Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

danthefan

Fortunate to not be cited and possibly was worth investigating, however it would be massively uncharacteristic for McLaughlin. I doubt that's what caused the damage to McCaw's eye though?

RoundBox11

I like McLaughlin and i think he's a good clean player.

But i don't think that was an accident. He had his hand on his face way too long for it to have been accidental. What good was grabbing him by the face anyway? He's a tall guy himself so grabbing at that height is obviously going to cause contact to the face/head.

To put it in better terms, if it was McCaw doing that to McLaughlin, i think most of us would be saying it was clearly gouging.

Tox56

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I like McLaughlin and i think he's a good clean player.

But i don't think that was an accident. He had his hand on his face way too long for it to have been accidental. What good was grabbing him by the face anyway? He's a tall guy himself so grabbing at that height is obviously going to cause contact to the face/head.

To put it in better terms, if it was McCaw doing that to McLaughlin, i think most of us would be saying it was clearly gouging.

I don't know why they do it, but how many times in a maul do you see players in headlocks and the like? It seems to go on all the time for whatever reason.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Tox56 wrote: »

I don't know why they do it, but how many times in a maul do you see players in headlocks and the like? It seems to go on all the time for whatever reason.

You wouldn't normally see anything half as bad as that in most mauls though. Players coming through do get grabbed by the head, but McLoughlin went at McCaw's face and eyes 3/4 times. I am in no way saying that there was anything cynical about it, but I'd still prefer if he had seen ~12weeks reduced to ~9 for it. It was stupid, clumsy play and should have been punished.

irishbucsfan

Nowhere near the worst thing I've seen in a maul.

Could well have been cited, no question there, but there wasn't anything malicious in it and it wasn't that bad at all.

shootermacg

Nice interviews here, looks like the all blacks showed ireland a lot of respect to be fair:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/video.cfm?c_id=80&gal_objectid=10813611&gallery_id=126195

Hagz

Judging by those interviews, Brian's lost the ability to blink in his left eye.

danthefan

Hagz wrote: »

Judging by those interviews, Brian's lost the ability to blink in his left eye.

The whole left of his face is a bit still. I'd say they gave him an injection/something numbing to treat his knock.

Swiwi

OK, so I realise there is a lot of discussion about Irish team & tactics for this week, but here's a post on NZ team selections.

Firstly, I would be tempted to give Mealamu a start at hooker, Hore has been OK at line-out time, but was otherwise outplayed by Best last week. The scrum was OK until Ben Franks came on, he did a great impersonation of Tom Court v England, but this was a test match not stand-up comedy, and I didn't find myself laughing, cringing more like. Unfortunately, he seems to be the only prop that apparently covers both sides of the scrum for NZ, so he'll probably be back on the bench. Look forward to the 2-props-in-reserves rule, so that can have specialist loosehead & tighthead on the bench.

He wasn't helped by Ali Williams...who was world class in 2005, but positively benign in 2012. There was a general sigh of relief around NZ to see he won't be available this week. We have been playing 2 bean-pole locks, and so I think Luke Romano should get a start with Whitelock. Alternatively, Leinster could we have Thorn back please?

In the loosies, we were out-muscled, would go with Messam/Read/McCaw, with Cane on bench, and drop Thomson.

Continue with Smith (wasn't Weepu's pass for the first attempt at drop-goal absolutely awful), and Carter at 10...ca va sans dire. I keep waiting for SBW to "click" but not quite there yet...not sure about him or Nonu. Smith at centre, or alternatively wouldn't object to seeing Tamati Ellison get a run, as Smith will have a heavy workload in 4Nations.

Savea will come right in the longrun (I hope), but definitely should be dropped for this week. Would put Kahui or Jane in...oh wait, they're injured. Guildford is really starting to get a journeyman tag in my opinion...he has only ever had 1 decent game for ABs...and that was v Canada in RWC, so has an asterix by it. I would put Gear on left wing, Dagg at fullback, and give Smith 80 mins, although I really think he is a specialist fullback and bit-part wing.

Anyway, back to irish tactics & selections...

danthefan

Mealamu is injured isn't he?

Hype710

Whether Read plays this week or not will be crucial to the outcome IMO.

Swiwi

danthefan wrote: »

Mealamu is injured isn't he?

No, he's available for this week. I rather suspect he will be on the bench, though.

Swiwi

Hype710 wrote: »

Whether Read plays this week or not will be crucial to the outcome IMO.

Agree he has become the most important AB after Carter (is hard to believe Carter would have let slip all those early penalty attempts in RWC final which Weepu did). Is marked as future captain. If he is out, there is talk of Messam at 8, but i think he is better at 6, so would stick McCaw at 8, where he has played a bit this year. I can actually see the AB pack getting monstered in SA, and given a good run for their money in Argentina. Luckily, there's always Australia's tight five, but they have the world's best no 7 in Pocock (with all due respect to the in-form SOB). Australia = Genia + Pocock.

Monty Burnz

Swiwi wrote: »

No, he's available for this week. I rather suspect he will be on the bench, though.

If there's any justice the Irish pack will drop him on his head in the first five minutes...

Swiwi

Monty Burnz wrote: »

If there's any justice the Irish pack will drop him on his head in the first five minutes...

You won't get any bites from me there, I totally agree he & Umaga were very lucky in 2005, would definitely have been at last cited nowadays...

