Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

duckysauce

Tox56 wrote: »

Kidney has seen the weakness on the wings, definitely had to be dealt with and Earls isn't a bad man to bring in

The wings have changed

Fireball07

GerM wrote: »

Gives us Mike Sherry, Brett Wilkinson, Mike McCarthy and Paul Marshall as the official tour tackle bag holders. I'll spare Gavin Duffy's name as he flew out later.

Pity...

Marshall is the big one, I'd have liked to see him as a sub at least for one of the game to see if he could make an impact.

Wilkinson's only really an option at loosehead and with Healy's form and the fact that we had Fitzpatrick in already, and Ross was a possible doubt meant we were unlikely to make changes to the front row.

Sherry could have been on the bench for one game but I don't think he's ready for international rugby yet.

And McCarthy can count himself a little unlucky, but he's kept faith with Tuohy. I think McCarthy's probably a bit too old to stake a first-team claim now. Sad for him, he's a good player.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Worried about Wallace and apprehensive about Earls. If both lads are up to standard, it's our best option.

Tox56

duckysauce wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

Kidney has seen the weakness on the wings, definitely had to be dealt with and Earls isn't a bad man to bring in

The wings have changed

That's what I'm saying

Teferi

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

apprehensive about Earls.

As I have said elsewhere many times - the lad is a natural winger and he will be brilliant again there. Mark my words.

duckysauce

Tox56 wrote: »

That's what I'm saying

They have changed for the better, ie better Kiwis wings

Anatidaephobia

Happy with that team. I would have started Reddan, just to give him a proper game, but Murray was grand last week, so no huge problem.

@Swiwi: Eh?

KJY

Best available team, barring MacFadden. Would have been very solid at least with Trimble. I think that back row could go very well, very impressed with POM at 8 in the past

Cpt_Blackbeard

GerM wrote: »

It's a good side with a solid back line minus the frailties at 14. If we had any two of Ferris, POC or Heaslip I'd have genuine reason to think we could do this.

I don't think Heaslip will be a huge loss. He has been playing well, but POM will bring many of the same skills/qualities to the table. The inclusion of either POC or Ferris would give us a very definite upperhand over this NZ side.

Selection wise, Kidney has hugely impressed me this tour. All is not lost. He looks like he is learning his lessons and him seeing out the remainder of his contract doesn't look as gloomy/hopeless as it once did.

Tox56

duckysauce wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

That's what I'm saying

They have changed for the better, ie better Kiwis wings

Lost you there, I was talking about the Irish wings

Cpt_Blackbeard

Teferi wrote: »

As I have said elsewhere many times - the lad is a natural winger and he will be brilliant again there. Mark my words.

He has been brilliant on the wing in the past, but it has been almost a year since he has played there.

duckysauce

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Selection wise, Kidney has hugely impressed me this tour. All is not lost. He looks like he is learning his lessons and him seeing out the remainder of his contract doesn't look as gloomy/hopeless as it once did.

Selection wise it was a mess switching bod and earls on the first test .

Cpt_Blackbeard

duckysauce wrote: »

Selection wise it was a mess switching bod and earls on the first test .

It really wasn't. Our centre selection was the least of our problems. Had Kiss been proactive rather than reactive with our defensive structure, we would have had a hugely improved performance.

Careful Now

Why not finally give mcfadden a run at 12 and put trimble on the wing. Thoughts of SBW running over wallace frighten me.

Podge_irl

Am very happy with that team. I think I would probably have moved Trimble over to the right wing and dropped McFadden to the bench but otherwise more or less how I would have liked to see it.

Now to see how they approach the game. I look forward to it.

JoeyDoh

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I don't think Heaslip will be a huge loss. He has been playing well, but POM will bring many of the same skills/qualities to the table. The inclusion of either POC or Ferris would give us a very definite upperhand over this NZ side.

Selection wise, Kidney has hugely impressed me this tour. All is not lost. He looks like he is learning his lessons and him seeing out the remainder of his contract doesn't look as gloomy/hopeless as it once did.

Come on man, there's provincial bias but you're comparing him to what was the Lions starting 8. POM has a long way to go before being considered in the same breath as Heaslip. Even with his " drop in form" .

CatFromHue

JoeyDoh wrote: »

Come on man, there's provincial bias but you're comparing him to what was the Lions starting 8. POM has a long way to go before being considered in the same breath as Heaslip. Even with his " drop in form" .

