should have been done in the first place instead of picking wingers who can play centre and full back and picking centres who can kick and then putting them on the wing.

I'd imagine people were waiting for him to pick Felix Jones so Kidney could get another bashing

irishbucsfan

Reddan and Kidneys thing goes back way further than that supposedly, back to the Wasps move is where it originated.

I find it hard to believe that personal issues would have that big a bearing. I think Kidney also prefers the Murray style. Hence TOL over Stringer for Munster etc.

Raisins

Quint2010 wrote: »

Farrelly described Sexton's kick for McFadden's try " sublime" while Neil Francis described it as an "agricultural hoof down-field"...:)

The good cop/ bad cop routine as usual in the Independent. Neil Francis is a terrible writer. He can't go two sentences without making some stupid entirely unhelpful analogy.

BoardsMember

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think Kidney also prefers the Murray style type of game.

I fixed that for you. Murray has no "style". He's so slow to the breakdown it is painful, and then he decides what to do, and then he passes it with modest speed to ball carriers that are standing still because they don't know when to start their run because they dont know when he might take it upon himself to pass. Contrasting that with Reddan is just so frustrating.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Reddan and Kidneys thing goes back way further than that supposedly, back to the Wasps move is where it originated.

I find it hard to believe that personal issues would have that big a bearing. I think Kidney also prefers the Murray style. Hence TOL over Stringer for Munster etc.

Are you sure it wasn't Gaffney he had a problem with? Gaffney was the Munster coach when Reddan moved to Wasps for the 05/06 season. Kidney was with Leinster that year, and prior to that with Ireland.

You could be right about the style though!

Hagz

BoardsMember wrote: »

ball carriers that are standing still because they don't know when to start their run because they dont know when he might take it upon himself to pass.

In fairness, I don't think you can blame Murray for static runners. I think regardless of who the scrum half is, players like POC will still take the ball standing.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Surely there aren't people out there who want O'Gara to start?

See the comment on Jonathan Sexton in the player ratings:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10812197

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

See the comment on Jonathan Sexton in the player ratings:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10812197

Ultimate facepalm.

.ak

BoardsMember wrote: »

Dont know about that rumour, sure Reddan wasn't getting a look in before that too often, it took 2 years for Kidney to get rid of a seriously out of form TOL. I think the Kidney/Reddan thing predates the England game last year.

Yeah I agree there was issues before this.. but that kinda backs up that rumour. Reddan was getting on and might've thought 'Feck it, last time I get to pull something like this, might get picked again for it.'

It was the best Irish performance under Kidney's reign, no denying that, and Reddan had a huge hand in it, delivering quick ball on platter to the strike runners.

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

See the comment on Jonathan Sexton in the player ratings:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10812197

I highly doubt the writers for that rag bother even watching NH rugby.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

I highly doubt the writers for that rag bother even watching NH rugby.

Why would they need to watch NH rugby to rate players in a match between NZ & Ireland?

Anyway, my response was to a post that said that no one would think O'Gara should start

Tox56

It's Chris Rattue again! The same one taking any opportunity to have a dig at Ireland in that earlier article, what a clown

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Why would they need to watch NH rugby to rate players in a match between NZ & Ireland?

They wouldn't. They would need to watch it to realise how idiotic it would be to put forth ROG as a candidate to start. However, he is a well known name down there so they just threw it in. Just like the banal platitudes BOD receives every time we go to NZ.

And I'm sure most of NZ would want ROG to start.

jm08

Tox56 wrote: »

It's Chris Rattue again! The same one taking any opportunity to have a dig at Ireland in that earlier article, what a clown

He has a few digs at some of the ABs as well in fairness!

Tox56

Just reading his rating of the NZ players, he thought NZ had a definite upper-hand in the scrum and only gave Fitzpatrick a 5

He also gave an 8 for McCaw for being the greatest loose forward of his generation, nothing to do with his actual performance (he even admitted he made several errors)

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Reddan and Kidneys thing goes back way further than that supposedly, back to the Wasps move is where it originated.

I find it hard to believe that personal issues would have that big a bearing. I think Kidney also prefers the Murray style. Hence TOL over Stringer for Munster etc.

Are you sure it wasn't Gaffney he had a problem with? Gaffney was the Munster coach when Reddan moved to Wasps for the 05/06 season. Kidney was with Leinster that year, and prior to that with Ireland.

You could be right about the style though!

I heard it was Kidney from a pretty (imo) infallible source. Although I don't know any of the details tbh.

I dont think its the reason he doesn't play though tbh, I think its for rugby reasons.

molloyjh

fitz wrote: »

Anyone read Kidney's comments in Hugh Farrelly's piece from today's Indo?
Talk about finger-pointing at anyone but yourself...
The guy is delusional.

There's some awful rubbish in that article. Especially the whole "making a team" and needing time to "build up that experience". Just have a look at the team he picked for the Italy game (when we had everybody fully fit bar Wally & BOD). Where exactly is lacking experience there? How is he building anything!? How much time does he really need, because if 2.5 years isn't enough then what is!?

As for the whole "we'd have sacrifice other things to make a success of this tour" lark, well that's just hilarious. Someone mentioned clutching at straws earlier.... :rolleyes:

Stev_o

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I heard it was Kidney from a pretty (imo) infallible source. Although I don't know any of the details tbh.

I dont think its the reason he doesn't play though tbh, I think its for rugby reasons.

Id imagine it's because he looks big abrasive SH's who can contribute in defense. Doesn't say much if your first priority of a SH is his defending.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

They wouldn't. They would need to watch it to realise how idiotic it would be to put forth ROG as a candidate to start. However, he is a well known name down there so they just threw it in. Just like the banal platitudes BOD receives every time we go to NZ.

And I'm sure most of NZ would want ROG to start.

They rated O'Gara as well (he did play). They didn't rate him any better than Sexton and more than likely the NZ public couldn't care less who starts and the outcome won't be in doubt.

GerM

jm08 wrote: »

They rated O'Gara as well (he did play). They didn't rate him any better than Sexton and more than likely the NZ public couldn't care less who starts and the outcome won't be in doubt.

NZ is one place where ROG is not and has never been particularly rated and I'd be shocked if they didn't think ROG starting would be handy. As the famous comment in 2005: "Kiwis know their rugby and they know a lemon when they see one". It was a similar story 2 years ago after the 66-28 hammering and Sexton's first NZ appearance a few days later against the Maoris. They absolutely took him to pieces on that Lions tour and it has been one way traffic since, undeservedly as he went on to produce his best rugby in the next 2-3 years but the damage was done.

Fishooks12

jm08 wrote: »

They rated O'Gara as well (he did play). They didn't rate him any better than Sexton and more than likely the NZ public couldn't care less who starts and the outcome won't be in doubt.

You're rather subtly farting around the point that you think ROG should start next week. Why not just come out and say it?