Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

duckysauce

liammur wrote: »

Well after watching that soccer, completely outclassed, let's hope for better from the rugby, and with 10 leinster players in, there really can be no excuses.

whats that meant to mean??? fck

DEFTLEFTHAND

Did anyone here Andy Hadens comments about Ireland.

He said and I quote, 'The All Blacks are sold short with these kind of teams turning up here, its not good enough. We need to have good contests down here and the reason Eden Park was not sold out is because the opposition are not rated.'

He made these comments on an NZ sports panel show. It was reported on the back of the sports page in Thursdays Independent.

Wouldn't you just love to stuff them after hearing something like that, they really are an arrogant bunch. :mad:

maddragon

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Did anyone here Andy Hadens comments about Ireland.

He said and I quote, 'The All Blacks are sold short with these kind of teams turning up here, its not good enough. We need to have good contests down here and the reason Eden Park was not sold out is because the opposition are not rated.'

He made these comments on an NZ sports panel show. It was reported on the back of the sports page in Thursdays Independent.

Wouldn't you just love to stuff them after hearing something like that, they really are an arrogant bunch. :mad:

Sorry, but he's right and it's Kidney's fault. Can't imagine Deccy motivating the lads with that either because he has the charisma of a lone sock lying behind the radiator of a dormitory in an all male boarding school.

CatFromHue

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Did anyone here Andy Hadens comments about Ireland.

He said and I quote, 'The All Blacks are sold short with these kind of teams turning up here, its not good enough. We need to have good contests down here and the reason Eden Park was not sold out is because the opposition are not rated.'

He made these comments on an NZ sports panel show. It was reported on the back of the sports page in Thursdays Independent.

Wouldn't you just love to stuff them after hearing something like that, they really are an arrogant bunch. :mad:

Of course they're incredibly irritating but how would you feel if in November the IRB arranged a three test series for us against Japan/Fiji/USA. They're all about the same distance on the IRB rankings from us as we are from NZ.

It would be glorious to win a game and the series down there but the game last Sat was pretty much done as a contest at the 26min mark.

duckysauce

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Did anyone here Andy Hadens comments about Ireland.

He said and I quote, 'The All Blacks are sold short with these kind of teams turning up here, its not good enough. We need to have good contests down here and the reason Eden Park was not sold out is because the opposition are not rated.'

He made these comments on an NZ sports panel show. It was reported on the back of the sports page in Thursdays Independent.

Wouldn't you just love to stuff them after hearing something like that, they really are an arrogant bunch. :mad:

it will get worse at the weekend as it's the first match in Christchurch since the quake ,,, the damage will be scary ..

CatFromHue

duckysauce wrote: »

it will get worse at the weekend as it's the first match in Christchurch since the quake ,,, the damage will be scary ..

:eek::eek:

:pac:

Swiwi

Deleted User wrote: »

trolling does not mean "not agreeing with groupthink and as a result not posting anything that is different to what is already said".

Just because people are new, and don't agree with us, but provide a different viewpoint, doesn't make them trolls!

Come on seeing_ie, why don't you tell us about your rugby-playing experience, and why your views are the only ones that matter. Personally, played rugby all through school (2nd-five, fullback), represented Canterbury at junior levels, and watch my fair share of rugby both sides of the equator. I hardly think if I disagree with an opinion of yours that makes me a troll. The whole point of these forums is to debate tactics & players, not have a 1-sided viewpoint. If you want that, set up your own blog, and if it's any good, people will read it.

Swiwi

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Did anyone here Andy Hadens comments about Ireland.

He said and I quote, 'The All Blacks are sold short with these kind of teams turning up here, its not good enough. We need to have good contests down here and the reason Eden Park was not sold out is because the opposition are not rated.'

He made these comments on an NZ sports panel show. It was reported on the back of the sports page in Thursdays Independent.

Wouldn't you just love to stuff them after hearing something like that, they really are an arrogant bunch. :mad:

Andy Haden has always been outspoken, and he's not well-enamoured of most Kiwis. He once suggested the Crusaders had a quota system for "brown" players, and that was the secret to their success. Went down like a lead balloon in NZ. Don't tar all Kiwis with the same brush, please.

Swiwi

JustinDee wrote: »

Attendances have not been too shiny in New Zealand over the past 6-7 years for international, super or provincial rugby. People there just don't have the cash demanded of them for a full season of egg-chasing.

Or the motivation to be in the cold. Unlike here in Ireland, where games are played in the afternoon, it's all at night-time in NZ...so we can watch it up north. TV viewing is up quite a lot this year, but not attendance. One thing that is definitely much better in the NH is tradition & atmosphere at games...have been to Musgrave, Galway's rugby park, RDS, Aviva & Croke, and enjoyed them all.

Swiwi

molloyjh wrote: »

Tight five is as expected. I just hope Healy really is fit. Don't want to see him getting flogged. Delighted for Locky as he's worked hard this season, but personally would have picked Henry at 7 and SOB at 6.

