Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Fishooks12

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Tbf Corisibiero is a good player, much of a muchness between himself and Ciano

Healy is streets ahead in every aspect of his game.

Cole for Ross is the only one that is a coin flip in my eyes. And Ross is a better anchor at scrum time

Tox56

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

who's the English Loosehead that you would swap for?

don't google now...

Tbf Corisibiero is a good player, much of a muchness between himself and Ciano

It was Marler who started for them the other day, I don't know if Corbisiero is injured but I would rate Marler ahead of him.

Marler is similar to Healy, and has the potential to be as good/better than Healy, but I really think as things stand I would have Healy over any of their LH's

TheKeenMachine

Tox56 wrote: »

It was Marler who started for them the other day, I don't know if Corbisiero is injured but I would rate Marler ahead of him.

Marler is similar to Healy, and has the potential to be as good/better than Healy, but I really think as things stand I would have Healy over any of their LH's

Corisibiero is a better scrummager IMO, Healy better than him in every other department though.

Fishooks12

Healy can struggle against a certain type of TH, albeit less frequently now than in the past. But when he gets on top, coupled by his work in the loose I really think there isn't a loosehead in the World that can match him

And he's still 3 years off his peak.

TheKeenMachine

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Tbf Corisibiero is a good player, much of a muchness between himself and Ciano

I asked the question because unlike Ireland, England use more than one player even when not forced to. England choose between a collection of able if not fantastic looseheads. None of whom are at Healy's level yet.

Marler is going to be the English loosehead.

Corbisero is decent, nowhere near as able as Healy about the park though. Marler may catch up to Healy (I think he will), but he's not at Healy's level yet.

That's before we even talk about the hilarity of selecting Hartley over Best.

irishbucsfan

I would take Healy over both Corb and Marler. In fact I am looking at the Stoop right now from where I work (ok bit of an exaggeration theres a couple of buildings between us) and I am surrounded by Quins fans who all rate Healy higher than Marler. Healy and Best are as good as it gets in the UK and Ireland.

liammur

profitius wrote: »

The decline is Munster has stopped. Its all upwards from here on.

Well they can't really go much lower after McGahan, that's for sure.

Ardillaun

shuffol wrote: »

Harsh, for Savea's 2nd try I doubt there's a fullback in world rugby that would've stopped him running at that speed from 3 yards out.

The likes of Francois Steyn would have had some chance of doing it. The Boks have pulled off some amazing try-saving tackles over the years.

jacothelad

Clearlier wrote: »

Look, I did say that I think he's international class and that he should be given another chance. I've thought it seen I saw him and Earls play together in the Churchill cup. While Earls has the greater physical attributes Cave is a far more natural outside centre. He was single handedly responsible for Smith's try though. He didn't trust the guy inside him to make the tackle and he went for the wrong guy. He didn't take a great line (it wasn't a bad one but it wasn't doing very much) outside ROG, if he had I think that ROG might have passed it to him (although there's no guarantees there).

I remember BOD's first few caps. Defensive decision making was terrible. I was impressed with how Earls developed during the 6 nations but I thought the first test showed how far he has to come if he wants to be a top class 13. When BOD retires I'd sooner see him at 12 and Cave at 13 but I suspect that there'll be a lot of water under the bridge before BOD retires.

I'm going to stop now because I suspect we all agree that Cave deserves a real go at 13. My original point was trying to understand why he wouldn't have got the opportunity this weekend which may have been badly put. I think that he should have had the opportunity and I hope that he goes on to show what he can do.

" While Earls has the greater physical attributes "

Really?

Earls:
Height1.80 m (5' 11") Weight90 kg (14 st 1 lb)

Cave:Height1.83 m (6' 0") Weight97 kg (15 st 3 lb)

Cpt_Blackbeard

jacothelad wrote: »

" While Earls has the greater physical attributes "

Really?

Earls:
Height1.80 m (5' 11") Weight90 kg (14 st 1 lb)

Cave:Height1.83 m (6' 0") Weight97 kg (15 st 3 lb)

I'd consider pace a physical attribute.

shuffol

http://youtu.be/F2PKb2sXtRY

Tox56

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

jacothelad wrote: »

" While Earls has the greater physical attributes "

Really?

Earls:
Height1.80 m (5' 11") Weight90 kg (14 st 1 lb)

Cave:Height1.83 m (6' 0") Weight97 kg (15 st 3 lb)

I'd consider pace a physical attribute.

Well yes, but the original post claimed greater "attributes", I don't think that's a particularly accurate description.

CatFromHue

jacothelad wrote: »

" While Earls has the greater physical attributes "

Really?

Earls:
Height1.80 m (5' 11") Weight90 kg (14 st 1 lb)

Cave:Height1.83 m (6' 0") Weight97 kg (15 st 3 lb)

Force = Mass x Acceleration

Earls has much more acceleration that counters Cave's increased mass.

