Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Tox56

Slightly odd to announce the teams at 6 AM New Zealand time, still, doesn't get any easier

danthefan

Virtually the same team. They really want to murder us.

CatFromHue

danthefan wrote: »

Virtually the same team. They really want to murder us.

I don't usually pay attention to any off field reasons for a team to do well but I think in this case with the game being in Christchurch it will have an effect. I think they're going to be very hyped up for this one!

JRant

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

To be honest very few players on our team look International standard under DK at the moment. He has possibly the best 6 & 7 in European rugby with ball in hand and he wouldn't know how to use them if it crawled outta his arse. He also has the best 10 in the NH looking like an AiL player, hell even BOD looks very ordinary under him. It's very easy to say this lad isn't good enough or that lad shouldn't of started etc but the crux of the matter is we are being terrible coached.

At the end of the day, that's just excuse making. There are players there that, regardless of the coaching setup, should be able to make an impact at this level. The fact of the matter is that players aren't stepping up to the plate at international level. Every problem cannot be lumped on the coach - he's not the one missing tackles and spurning chances.

Well taking your point to its logical conclusion , if players are not stepping up to the plate they shouldn't be picked. If they are still being picked, who's responsible? I'd imagine that's under the remit of the coach/management, unless of course the players pick the team as well.
Your right in saying that it's not the coach missing tackles or spurning chance but it is 100% his responsibility.

JRant

Fishooks12 wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

To be honest very few players on our team look International standard under DK at the moment. He has possibly the best 6 & 7 in European rugby with ball in hand and he wouldn't know how to use them if it crawled outta his arse. He also has the best 10 in the NH looking like an AiL player, hell even BOD looks very ordinary under him. It's very easy to say this lad isn't good enough or that lad shouldn't of started etc but the crux of the matter is we are being terrible coached.

I agree Kidney is making players back but I also think you're exaggerating a tad! Sexton looking like an AIL player for example! He was brilliant during the six nations.

It's easy to see that Murray isn't up to the standard requires to be a good international, same applies to McFadden IMO.

Maybe AiL was a little OTT but my overall point still stands. We are a very ordinary side at the moment yet take the same bunch of players away from this irish set up and suddenly they can play rugby again!!

trackguy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think that interview where Sexton talked about Kidneys possession based philosophy really underlined where a lot of these players are having problems.

I missed this - what did he say?

stephen_n

Earls out with a torn Pectoral muscle

CatFromHue

stephen_n wrote: »

Earls out with a torn Pectoral muscle

out of what? the tour?

Gelio

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

At the end of the day, that's just excuse making. There are players there that, regardless of the coaching setup, should be able to make an impact at this level. The fact of the matter is that players aren't stepping up to the plate at international level. Every problem cannot be lumped on the coach - he's not the one missing tackles and spurning chances.

That's a very simplistic view. The coaching setup decides tactics, defence patterns and is ment to help gel the team together into one unit. If these things are going wrong then even the best IV in the world is going to look weak.

For example if a team has a centre who is weak in defence then perhaps a drift defence would be better than a pressure defence to prevent the opposition from targeting this player. I'd put my money on a weaker team that is well drilled than a strong group of individuals that don't gel together.

Clearlier

CatFromHue wrote: »

For me it's not as clear cut as that. Players have to take responsibility for their actions too.

Take Rob Kearney for example. He is by far the best full back we have available but he is caught out in defence too regularly for my liking. For Savea's second try he was faced in a one on one with him (he actually had Murray covering inside him so it wasn't a complete one on one). Savea went over far far too easily in that situation. Not only did Kearney tackle too high but he led with the wrong shoulder. Kearney didn't cover himself in glory for Savea's third try either.

These in my opinion were both individual errors from one of our better players. The coaching staff can't do a whole lot about that.

Kidney would get ripped to shreds if he dropped Kearney and the team could would be weakened to some degree without him in it.

I agree about our style of play with you though.

Kearney's defence has always been a bit mixed. Well actually, it was non-existent and now it's weak in certain areas in particular the head on tackle. He almost never dominates a tackle despite being remarkably strong for his size and he likes to do bear hug tackles even when they're not appropriate such as for the 2nd try and I think you're being generous about the 3rd try. It's worth noting though that McFadden went AWOL for the 2nd try and if Earls had defended better earlier on in the move (he stood a step off the defensive line and allowed an offload he could have snuffed out) he wouldn't have had the opportunity to make such a mess of defending the 3rd try.

The thing that worried me most about Kearney's performance most is that he looked devoid of confidence, he was making poor decisions in attack and not challenging for high balls like he normally does.

With Murray in the side it's difficult to see the Irish backline getting the ball quickly enough to score tries. With Earls out and BOD back to 13 our defence should improve though. Trimble could add a little bit of punch that we were missing too but fundamentally for me Murray doesn't clear the ball away from the breakdown quickly enough and that gives New Zealand too much time to re-align during multi-phase attacks.

profitius

Kearney is an instinctive player. When choosing what to do in defense or where to run in attack he doesn't always make the correct decisions. I don't know how many times I've seen him gather the ball and get clobbered in a tackle by running straight into someone. His problem is deciding what to do, who to go for and how to tackle them.

Having said that he did make some good tackles against NZ and is still Irelands best 15 by a long way.

The back 3 were the worst back 3 defensively I have seen playing for Ireland. McFadden in fairness isn't normally a winger and that didn't help Kearney either. Just as well they didn't attack much down Zebos wing.

armchaircoach

Are we expecting a team announcement at some time tonight? It was on Thursday last week.