Murray at SH is just the wrong decision. For all Captains bemoaning the blame game even he admits it himself. People reckon his passing hasn't been slow but if you watch the speed he puts on the ball it actually is pretty slow. And you don't pick your SH primarily for defensive reasons.

Darce was always going to be 12 once Earls was injured. What's most frustrating about this is that the Earls at 12 move was obviously to give him more experience at 13 so that he can take over from BOD but we've absolutely no replacement for Darce long-term, or even short-term. It's plainly ridiculous as BOD is still worth his place, but Darce is, for all the respect I have for the guy, not anymore. Yet we have no other real options at 12. The only possible candidate for the shirt on the tour is being exposed on the wing.

Speaking of which Ferg is a lucky guy to still be there. And he'll be targeted again this weekend. He's suffered the utility back curse at Leinster which has really hampered him over the last 2 seasons IMO. If he'd been able to focus on a single position we might have seen more from him at both provincial and national level. I'd said before I thought Zebo was worth another look as we didn't really learn anything about him last week.

As for the bench, Fitzpatrick will be hoping that Healy lasts until after he's come on for Ross. And our lack of real FB cover is a bit worrying. It's not a great bench at all. I can't see us even staying close this weekend....

As for the Kiwi comments earlier, it was obviously a bit of light-hearted humour. No biggie. I laughed anyway. It's always good to have someone from the other side of the fence contributing to these discussions too...

Agreed. Otherwise, you might as well have a disclaimer "No kiwis need post". A bit like that guy in australia (ironically Irish), who advertised for a tradesmen saying "no irish need apply" - was reported in the Irish times or independent earlier in the year.

Swiwi

Fishooks12 wrote: »

You're overrating the AB's so and underrating some of our players

I'd have any of our options at 6 ahead of Thompson, even if Kaino were fit I'd pick Ferris. D Ryan, Healy and Best too

BOD is a coin toss with Smith and Kearney is only being held off by Daag being the only 15 in the world that could keep him off a team

SOB outplayed McCaw last week too

For my 2 cents, Stephen Ferris would definitely make my AB run-on 15. Kearney, Bowe, BOD, possibly Sexton, SOB would compete for the squad. Not sure about Healy & Best, if they can shine against Tri-nations teams would be considered alright. D Ryan - no.

matthew8

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Did anyone here Andy Hadens comments about Ireland.

He said and I quote, 'The All Blacks are sold short with these kind of teams turning up here, its not good enough. We need to have good contests down here and the reason Eden Park was not sold out is because the opposition are not rated.'

He made these comments on an NZ sports panel show. It was reported on the back of the sports page in Thursdays Independent.

Wouldn't you just love to stuff them after hearing something like that, they really are an arrogant bunch. :mad:

Well... he's right. We've never beaten the ABs, why the heck are we playing a 3 game series against them? We've never reached a world cup semi final, we have only won 2 grand slams in our history, our international team is truly unimpressive.

thebaz

after tonight the country could do with some serious pick me up - please Ireland lets have a big one

molloyjh

liammur wrote: »

Well after watching that soccer, completely outclassed, let's hope for better from the rugby, and with 10 leinster players in, there really can be no excuses.

Good man. If 10 Leinster players take the field and lose it's their fault regardless of game plan or other selections. Way to make a simplistic and provincially biased argument. Keep it up. We're short of that crap around here. Oh wait......

Phonehead

liammur wrote: »

Well after watching that soccer, completely outclassed, let's hope for better from the rugby, and with 10 leinster players in, there really can be no excuses.

We could have 10 Lions playing but there is not much they can do with Murray directing things. I genuienly feel for the guy, Kidney has this obsession of playing guys clearly not up to the level. I have no doubt Murray gives 100% but Kidney is not doing his development any favours.

Brian_Zeluz

Phonehead wrote: »

We could have 10 Lions playing but there is not much they can do with Murray directing things. I genuienly feel for the guy, Kidney has this obsession of playing guys clearly not up to the level. I have no doubt Murray gives 100% but Kidney is not doing his development any favours.

100% yes.

irishbucsfan

I think Murray is up to this level, I think if he was a Leinster player he would be a regular in the team in place of Boss tbh. However if he was a Leinster players he'd be coached effectively and he wouldn't be asked to do stupid things like kicking the ball to the kiwi back 3.

fitz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think Murray is up to this level, I think if he was a Leinster player he would be a regular in the team in place of Boss tbh. However if he was a Leinster players he'd be coached effectively and he wouldn't be asked to do stupid things like kicking the ball to the kiwi back 3.

+1.
Reckon he'd have had the faffing around/slow ball aspect of his game knocked out of him by now.

Teferi

Anyone saying anything like "10 Leinster players now we win" is showing a distinct lack of understanding of rugby.

