Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Fireball07

I'd definitely have Wallace at 12 tbh...I think McFadden could possibly be a long-term option at 12, it's the only position I really like him in- at 13 he gets exposed defensively, and he's just not as good on the wing as several other players available. I don't think he's in the best form either.

Wallace is a very good 12 in an attacking sense...I don't think Earls is a 12, BOD might be. But I think Wallace-BOD is just a stronger unit. Put Earls on the wing, opposite Trimble.


POM seems a logical choice to go to 8...he's always been impressive when he played there. SOB too but he's been so good at 7.

yimrsg

DDC1990 wrote: »

I McFadden at 12 is fine vs Aeroni and Glasgow but the AB's are a different kettle of fish.

SBW and Conrad Smith are 2 of the most dangerous and abrasive centers in the world.

McFadden has looked shaky in tackles in almost every Ireland game i've seen. Im not saying he can't be a good center (just look at the abuse Earls was getting pre-6N and he turned out pretty good), I just havn't seen anything yet to fill me with confidence.
I know the tackle McFadden missed on North is always brought up to show he's a weak tackler, but it has to be highlighted. SBW would take one look at that clip and lick his lips at the thought of facing McFadden.

Having said that Carter would be doing cartwheels if ROG's name turns up on the teamsheet.

One thing we should target, no matter who's playing at 10 is Savea under the high ball. Looked like a rabbit in the headlights yesterday, and if we get good ball over him and a decent chase, we could make nice ground through the air on them.

Kicking to Dagg is suicide though, so I would employ an all out kicking game.

McFadden has played well away in Clermont with EOM (who I think made his debut) against Rougerie and King and was fine there. I'd call that as close as you can get to facing NZ in the HC in terms of intensity. McFadden is very similar to D'arcy and BOD in physique so I don't see why SBW or whoever would be licking their lips unless they're chapped. It's a like for like replacement.

Kicking straight to Dagg is suicide, but the NZ wingers aren't renowned defensively for their positioning and ability under a high ball. Dagg like all NZ players is only as good as you let them. A good kick chase to a contestable kick and we'll see what's what.

If Ireland get close or over 50% possession and territory, the defensive attributes of NZ will be called into question and examined more than their undoubted attacking prowess. If we can dictate the game and the tempo we've increased our chances of victory considerably as I don't think the current NZ squad without Kaino, an in form McCaw and a few others are as good in defence as they once were.

irishbucsfan

yimrsg wrote: »

McFadden has played well away in Clermont with EOM (who I think made his debut) against Rougerie and King and was fine there. I'd call that as close as you can get to facing NZ in the HC in terms of intensity. McFadden is very similar to D'arcy and BOD in physique so I don't see why SBW or whoever would be licking their lips unless they're chapped. It's a like for like replacement.

McFadden has never played 12 against Clermont. D'Arcy was 12 that day. McFadden played 11 and wasn't exactly perfect in defense.

I dunno how people haven't noticed McFadden's dodgy defense before now. It was very evident when he was a 13 and even now when playing 12 he looks far too indecisive and unnatural against teams far weaker than the All Blacks. I wouldn't be unhappy to see him play but I'd much rather see Earls, Cave or Wallace.

RoundBox11

For all the un-warrented moaning about Heaslip that's gone on over the past few months, we will all see how vital he is next week. I think he's our biggest loss out of all the players missing, not least of all because we've no real options at 8 imo. His leadership and work at the breakdown have been immense lately. I think he made 22 tackles in the first test 2 weeks ago. POM is nowhere near as good as Heaslip.

I never thought i'd be worried about missing D'Arcy during this series. I'd be fairly certain it'll be Earls and BOD in the centre again. Although I'd have BOD and Cave together with Earls on the wing instead of McFadden.

.ak

So, our injury list has grown to:

POC (?), Ferris, D'Arcy, Heaslip, Bowe, Earls, Fitzgerald... So, what can we expect to see next week? I'd like to see something like....


1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Touhy
6. Locky
7. Henry
8. SOB
9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. BOD
13. Cave
14. McFadden
15. Kearney


Not gonna happen tho is it?

