Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Swiwi

duckysauce wrote: »

Think Craig Joubert did that

Have you heard the one about Craig Joubert? Oh wait, it's been told a 1000 times already. RWC 2011 is now history, and it all gets a bit tedious really TBH. There must be more to discuss for this week than Craig Joubert?

matthew8

Well, I think Carter and Read are a bigger loss than all the players we've lost too. I mean, we've never come closer to beating the ABs in NZ despite being without Ferris and O'Connell, but when NZ lose Carter, they turn into an average team. With Carter in the team, the world cup final would not have been close, and if he had played in all the games, they would have won the tri nations. I think Read is the best No. 8 in the world, but he's not a catastrophic loss. Cancels out our losses of D'Arcy and Heaslip though. Carter though, he's the best player I've ever seen.

Tox56

Swiwi wrote: »

Have you heard the one about Craig Joubert? Oh wait, it's been told a 1000 times already. RWC 2011 is now history, and it all gets a bit tedious really TBH. There must be more to discuss for this week than Craig Joubert?

Have you been reading the last few pages?

Swiwi

If the Irish want some inspiration they need look no further than France. No not 1999 or 2007. 1994, in NZ. In 1994, NZ lost the first test. Jonah Lomu did a Julian Savea and was found out positionally and under the high ball. Simon Mannix dropped a ball near the goal-line from which France scored. Mannix was never sighted in a black jersey again, although I see he has now popped up as Munster backs coach. Lomu made a handy enough comeback in 1995...

But the point is, after the first up test loss, everyone was saying the usual things about the ABs starting slowly, and coming back angry for the second test bla bla bla. Instead, the French produced another inspired display, culminating in the magnificent "try from the end of the earth" to win the series 2-0 (try is worth a look on youtube).

So there's no reason for the irish not to back up again this weekend, and come away with a good result.

TheKeenMachine

Swiwi wrote: »

Have you heard the one about Craig Joubert? Oh wait, it's been told a 1000 times already. RWC 2011 is now history, and it all gets a bit tedious really TBH. There must be more to discuss for this week than Craig Joubert?

Absolutely agree. NZ may have had a few fortunate calls from Joubert but they were still the best team in the world and deserved the title over the previous 4 years . I'm sure NZ fans can point to moments in the past such as the 95 final that they feel aggrieved about aswell. What's done is done, just move on!

Swiwi

Tox56 wrote: »

Have you been reading the last few pages?

Of course, but Joubert comments seem to pop up everywhere, and it just becomes a bit boring IMHO. It's not as if he cost Ireland the RWC final.

Tox56

matthew8 wrote: »

Well, I think Carter and Read are a bigger loss than all the players we've lost too. I mean, we've never come closer to beating the ABs in NZ despite being without Ferris and O'Connell, but when NZ lose Carter, they turn into an average team. With Carter in the team, the world cup final would not have been close, and if he had played in all the games, they would have won the tri nations. I think Read is the best No. 8 in the world, but he's not a catastrophic loss. Cancels out our losses of D'Arcy and Heaslip though. Carter though, he's the best player I've ever seen.

Carter and Read may be better players than anyone we've lost, but the sheer volume of players we have lost (POC, Ferris, Heaslip, D'Arcy, Fitzgerald, Bowe) combined with the fact our team is far weaker (and has less depth) than NZ means, overall, we are probably effected more by our injuries than NZ. Then add in the fact we're playing them in NZ and it's a mountain to climb.

RoundBox11

Am i the only one who thinks Dan Carter isn't as gene creamingly awesome as he is made out to be? I do think he's an incredible player and the best 10 in the world, but he's not the god like figure he's made out to be imo.

Swiwi

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Absolutely agree. NZ may have had a few fortunate calls from Joubert but they were still the best team in the world and deserved the title over the previous 4 years . I'm sure NZ fans can point to moments in the past such as the 95 final that they feel aggrieved about aswell. What's done is done, just move on!

Look, if I am honest France were the better team, especially in the second half. But regardless of whether NZ had been in the final or not, it would have felt wrong to have a team that lost 2 pool matches, got past a woeful England, and beat a 14-man Welsh team crowned as world champions. As you say, NZ had been overall the best team in the preceding couple of years, and certainly in the tournament...and besides we needed our warm fuzzies-Nelson Mandela 95 type moment...

matthew8

Tox56 wrote: »

Carter and Read may be better players than anyone we've lost, but the sheer volume of players we have lost (POC, Ferris, Heaslip, D'Arcy, Fitzgerald, Bowe) combined with the fact our team is far weaker (and has less depth) than NZ means, overall, we are probably effected more by our injuries than NZ. Then add in the fact we're playing them in NZ and it's a mountain to climb.