Kilkenny14

All we can really ask for is an improvement in performance from last week which the players are capable of. Murray isn't the best selection but if he just focuses on not kicking away possession (unlikely I know) he can play well.

bamboozle

Kilkenny14 wrote: »

All we can really ask for is an improvement in performance from last week which the players are capable of. Murray isn't the best selection but if he just focuses on not kicking away possession (unlikely I know) he can play well.

box kicking aside, be it good bad or indifferent you shouldnt kick away hard won posession to a new zealand back 3, my concern with murray is his decision making in attacking positions, so many times last week he was presented ruck ball and he more often than not passed blind while we had numbers on the open side.

added to that Sexton seems to be playing much deeper for ireland than leinster which isnt helping back play either.

shuffol

Saying that an Irish team full of Leinster players should beat the AB's is as ridiculous as saying that a Leinster team coached by Declan Kidney would win the HEC.

liammur

Teferi wrote: »

Anyone saying anything like "10 Leinster players now we win" is showing a distinct lack of understanding of rugby.

Not so. People on this board were shouting for Leinster players. Never thinking 10 would be brought on.

Now the excuse. Murray. Give me a break.

liammur

shuffol wrote: »

Saying that an Irish team full of Leinster players should beat the AB's is as ridiculous as saying that a Leinster team coached by Declan Kidney would win the HEC.

Kidney would certainly win a H cup with Leinster imo. Would he be able to beat Ulster in a final? Cardiff at home? a French team away? Absolutely.

Unfortunately, they step up against the ABs is so huge both player and coach are out of their depth. It's no surprise that a player like Rocky Elsom arrives over here for what, a year? and suddenly he makes the H Cup team of all time.

RoundBox11

liammur wrote: »

Not so. People on this board were shouting for Leinster players. Never thinking 10 would be brought on.

Now the excuse. Murray. Give me a break.

Well given how important Eoin Reddan is to Leinster it makes perfect sense. The only extra Leinster players playing now that weren't there for the 6N are McLaughlin and McFadden, hardly world beaters.

However, having a leinster back row a leinster outhalf and a leinster centre partnership would greatly benefit the team IF we had a leinster player to link the pack and backs, i.e. Eoin Reddan. Its rediculous not to play Eoin Reddan.

Murray is a better player than people give him credit for, he's by no means a bad player. But that doesn't mean you should automatically have him as first choice. We'd have such a better chance if Eoin Reddan was playing.

It's not that it'll be Murrays fault if we get hammered, its more so a case that if Reddan was playing we would have stood a better chance.

Teferi

liammur wrote: »

Not so. People on this board were shouting for Leinster players. Never thinking 10 would be brought on.

Now the excuse. Murray. Give me a break.

People are also calling for a modern gameplan (which Leinster have and Ireland do not), a competent coach (which Leinster have and Ireland do not) and a well built squad with intelligent rotation (which Leinster have and Ireland do not).

You're conveniently ignoring these elements to push your own bias and agenda. If we lose tomorrow you'll be the first on to gloat about how "leinster" lost when that isn't the truth.

RoundBox11

liammur wrote: »

Kidney would certainly win a H cup with Leinster imo. Would he be able to beat Ulster in a final? Cardiff at home? a French team away? Absolutely.

Unfortunately, they step up against the ABs is so huge both player and coach are out of their depth. It's no surprise that a player like Rocky Elsom arrives over here for what, a year? and suddenly he makes the H Cup team of all time.

Oh yeah that measly Clermont team. I mean what Munster team wouldn't have beaten them in France?

Now is not the time for Leinster bashing.

Tox56

liammur wrote: »

shuffol wrote: »

Saying that an Irish team full of Leinster players should beat the AB's is as ridiculous as saying that a Leinster team coached by Declan Kidney would win the HEC.

Kidney would certainly win a H cup with Leinster imo. Would he be able to beat Ulster in a final? Cardiff at home? a French team away? Absolutely.

Unfortunately, they step up against the ABs is so huge both player and coach are out of their depth. It's no surprise that a player like Rocky Elsom arrives over here for what, a year? and suddenly he makes the H Cup team of all time.

I seriously doubt Kidney would have made this Leinster team one of the best there has been in the competition, do you think he would have won last year, given the teams Leinster had to face? Extremely unlikely

Some people have horribly low opinions of what a coach actually does to a team.

It's not like Football Manager, you don't just input tactics, press play and let it go.

The Leinster team that Schmidt took over were playing a slightly improved version of Kidney-Style rugby (under Cheika), they have transformed into a completely different outfit.

It's bizarre to say that Kidney, who's had the majority of the same players available (and most importantly, even better individuals too!) would have been able to turn Leinster into the team they are today, yet has been MASSIVELY unable to do anything but slip down a pretty obvious slope as the head coach of the national side.

He's still playing rugby that was huge in 2008. This is not 2008. Things have changed. His philosophies have not.

liammur

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Oh yeah that measly Clermont team. I mean what Munster team wouldn't have beaten them in France?

Now is not the time for Leinster bashing.

Don't be so silly. I'm praising Leinster. They are a great team. Kidney won H Cups with Munster, bring him back and he'll win again. It's a different level to international. He's not up to the job but it's not all his fault.