I wouldn't be surprisd to see Duffy get the 22 jersey...

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

McFadden has never played 12 against Clermont. D'Arcy was 12 that day. McFadden played 11 and wasn't exactly perfect in defense.

I dunno how people haven't noticed McFadden's dodgy defense before now. It was very evident when he was a 13 and even now when playing 12 he looks far too indecisive and unnatural against teams far weaker than the All Blacks. I wouldn't be unhappy to see him play but I'd much rather see Earls, Cave or Wallace.

His decision making is a problem at 13 for obvious reasons, and on the wing he doesn't know when to come in or stay out.

His actual tackling is fine and at 12 he is far less exposed.

irishbucsfan

Tox56 wrote: »

His decision making is a problem at 13 for obvious reasons, and on the wing he doesn't know when to come in or stay out.

His actual tackling is fine and at 12 he is far less exposed.

I think we've had this conversation before, but no his tackling is not fine... it's his biggest problem in defense as far as I'm concerned.

shootermacg

Tox56 wrote: »

His decision making is a problem at 13 for obvious reasons, and on the wing he doesn't know when to come in or stay out.

His actual tackling is fine and at 12 he is far less exposed.

I still remember PoC side stepping him lmao, when PoC can sidestep you, you need to have a look at your defence.

clsmooth

Fitzpatrick has to start next week. If he comes through that well, we can finally say we have two decent tightheads. Developing cover in this position is critical and if by the end of the tour we have two options there, I think you'd have to say the your has been a success. Let's not forget what happened 3 months ago.

Fishooks12

clsmooth wrote: »

Fitzpatrick has to start next week. If he comes through that well, we can finally say we have two decent tightheads. Developing cover in this position is critical and if by the end of the tour we have two options there, I think you'd have to say the your has been a success. Let's not forget what happened 3 months ago.

We've seen enough to know that he's a decent TH and able for the International game. But he's not fit enough yet and needs to work on that and improve his defese. Ross is a nailed on starter

Podge_irl

What happened three months ago had more to do with 22 man benches then us not having adequate TH cover. That won't be an issue come Nov.

Wallace should have been at 12 from the off so I'd stick him in right there. This notion of him being defensively suspect is almost a complete fallacy.

clsmooth

Podge_irl wrote: »

What happened three months ago had more to do with 22 man benches then us not having adequate TH cover. That won't be an issue come Nov.

Wallace should have been at 12 from the off so I'd stick him in right there. This notion of him being defensively suspect is almost a complete fallacy.

Why bother having a prop who can play both sides but is poor on one side? Would have been better bringing on Cronin and going uncontested.

Podge_irl

clsmooth wrote: »

Why bother having a prop who can play both sides but is poor on one side? Would have been better bringing on Cronin and going uncontested.

You can't. You have to bring on a prop if one is available.

Cpt_Blackbeard

clsmooth wrote: »

Fitzpatrick has to start next week. If he comes through that well, we can finally say we have two decent tightheads. Developing cover in this position is critical and if by the end of the tour we have two options there, I think you'd have to say the your has been a success. Let's not forget what happened 3 months ago.

We'll have plenty of time to develop players in the Autumn. This week is about playing our strongest possible team and getting the win we deserve.

CatFromHue

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

We'll have plenty of time to develop players in the Autumn. This week is about playing our strongest possible team and getting the win we deserve.

With the way the rankings are the games in the Autumn are the must win ones not next Saturday.

Hagz

CatFromHue wrote: »

With the way the rankings are the games in the Autumn are the must win ones not next Saturday.

Ah sure, we'll have plenty of time to develop next June.

snow mad

CatFromHue wrote: »

With the way the rankings are the games in the Autumn are the must win ones not next Saturday.

Sorry what if we were to win next sat we wouldnt really have to worry about the rankings and if we can play like last sat that isnt that hard to see

Scioch

Hagz wrote: »

Ah sure, we'll have plenty of time to develop next June.

Whats next June ? Wolfhound tour of the US ?

TheKeenMachine

LordSmeg wrote: »

Whats next June ? Wolfhound tour of the US ?