Monty Burnz

Swiwi wrote: »

You won't get any bites from me there, I totally agree he & Umaga were very lucky in 2005, would definitely have been at last cited nowadays...

As the great man said, time heals all wounds.

Swiwi

Monty Burnz wrote: »

As the great man said, time heals all wounds.

It's interesting there is a wee feeling on NZ sites that people wouldn't have minded an Irish victory, given how well they played. It wasn't like the ABs were totally crap, OK they have some room to improve, but really the irish just put in a damn good display. I reckon Ireland would give anything to have that last 10 minutes again...starting with kicking for touch and not forlornly for goal. A try off a lineout would have definitely sealed the match. Was all rather surreal watching NZ actually kick a winning drop goal...especially give that the master at this ploy O'Gara was on the other side. Oh that we hadn't been so "above" a drop goal in 2007...

Tox56

I would play Sam Cane, he looked far better than McCaw in the time he was on, McCaw can't really be dropped so he would go to 8 I suppose.

SOB is someone only learning to play the traditional 7 role, and has outplayed the master two weeks in a row. He might not be fully fit or whatever, but they don't really have anything to lose playing Cane.

WeeBushy

My prediction:

15. Kearney
14. Earls/Zebo
13. O'Driscoll
12. Wallace/Earls
11. Trimble
10. Sexton
9. Murray
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Touhy
6. McLaughlin
7. O'Brien
8. O'Mahony

16. Cronin
17. Fitzpatrick
18. O'Callaghan
19. Henry
20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. Zebo/Wallace

Quint2010

That footage is simply McLoughlin grabbing Richie "born offside" McCaw by the face. It's far from an Alan Quinlan job..

Swiwi

Tox56 wrote: »

I would play Sam Cane, he looked far better than McCaw in the time he was on, McCaw can't really be dropped so he would go to 8 I suppose.

SOB is someone only learning to play the traditional 7 role, and has outplayed the master two weeks in a row. He might not be fully fit or whatever, but they don't really have anything to lose playing Cane.

I think McCaw will improve...I can't ever recall him making 4 knock-ons in a match before, but there is a growing feeling in NZ that he has become too slow for 7. The great Michael Jones finished out his career at 6. But currently he brings a lot more with his leadership, and I wouldn't drop him altogether, definitely not. He basically played a small amount of rugby last year on a broken foot, and hasn't played that much for the Crusaders this year, so I think he will improve. But a bit like Federer, he has fallen behind Pocock (and I would have to say SOB given the last 2 tests)...and the greatest mystery is why SA dropped Heinrich Brussow altogether from their squad.

Cardinal Richelieu

Swiwi wrote: »

It's interesting there is a wee feeling on NZ sites that people wouldn't have minded an Irish victory, given how well they played. It wasn't like the ABs were totally crap, OK they have some room to improve, but really the irish just put in a damn good display. I reckon Ireland would give anything to have that last 10 minutes again...starting with kicking for touch and not forlornly for goal. A try off a lineout would have definitely sealed the match. Was all rather surreal watching NZ actually kick a winning drop goal...especially give that the master at this ploy O'Gara was on the other side. Oh that we hadn't been so "above" a drop goal in 2007...

The New Zealand Herald was saying even before the series started that it needed an Irish win to spark local interest and that they expected one. I loved the story on their website about how a certain NZ match commentator has started to use the word "Pure" rather alot lately in match commentary. Pure just happens to be a new product from the shows sponsor.

Swiwi

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

The New Zealand Herald was saying even before the series started that it needed an Irish win to spark local interest and that they expected one. I loved the story on their website about how a certain NZ match commentator has started to use the word "Pure" rather alot lately in match commentary. Pure just happens to be a new product from the shows sponsor.

I can guarantee there will much interest in this week's game. The big Q for me is whether Ireland can front again. Another game like last week, and I think they will have shown they are the real deal. From a NZ perspective I am genuinely interested to see what selections Hansen makes. Any thoughts of giving the second 15 a run should have been well & truly put to bed, but there is room for tinkering alright.

Fishooks12

Quint2010 wrote: »

That footage is simply McLoughlin grabbing Richie "born offside" McCaw by the face. It's far from an Alan Quinlan job..

Very similar actually. Difference is Quinlan could see his hand in the face of Cullen. Locky however didn't see what his had was doing in McCaws face but knew well it was there

Quint2010

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Very similar actually. Difference is Quinlan could see his hand in the face of Cullen. Locky however didn't see what his had was doing in McCaws face but knew well it was there

You reckon?

shuffol

Dont know if I'd go so far as to say SOB outplayed McCaw, he performed very well and his breakdown work has clearly come on leaps and bounds this season, however virtually all his good work has been done in defence and its a lot easier for your defensive work to stand out when the opposition has more of the ball.

Fishooks12

Quint2010 wrote: »

You reckon?

Quinlans is worse alright but Locky has his hand right there on the eye area. Really careless and he's very lucky not to get cited, which IMO he should have been although I'm obviously glad he wasn't given how good he was

thebaz

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Very similar actually. Difference is Quinlan could see his hand in the face of Cullen. Locky however didn't see what his had was doing in McCaws face but knew well it was there

even with red tinted glasses I couldn't see a similarity

Quint2010

Sorry but no way McLoughlins was nearly as bad.

ormond lad

Lads forget about comparing the incidents as its not relevant to the thread.

Back on topic
When will the team for next week be named??