I had forgotten about Bowe and Fitz somehow. They would make a big difference although I don't think they would be all that useful playing Kidney rugby.

Swiwi

Swiwi wrote: »

If the Irish want some inspiration they need look no further than France. No not 1999 or 2007. 1994, in NZ. In 1994, NZ lost the first test. Jonah Lomu did a Julian Savea and was found out positionally and under the high ball. Simon Mannix dropped a ball near the goal-line from which France scored. Mannix was never sighted in a black jersey again, although I see he has now popped up as Munster backs coach. Lomu made a handy enough comeback in 1995...

But the point is, after the first up test loss, everyone was saying the usual things about the ABs starting slowly, and coming back angry for the second test bla bla bla. Instead, the French produced another inspired display, culminating in the magnificent "try from the end of the earth" to win the series 2-0 (try is worth a look on youtube).

So there's no reason for the irish not to back up again this weekend, and come away with a good result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTwTi-UeQ7s

Brings a tear to any rugby-lover's heart. Fantastic try! Imagine if BOD was on the end of a winning try like this to finish his stellar career in NZ.

KJY

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Am i the only one who thinks Dan Carter isn't as gene creamingly awesome as he is made out to be? I do think he's an incredible player and the best 10 in the world, but he's not the god like figure he's made out to be imo.

Care to point out a weakness?

Swiwi

KJY wrote: »

Care to point out a weakness?

Prone to injury?

Anatidaephobia

Are we announcing our team tonight?

KJY

Swiwi wrote: »

Prone to injury?

About the extent of it. The most complete player I'd say we'll ever see

Swiwi

@anatidaephobia - I assume you avoid posts from duckysauce?

GerM

Carter doesn't really have a significant weakness but I do feel people are in absolute awe of him to a serious extent. He's a great player but he has off days on very rare occasions. He wasn't spectacular in the WC pool stages. Threw a sloppy intercept try and missed a number of kicks. He's human. He's very fluid and has a great all round game without any real weakness which is something that is very rare in an outhalf. ROG can't run or tackle. Wilkinson couldn't get a back line moving. Sexton can be loose with his kicking from hand and has suffered irregularly with goal kicking. When he kicks from hand, Carter does it intelligently. When he runs, he glides and sucks in defenders. When he passes, he does so accurately and crisply.

With that said, he's just a rugby player and can be ran over just like anyone else and makes sloppy errors like anyone else. I'd still have him second to Larkham. Serious case of man love. Rugby was invented to watch people like him play. Rugby made to look absolutely effortless.

durkadurka

Team nameds at midnight

durkadurka

@MichaelC_RTE: Peter O'Mahony, Paddy Wallace and Keith Earls are all included in the @irfurugby team to play @AllBlacks in Hamilton #rterugby

durkadurka

@MichaelC_RTE: @irfurugby team-backs, Rob Kearney, Fergus McFadden, BOD, Paddy Wallace, Keith Earls, Jono Sexton and Conor Murray #rterugby

durkadurka

@MichaelC_RTE: @irfurugby team-forwards, Cian Healy, Rory Best, Mike Ross, D Ryan, Dan Touhy, Keven McLaughlin, Sean O'Brien and Peter O'Mahony #rterugby

GerM

Can we assume: Healy, Best, Ross, Tuohy, Ryan, McLaughlin, SOB, POM, Murray, Sexton, Earls, Wallace, BOD, McFadden, Kearney.

Tox56

Kidney has seen the weakness on the wings, definitely had to be dealt with and Earls isn't a bad man to bring in

durkadurka

@MichaelC_RTE: @irfurugby subs, Sean Cronin, Declan Fitzpatrick, D O'Callaghan, Chris Henry, Eoin Reddan, Ronan O'Gara and Andrew Trimble #rterugbyj

Fireball07

I think that's the team we all wanted...


The only possible changes would be Trimble for McFadden, and Reddan for Murray but having stuck with Murray so far, he was always going to stick with him and I suppose it's the same for McFadden.

Wallace is the best option at 12, Earls is a great winger and POM is the obvious choice for 8. I like this team.

GerM

Gives us Mike Sherry, Brett Wilkinson, Mike McCarthy and Paul Marshall as the official tour tackle bag holders. I'll spare Gavin Duffy's name as he flew out later.

durkadurka

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

GerM

It's a good side with a solid back line minus the frailties at 14. If we had any two of Ferris, POC or Heaslip I'd have genuine reason to think we could do this.

maddragon

Is feidir linn. Roll on Saturday.

Teferi

Earls on the wing

Delighted with that. The man just has a nose for the line when he is on the wing.

Overall that is a fairly positive team for Kidney to pick. Genuinely surprised. Glad to see he is sticking with Touhy. Trimble should probably be switching places with McFadden.