Not Wolfhound per se, just non-Lions I think. And it's probably US and Canada.

snow mad

are we going to take part in the church hill cup again its a great oppertunity for the backlog of young players to work with the national set up

Taco Corp

snow mad wrote: »

are we going to take part in the church hill cup again its a great oppertunity for the backlog of young players to work with the national set up

Church Hill cup has been discontinued in favour of the 3 test summer tours

CatFromHue

snow mad wrote: »

Sorry what if we were to win next sat we wouldnt really have to worry about the rankings and if we can play like last sat that isnt that hard to see

If we win on Saturday it bumps us up to 81.85 points.

Giving SA an estimated rating of 85 (they're on 85.44, will more than likely beat Eng on sat, and if they have an average 4 Nations tournament they'll prob be around 85 in Nov) for next Novembers game means if we lose we're down to 80.86. Similarly if we give Arg an estimated rating of 81 (they're on 81.25 now with France still to play before the 4 Nations) then if we lose to them we'll end up on 79.57 points. If we lose to Argentina and they have a lower points value it puts us in an even worse points rating.

We're on 79.85 now so that gives an indication if what could happen in November.

Realistically though only Samoa or Tonga at a stretch could knock us out of the top 8 and they'd have to win a game against a top 8 team in November to do that.

danthefan

Podge_irl wrote: »

What happened three months ago had more to do with 22 man benches then us not having adequate TH cover. That won't be an issue come Nov.

Wallace should have been at 12 from the off so I'd stick him in right there. This notion of him being defensively suspect is almost a complete fallacy.

If someone runs at him then he'll make his tackle, that's not an issue, what can happen with him is he gets drawn inside when he should just stay in his own channel, creating a gap. He'll have to be disciplined. Hopefully he starts, makes no sense at all to fly him over otherwise.

DDC1990

DDC1990 wrote: »

I admit I haven't seen much of Paddy Wallace this season (bar the HC final, where aside from one decent offload he was muck). Maybe im letting his past cloud my judgement, but I was never a fan. I could say the same for ROG, im letting his past endevours cloud my judgement.

I think you are better off having a defensive weak link at 10, closer to the pack and Murray as a physical SH, then at 12, where if they cut through you, you're done for.
Anyway, no matter what happens ROG will be in off the bench at 55mins i'd imagine.

And yes, I believe that ROG at 10 and Sexton at 12 will get a backine moving better then any other combo. I'd just fear for O'Gara defensivly.

duckysauce

Swiwi wrote: »

This just in: SBW was seen quaking in his boots today. No, not because there has been another earthquake in Chch, but because Gordon "Darce" Darcy has been named at inside centre for Ireland. "With his dynamic attacking skills, ability to offload in the tackle, and bone-jarring defence, I just feel I will have to step my game up another level. Fozzie (All Blacks back coach Ian Foster) immediately convened a meeting to work out how we would shut down the Darcy threat. We were just relieved they left Ronan (Rog) O'Gara on the bench", he added.

sbw was nearly left shaking after church went at him .And Darcy had an unreal game in defense , will be missed next week big time,

Klunk_NZ

duckysauce wrote: »

sbw was nearly left shaking after church went at him .And Darcy had an unreal game in defense , will be missed next week big time,

I think you emphasised the wrong word.

DDC1990

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you remember Paddy Wallace in the HC Final playing differently.

It was a while ago, but to my memory Wallace was anonymous in the Final, and dominated through the middle defensivly.

Leinster were on fire, but he still played shíte.

Im open to correction.

duckysauce

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

I think you emphasised the wrong word.

MY BAD

totallegend

DDC1990 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you remember Paddy Wallace in the HC Final playing differently.

It was a while ago, but to my memory Wallace was anonymous in the Final, and dominated through the middle defensivly.

Leinster were on fire, but he still played shíte.

Im open to correction.

Wallace was probably Ulster's best player in the HC final, certainly their best back.

It wasn't that long ago...

Yamanoto

Not sure whether it's been posted already but the full match with NZ commentary is up on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqJ-KxVMRPc