I guess we'll find out on Saturday. It's a big test for the man but you sometimes don't realise what you got til it's gone.

twinytwo

Careful Now wrote: »

Why not finally give mcfadden a run at 12 and put trimble on the wing. Thoughts of SBW running over wallace frighten me.

So you think he would run over wallace but not mcfadden????

He has been well looked after for the last two games... i expect the same again.

Cpt_Blackbeard

JoeyDoh wrote: »

Come on man, there's provincial bias but you're comparing him to what was the Lions starting 8. POM has a long way to go before being considered in the same breath as Heaslip. Even with his " drop in form" .

Lets compare both lads, will we?

Both are very skillful forwards who are great at linking with backs. Both are good ball carriers, but they thrive on smart lines/footwork to break the line, as they don't have noteworthy power. Both are very fast backrow forwards. Both are accomplished at stealing the ball on the ground. Both are very good in the lineout. Both captain their province when the primary captain is away.

On the face of it, it looks to me like they are pretty similar players. They have similar skillsets. Despite your insinuations, I never stated that POM is a better player than Heaslip.

Hagz

I don't think there was any bias in what Blackbeard said. POM is very much in the mould of a Heaslip. He is good in the line-out, strong ball carrier, good at the breakdown. He's not as good as Heaslip, but he'll do his best to pretend.

Careful Now

twinytwo wrote: »

So you think he would run over wallace but not mcfadden????

He has been well looked after for the last two games... i expect the same again.

Considering mcfadden is a stone and a half heavier than wallace yes of course I think he is more likely to be run over by SBW than if it was mcfadden.

twinytwo

Careful Now wrote: »

Considering mcfadden is a stone and a half heavier than wallace yes of course I think he is more likely to be run over by SBW than if it was mcfadden.

considering a person weight has virtually nothing to do with weather they get run over or not( unless you take the difference to extremes) and more to do with bad positioning/technique i cant really see where you are going with this.

Podge_irl

twinytwo wrote: »

considering a person weight has virtually nothing to do with weather they get run over or not( unless you take the difference to extremes) and more to do with bad positioning/technique i cant really see where you are going with this.

Indeed. The two Leinster backs least likely to ever be run over in the tackle are BOD and Fitzgerald and neither are enormous. They just both have excellent tackling technique and good positioning in defence.

Careful Now

Podge_irl wrote: »

Indeed. The two Leinster backs least likely to ever be run over in the tackle are BOD and Fitzgerald and neither are enormous. They just both have excellent tackling technique and good positioning in defence.

I consider both of them equally adept at tackling so therefore I would bring into account the weight diff. Also cant see how he dropped wallace from squad then brings him from home all the way over to nz instead of giving mcfadden a shot seeing as kidney was clearly starting to faze wallace out of squad. Kidney really mustnt see mcfadden as an option at 12 at all.

Podge_irl

I don't think Kidney has ever played McFadden at 12.

twinytwo

Careful Now wrote: »

I consider both of them equally adept at tackling so therefore I would bring into account the weight diff. Also cant see how he dropped wallace from squad then brings him from home all the way over to nz instead of giving mcfadden a shot seeing as kidney was clearly starting to faze wallace out of squad. Kidney really mustnt see mcfadden as an option at 12 at all.

given the defensive problems mcfadden has had in the last 2 games i wouldnt play him at 12 either....

totallegend

I'm disappointed by that team. Kidney is chasing the result that will redeem his reputation at the expense of any sort of squad development.

if we win, I'll be delighted but the team will land back in Dublin and what will we have learned? That Tuohy is good but not as good as O'Connell, that Fitzpatrick needs to hit the treadmill and that Earls is not a 12? Great, they could have saved the airfare.

What about Cave? Seven minutes off the bench in the first test. Loughney? Could well be the best option as sub prop but we just don't know. Brett Wilkinson must be delighted with having been involved in yet another squad and still have no caps.

The probability is that we'll come home with three defeats and be none the wiser as to where this squad is going. I'm sick of it.

Fishooks12

durkadurka wrote: »

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

Fair ****s Kidney, we were bound to agree on a team at some stage

Fishooks12

Hagz wrote: »

I don't think there was any bias in what Blackbeard said. POM is very much in the mould of a Heaslip. He is good in the line-out, strong ball carrier, good at the breakdown. He's not as good as Heaslip, but he'll do his best to pretend.

+1

It's worth noting that he does really have a good knowledge on the game despite the one eyed element to it

Fishooks12

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think Kidney has ever played McFadden at 12.

and it's clear that he doesn't intend to. So we may aswell drop the idea while Kidney is in charge