Ireland Tour to New Zealand 2012 Discussion thread

Fireball07

Fishooks12 wrote: »

+1

It's worth noting that he does really have a good knowledge on the game despite the one eyed element to it

Without wanting to take this off-topic, I do think his bias is way overstated. I know that as a fellow biased Munster fan I might be more likely to say that but the Captain is a good poster really. Some people jump on everything he says when he's actually making a good point.

Tomtom364

I need to not be awake at this time so much...

Irish team for the weekend

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/26752.php

IRELAND Team & Replacements (v New Zealand, Steinlager Series, Waikato Stadium, Hamilton, Saturday, June 23, kick-off 7.35pm local time/8.35am Irish time):
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Replacements:
16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)



Reactions:
- Not a fan of bringing Wallace in so cold, would rather Mcfadden or Earls named in the Centre with BOD
- Think Gilroy + Zebo can feel a lil hard done by to not make the bench for this, I felt Trimble brought very little more to the table last week so why not give the young lads some more experience, its what they're there for isnt it?

- Glad to see POM getting the start along with Locky and SOB, will be an interesting battle for the day.

thomond2006

durkadurka wrote: »

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
6 - Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
17 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster)
18 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19 - Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

Good team, it's disappointing for the likes of Sherry, Wilkinson et al (including Cave) to not get a run out but this is a big chance to beat New Zealand and it's only right we go for it.

Wallace's selection does make a mockery of his initial non inclusion in the squad mind.

irishbucsfan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Fair ****s Kidney, we were bound to agree on a team at some stage

You wanted Zebo to start!

irishbucsfan

I'm very happy with that team.

I wouldve preferred O'Mahony on the bench due to what a great impact he made from there last week, but then I've no real problem with him starting after how he played for Munster there as the season died down. I hope he's up to it, this will be the biggest ask of his career so far.

Bring em on

Klunk_NZ

duckysauce wrote: »

arrogance is great :rolleyes:

Best first five of all time and best current number 8 are pretty huge losses, there's no arrogance in what I'm saying, those players are good that you listed. But I genuinely would not swap them for Carter an Read.

Swiwi

Swiwi wrote: »

@anatidaephobia - I assume you avoid posts from duckysauce?

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

Happy with that team. I would have started Reddan, just to give him a proper game, but Murray was grand last week, so no huge problem.

@Swiwi: Eh?

Have you googled the definition of anatidaephobia?

wp_rathead

Great to see Wallace get the start he has deserved for a long long time

Also great to see Earls back on the wing!

Shame there will be no appearances by Wilkinson, Macca, Cave and Marshall in this series though.. the tour could have done with us playing NZ Maori in a midweek game ala England's SA tour..

looking forward to the game :cool:

Otacon

Happy enough with the team selection. Hopefully we can bring the same work-rate we had last week. With a bit of luck this time out, we may do it.

I just hope Poite is consistant. We have a very competitive scrum which will hopefully give us the platform we need. With Murray playing better, Wallace coming in and Earls back, we should see some more attacking play.

GerM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Lets compare both lads, will we?

Both are very skillful forwards who are great at linking with backs. Both are good ball carriers, but they thrive on smart lines/footwork to break the line, as they don't have noteworthy power. Both are very fast backrow forwards. Both are accomplished at stealing the ball on the ground. Both are very good in the lineout. Both captain their province when the primary captain is away.

On the face of it, it looks to me like they are pretty similar players. They have similar skillsets. Despite your insinuations, I never stated that POM is a better player than Heaslip.

To me that is, to use an extreme example, similar to saying Niall Ronan and Brussouw are comparable. Both are good at linking, both opensides, both very good on the deck. POM is currently similar to a 22 year old Heaslip, not the current one.

POM is a massively talented bloke but he is nowhere near the same level of power of Heaslip and we're not talking about power to smash through tackles. Power is required in all facets and Heaslip has it there sliding into mauls, pulling people out, counter rucking, not being moved when slowing down ball. I think we'll see a different game plan being used this week with POM taking the ball a little wider and using his mobility to get into space which will utilise him better. He's only going to get better but right now we need to ensure his talent is put to its most effective use. We've seen him sucked into dog fights this season and struggle.

thomond2006

McCaw at number 8 is interesting, he doesn't strike me as an explosive player who will make yards off scrums.

