Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Quint2010

ormond lad wrote: »

Lads forget about comparing the incidents as its not relevant to the thread.
When will the team for next week be named??

Why is it not relevant to the thread?

WeeBushy

ormond lad wrote: »

Lads forget about comparing the incidents as its not relevant to the thread.

When will the team for next week be named??

thebaz

how I hope we go one inch forward, and put one over New Zealand - Ireland needs a boost, after our euros flof

colman1212

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7823496,00.html

Nice to see two irish props on planet rugby's team of the week!!
Also great to see drico in there. He was some warrior saturday night.

Klunk_NZ

colman1212 wrote: »

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7823496,00.html

Nice to see two irish props on planet rugby's team of the week!!
Also great to see drico in there. He was some warrior saturday night.

More than half the 'top team' were part of a losing cause.

Ardillaun

Gear is available and they didn't bother picking him? That says a lot about resources available right there.

mikedragon32

ormond lad wrote: »

Lads forget about comparing the incidents as its not relevant to the thread.

Back on topic
When will the team for next week be named??

Quint2010 wrote: »

Why is it not relevant to the thread?

WeeBushy wrote: »

Lads, please don't question the Mod.







Wait a minute....

:pac:

Teferi

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

More than half the 'top team' were part of a losing cause.

That doesn't mean that individuals on those teams didn't play well.

You lose as a team but individual merit can shine through.

Klunk_NZ

Teferi wrote: »

That doesn't mean that individuals on those teams didn't play well.

You lose as a team but individual merit can shine through.

Just an interesting observation. I wish I had watched the Eng/SA game and was sober enough to comprehend the Wales/Aus game to form more informed opinions on this writers 'top team' but I would say a top team should consist of winners, since they did what it took to well, win.

Tox56

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

Teferi wrote: »

That doesn't mean that individuals on those teams didn't play well.

You lose as a team but individual merit can shine through.

Just an interesting observation. I wish I had watched the Eng/SA game and was sober enough to comprehend the Wales/Aus game to form more informed opinions on this writers 'top team' but I would say a top team should consist of winners, since they did what it took to well, win.

Even if individually they weren't better than their opposite number? Individual performance is the whole point of these teams

Klunk_NZ

Tox56 wrote: »

Even if individually they weren't better than their opposite number? Individual performance is the whole point of these teams

I'm just saying it is highly unusual. But given the close nature of the test matches in the weekend I guess it could happen.
I would disagree with 5 -Donnacha Ryan (Ireland) and 7 Sam Cane (New Zealand) and 10 Berrick Barnes (Australia) and 12 Felipe Contepomi (Argentina) from the limited volume of rugby I saw. (I realise I have contradicted my main point by mentioning 3 winners of the 4 but I would replace them all with 3 winners to balance)

Tox56

I think it's whoever played best, regardless of whether they won or not.

Don't know how Cane got 7 ahead of both Pocock and SOB, but it's just some guys opinion that doesn't really count for anything

Kilkenny14

I just got a ticket to the match on Saturday so on the way to Hamilton with 8 others - can't wait!

Just on NZ reaction to the 2nd test a surprising number of people here told me they wanted us to win in those 10 minutes - they don't want us to win this week but we did regain their respect.

Hopefully we can win this game - it really would be a sporting injustice if BOD is never part of an Irish team that beats them.

Klunk_NZ

Kilkenny14 wrote: »

I just got a ticket to the match on Saturday so on the way to Hamilton with 8 others - can't wait!

Just on NZ reaction to the 2nd test a surprising number of people here told me they wanted us to win in those 10 minutes - they don't want us to win this week but we did regain their respect.

Hopefully we can win this game - it really would be a sporting injustice if BOD is never part of an Irish team that beats them.

I got tickets aswell:D gonna be a cracker.

Fishooks12

Kilkenny14 wrote: »

I just got a ticket to the match on Saturday so on the way to Hamilton with 8 others - can't wait!

Just on NZ reaction to the 2nd test a surprising number of people here told me they wanted us to win in those 10 minutes - they don't want us to win this week but we did regain their respect.

Hopefully we can win this game - it really would be a sporting injustice if BOD is never part of an Irish team that beats them.

The fact that they want us to win is kind of condescending tbh

Paparazzo

Here's a poll from tv in new zealand. And yes, "besty"

Monty Burnz

Cian Healy apparently escaping notice somehow despite a huge number of tackles, plenty of carries, and holding his own/driving back the AB scrum for 80 minutes.

Interesting stuff though. It's fascinating getting an insight into the NZ rugby 'mind'.

stephen_n

I'm surprised Heaslip rated so lowly, I thought he was immense on Saturday.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Very surprised to see BOD feature so highly in the pole. He hasn't been great. Surprised about Kearney too, as he has had a chance to show the form that won the the Euro Player of the Year gong. You'd expect that the Kiwi's would have expected more from both considering their reputations.