:pac:

Swiwi

liammur wrote: »

Our front 3 are average at best, England demolished our scrum.
D Tuohy/ D Ryan - H cup level
O Brien/McLaughlin/Heaslip - again nothing out of the ordinary as far as I'm concerned, but I do rate O Brien. Heaslip finds the step up to international level a step too far.
Murray/Reddan, limited players.
Sexton - well up to the job.
Darcy - finished
O Driscoll - was a world class player, too many miles on the clock, little to offer in attack but great heart and great defender.
Trimble - good provincial player.
McFadden - good but not great.
Kearney - Great long punt and catcher of the ball, suspect in defense and attack

I think you are totally on the money here, although I note a few of your compatriots don't seem to agree. Someone even suggested a Leinster 15 would give the ABs a close game. I don't think it's being arrogant to say it's being too optimistic to suggest that an Irish province can get close to the best of NZ provinces. The proof really is in the Lions pudding. If the Irisl/Leinster players really are all so amazing, then we should expect them to dominate the Lions team to Australia next year. Outside of those who can't see past provincial/country loyalty, the generally held view is that Ireland currently is an average side with a scattering of excellent players - and this is based on objective results in recent times. It is of course a moot point whether this is due to the coach or the players or a combination of both, but if you gave someone who knew nothing about rugby a list of Ireland's results over the last 2 years, the game last week, and their current IRB world ranking I think they would reach the same conclusion.

Fishooks12

Swiwi wrote: »

I think you are totally on the money here, although I note a few of your compatriots don't seem to agree. Someone even suggested a Leinster 15 would give the ABs a close game. I don't think it's being arrogant to say it's being too optimistic to suggest that an Irish province can get close to the best of NZ provinces. The proof really is in the Lions pudding. If the Irisl/Leinster players really are all so amazing, then we should expect them to dominate the Lions team to Australia next year. Outside of those who can't see past provincial/country loyalty, the generally held view is that Ireland currently is an average side with a scattering of excellent players - and this is based on objective results in recent times. It is of course a moot point whether this is due to the coach or the players or a combination of both, but if you gave someone who knew nothing about rugby a list of Ireland's results over the last 2 years, the game last week, and their current IRB world ranking I think they would reach the same conclusion.

Didn't we just nearly beat yer first 15 missing 5 of our regular starters on your own patch?

Fishooks12

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Didn't we just nearly beat yer first 15 missing 5 of our regular starters on your own patch?

that absolutely does not invalidate any of his points whatsoever.

Fishooks12

Deleted User wrote: »

that absolutely does not invalidate any of his points whatsoever.

I wrote that when emotions were running high!

thomond2006

I'd be happy with the same team next week. Now that we've shown we can run the ABs very very close, it's best to screw development for now and go for it in the last test. Hopefully D'Arcy will be fit, he was excellent in defence.

Fishooks12

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd be happy with the same team next week. Now that we've shown we can run the ABs very very close, it's best to screw development for now and go for it in the last test. Hopefully D'Arcy will be fit, he was excellent in defence.

Ya, same team for me provided the bench is used as effectively again

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

that absolutely does not invalidate any of his points whatsoever.

There is some point to it though.

He says we are an average side with a scattering of excellent players? How much is a scattering? 5? Because we were missing Stephen Ferris, Paul O'Connell, Tommy Bowe and Keith Earls.. So we didn't really have much of our scattering left. Making us quite average by his standards!

Cpt_Blackbeard

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd be happy with the same team next week. Now that we've shown we can run the ABs very very close, it's best to screw development for now and go for it in the last test. Hopefully D'Arcy will be fit, he was excellent in defence.

Earls should be fit to feature no?

I'd like to see POM brought back in, as he was great off the bench. ROG made a huge statement for selection, but I'd still like to see Sexton retain the 10 jersey.

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There is some point to it though.

He says we are an average side with a scattering of excellent players? How much is a scattering? 5? Because we were missing Stephen Ferris, Paul O'Connell, Tommy Bowe and Keith Earls.. So we didn't really have much of our scattering left. Making us quite average by his standards!

tbh the only part of the post I read was him calling us an average side!

Rezident

First time I've seen an Ireland team outplay the all blacks. Super performance.

TheKeenMachine

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Earls should be fit to feature no?

I'd like to see POM brought back in, as he was great off the bench. ROG made a huge statement for selection, but I'd still like to see Sexton retain the 10 jersey.

I dunno about POM, Locky was excellent also, and Henry probably deserves a chance as well.

The_Kew_Tour

Ireland were unlucky today.

But I do agree that Ireland are a average side.

Fishooks12

Locky really was crucial to our effort and POM suited coming into the game late. I'd leave it that way

19543261

I know everyone of us was wrong about today, but I'm honestly not feeling confident going into the next match. Even the thought of having to put in that performance again is utterly exhausting.

Teferi

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

ROG made a huge statement for selection,

No he did not.

Fishooks12

19543261 wrote: »

I know everyone of us was wrong about today, but I'm honestly not feeling confident going into the next match. Even the thought of having to put in that performance again is utterly exhausting.

It's not like we were constantly with out backs to the wall though. Our second half performance was the most encouraging in terms of style I've seen since the French game 2 years ago

irishbucsfan

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Earls should be fit to feature no?

I'd like to see POM brought back in, as he was great off the bench. ROG made a huge statement for selection, but I'd still like to see Sexton retain the 10 jersey.

Did you not think Locky was excellent?

POM showed last week he struggles to keep up from the start. Off the bench he can make the most of his strengths and hide his weaknesses.

Personally I'd like to see something of Chris Henry at some point, but I wouldn't be devastated to see the same back row selected.