If not could we read into it that they are giving injuries as long as possible before calling a team.

Also no thornley prediction this week?

Taco Corp

armchaircoach wrote: »

Are we expecting a team announcement at some time tonight? It was on Thursday last week.

If not could we read into it that they are giving injuries as long as possible before calling a team.

Also no thornley prediction this week?

Its being announced at 2am

armchaircoach

I thought it was, looks like there's just less buzz about it this week. Not as many people getting excited.

Fishooks12

armchaircoach wrote: »

I thought it was, looks like there's just less buzz about it this week. Not as many people getting excited.

Who was getting excited last week? Most people expected DOC and Darcy to be nailed on in the starting 15

armchaircoach

With no new news on Healy/Sexton i'm gonna go with

1) Healy
2) Ross
3) Fitzpatrick
4) Ryan
5) Touhy (Hopefull given another go)
6) SOB
7) Henry (We've experimented with backs, why not with backrow)
8) Heaslip
9) Redden (Faster ball, sacraficing Murrays defence work here)
10) Sexton
11) Zebo (If Earls was fit he'd be here)
12) D'Arcy (Kidney will revert to seasoned warrior)
13) BOD
14) Trimble (job is to hit Savea hard, very hard)
15) Kearney

armchaircoach

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Who was getting excited last week? Most people expected DOC and Darcy to be nailed on in the starting 15

More people were up and discussing it all day. I had to check to see if it was being announced tonight because of the lack of banter/discussion going on about what the team would be today.

Fishooks12

armchaircoach wrote: »

With no new news on Healy/Sexton i'm gonna go with

1) Healy
2) Ross
3) Fitzpatrick
4) Ryan
5) Touhy (Hopefull given another go)
6) SOB
7) Henry (We've experimented with backs, why not with backrow)
8) Heaslip
9) Redden (Faster ball, sacraficing Murrays defence work here)
10) Sexton
11) Zebo (If Earls was fit he'd be here)
12) D'Arcy (Kidney will revert to seasoned warrior)
13) BOD
14) Trimble (job is to hit Savea hard, very hard)
15) Kearney

I'd like to see that team

But If Earls were fit he'd be at 12 with Zebo on the wing

armchaircoach

well what I'm aiming at with that selection is to shore up the defence all across the line, so that involves getting D'arcy and Trimble on with Earls moving to the wing as he's a better defender than Zebo.

But for this to work, I would expect both Trimble and Earls to spend a lot of the time coming infield and looking to exploit gaps there. They could'nt just stay out wide and hope to live off scraps.

Podge_irl

Kearney
McFadden
BOD
D'Arcy
Trimble
Sexton
Murray
Heaslip
SOB
McLaughlin
Ryan
Tuohy
Ross
Best
Healy

Bloody Murray again. And McF is a very lucky boy (well lucky that Kidney brought a ridiculously small squad and DK and Gilroy aren't there to take his place)

matthew8

McFadden has done nothing to earn the 14 shirt. Interesting to see Kev in, wasn't expecting that. Maybe Kidney's trying to getting the HC winning back row together.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Some pretty big decisions.

Touhy is retained despite a no-show last week. POM on the other hand, had a better game, but is dropped for a man who missed out on the original touring squad. Very strange decision as both POM and Henry have had better seasons. Kidney continues his love for a physical scrum-half and selects Murray. He had a decent game last week, but has a lot to prove/improve. Reddan would have been a fairer choice.

D'Arcy comes straight back into the international side despite being consistently bad at test level for a number of seasons. Cave would have been a much better and more progressive choice in the centre. McFadden retains his place despite his howler last week. How bad does he have to be whenever he starts before Kidney realises that he is no more than a passable HEC player? Fitzpatrick on the bench is another poor call.

The people have gotten what they want. We're fielding a team of Leinster HEC winners. If we don't win the game, Murray will be singled out for being the reason why Leinster's HEC form hasn't tranlated to a first win against the All Blacks.

armchaircoach

does anyone have the full 22?

Also where are you guys getting the teams from, is it someone on twitter, or is there a video somewhere?

Scioch

matthew8 wrote: »

McFadden has done nothing to earn the 14 shirt. Interesting to see Kev in, wasn't expecting that. Maybe Kidney's trying to getting the HC winning back row together.

Should be trying to get the entire team out there. I know there's 10/15 as it is but Murray is the wrong sized cog to get it running smoothly.

Scioch

-subs, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, O'Callaghan, O'Mahony, Reddan, O'Gara, Zebo

Michael Corcoron on twitter is the man with his finger on the pulse.

armchaircoach

LordSmeg wrote: »

-subs, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, O'Callaghan, O'Mahony, Reddan, O'Gara, Zebo

Michael Corcoron on twitter is the man with his finger on the pulse.

Cheers,

Podge_irl

I'd be more likely to single out Kidney but its silly to suggest that the scrum half isn't completely vital to the way Leinster play rugby.

Cpt_Blackbeard

LordSmeg wrote: »

Should be trying to get the entire team out there. I know there's 10/15 as it is but Murray is the wrong sized cog to get it running smoothly.

Before the game has begun, Murray is already being singled out as the reason why the backs aren't firing. :rolleyes:

armchaircoach

So the big question, what the F do we do if Kearney gets a knock? Has anyone in that 22 played fullback? maybe Trimble at some stage?

matthew8

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Before the game has begun, Murray is already being singled out as the reason why the backs aren't firing. :rolleyes:

No, he's being singled out for the previous games.