Healy, Best, Ryan and SOB have been our best players.

totallegend

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Healy, Best, Ryan and SOB have been our best players.

Best has been our stand out player all season, absolutely immense in the World Cup, Six Nations and again in New Zealand.

Tox56

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Cian Healy apparently escaping notice somehow despite a huge number of tackles, plenty of carries, and holding his own/driving back the AB scrum for 80 minutes.

Interesting stuff though. It's fascinating getting an insight into the NZ rugby 'mind'.

My favourite insight into their 'mind' was that poll on the SilverFern forum, where the question was "Which means more, RWC or unbeaten record v Ireland". I presumed RWC would win by a landslide, but it wasn't the case. That record really means something to them, although many of them wouldn't have been too dissapointed if we had won on Saturday.

Also, Chris Rattue had Healy down as MOTM for the 2nd test.

Swiwi

On the Toland v Owens ref thing. I don't want to enter into whether it was right or wrong call, but I think it would be foolish for Ireland to think it was the sole reason they came up just short. I actually took the time to read the NZRFU review of the 2007 quarter-final defeat, and it was quite interesting. Rather than just a 2-line report saying "Barnes missed a forward pass, it was all his fault", they went into detailed analysis including too much rotation, Mauger & Howlett in the stands not on the park, injuries to both Carter & Evans etc.

Regardless of whether Owens made the right call or not, there other contributing factors, and if I remember rightly ?Ross knocked on late in the game, when Ireland were in the AB 22.

IMHO, good on Owens for standing up for himself, it might not have been the right decision, but it is ridiculous as some people are saying that he did it on purpose.

Finally, I think should be careful in assuming that because one scrum has become dominant they can't possibly commit any offences at scrum-time, or converselt that the weak scrm is always at fault.

Swiwi

Fishooks12 wrote: »

The fact that they want us to win is kind of condescending tbh

Not really I just think there was admiration for such a fantastic effort, especially given the ABs were not playing that badly.

Tox56

I doubt the IRFU have a 1 sentence report of "Owens lost us the match" either.

The opinions of a few blokes on a rugby forums and one journalist don't reflect a nation any more than NZ journalists and a few blokes on NZ rugby forums after that France defeat.

thomond2006

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Very surprised to see BOD feature so highly in the pole. He hasn't been great. Surprised about Kearney too, as he has had a chance to show the form that won the the Euro Player of the Year gong. You'd expect that the Kiwi's would have expected more from both considering their reputations.

Healy, Best, Ryan and SOB have been our best players.

BOD probably gets a high rating because he's well known, these kind of viewer polls tend to reflect popularity as much as anything else.

duckysauce

thomond2006 wrote: »

BOD probably gets a high rating because he's well known, these kind of viewer polls tend to reflect popularity as much as anything else.

I would say also sbw was anonymous on Saturday due to BOD.

Swiwi

Tox56 wrote: »

I doubt the IRFU have a 1 sentence report of "Owens lost us the match" either.

The opinions of a few blokes on a rugby forums and one journalist don't reflect a nation any more than NZ journalists and a few blokes on NZ rugby forums after that France defeat.

The only thing is that the journalist concerned apparently played for Leinster, and as captain. Aside from death & taxes, referees making mistakes is also pretty inevitable. It must be pretty stressful being a top-level referee, without the benefit of mutiple replays that the viewers get, and I think Owens had a pretty decent game overall. Certainly his form seems to have improved since RWC.

thomond2006

duckysauce wrote: »

I would say also sbw was anonymous on Saturday due to BOD.

Forgot to mention that I thought BOD was grand, as you say he certainly kept SBW and Smith quiet.

However given the performance of other players, I don't think he deserved many votes tbh.

Tox56

Swiwi wrote: »

The only thing is that the journalist concerned apparently played for Leinster, and as captain. Aside from death & taxes, referees making mistakes is also pretty inevitable. It must be pretty stressful being a top-level referee, without the benefit of mutiple replays that the viewers get, and I think Owens had a pretty decent game overall. Certainly his form seems to have improved since RWC.

Are you saying there not one single former player who came out and criticised Barnes after the loss in 2007?

I don't see why that matters though, he's not involved with the union and isn't speaking on behalf of them.

I agree with you on the criticism of referee's, but as long as the players/IRFU aren't simply blaming the referee and not looking at the other failures, I don't think it matters.

Swiwi

Tox56 wrote: »

Are you saying there not one single former player who came out and criticised Barnes after the loss in 2007?

I don't see why that matters though, he's not involved with the union and isn't speaking on behalf of them.

I agree with you on the criticism of referee's, but as long as the players/IRFU aren't simply blaming the referee and not looking at the other failures, I don't think it matters.

I am sure there was, and to their detriment. It is clear that the loss in 2007 was multifactorial.

To Ireland's credit, BOD did not blame Owens, just like McCaw did not blame Barnes in 2007.

I think the fact SOB rated highest on the re-union poll, reflects the way people are impressed with how he has nullified McCaw.