GerM

thomond2006 wrote: »

McCaw at number 8 is interesting, he doesn't strike me as an explosive player who will make yards off scrums.

He's not really but he's a calm player who is more mobile than he gets credit for and has very good hands. Has played there a fair bit in his career including this season. Expect him to just keep things under control there and to still be buried into all the rucks. They could have easily put Messam there but declined.

Clareman

I figured McCaw is at 8 to try to stop the whole "double shove" scrum Ireland are deploying, I wouldn't be surprised if the 6 & 7 are instructed to stay down till their sure the ball is out while McCaw is given license to break.

POM is a good call, Heaslip is a massive loss in the line out, it's great testament to the squad that 3 of the main line out targets from the last few years aren't playing but there doesn't seem to be a drop in quality.

boredatwork82

Happy enough with that team. POM has big boots to fill. Heaslips tackle count has been phenomenal.

The only change I would make is that I would have any winger starting ahead of McFadden. I just don't rate him as an international standard player.

But I would keep him on the bench, due to his utility value.

Teferi

Clareman wrote: »

POM is a good call, Heaslip is a massive loss in the line out, it's great testament to the squad that 3 of the main line out targets from the last few years aren't playing but there doesn't seem to be a drop in quality.

Our lineout has actually improved this series compared to what it has been the last season or so.

Otacon

boredatwork82 wrote: »

I just don't rate him as an international standard player winger.

FYP

Grimebox

Tomtom364 wrote: »

- Think Gilroy + Zebo can feel a lil hard done by to not make the bench for this, I felt Trimble brought very little more to the table last week so why not give the young lads some more experience, its what they're there for isnt it?

According to this Zebo is on the bench. Which is correct?

fitz

Grimebox wrote: »

According to this Zebo is on the bench. Which is correct?

That link has Trimble on the bench... ?

Grimebox

fitz wrote: »

That link has Trimble on the bench... ?

Sorry wrong link

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/irish/2012/0621/325899-kidney-names-strongest-xv-for-third-nz-test/

I guess the IRFU's official website should have the correct team

d-gal

Good team but plenty of squad players will be annoyed they didn't get a shot. Mike McCarthy must be going mental. Tuohy with 2 average games and DOC on the bench and he still doesn't get a look in. Bad management IMO.
There def should have been a mid week game. The likes of D Kearney, TOH, Griffin, Muldoon, Gilroy, Marshall, Cave, Sherry, Wilko and Loughney would have benefitted hugely from that. Another brainfart by the IRFU

Happy with the team. McFadden and Trimble swap would be slightly better, but not worth worrying about.

I've given into the IRFU short-term-goal orientated results thinking.

If we win this, the AIs become absolute nothing games, and mean that we can get Cave, Marshall, Spence, Gilroy, Zebo, Madigan et all some exposure.

Lose it, and we see the same XXII facing the Tongans etc.

A win here means that we can "afford" to trial new options in the Autumn. If we do win this weekend, and subsequently don't trial new options, then I'm afraid the sarcophagus around Kidney and probably some of the IRFU should be sealed.

bilston

Good selection, like others I'd have had Trimble over McFadden but Ned didn't really set the world on fire last week but nor did McFadden and I'd have more faith in his defence than McFadden's. Anyway it's a relatively minor gripe at this stage. The selection of Wallace was inevitable once he was called up, not even Deccie would send someone halfway round the world to hold tackle bags for a couple of days. He deserves it based on his form this season but I worry about him coming in so cold, apparently he was sunning himself on a beach in Portugal last week! Glad to see POM at No.8 with SOB sticking at O/S, he's come on hugely at 7 this season.

The Thanks For Coming awards can now be handed out as well, oh well at least Ulster won't have to hold Marshall back at the start of next season when Pienaar is probably going to be away with SA!

cp

totallegend wrote: »

I'm disappointed by that team. Kidney is chasing the result that will redeem his reputation at the expense of any sort of squad development.

if we win, I'll be delighted but the team will land back in Dublin and what will we have learned? That Tuohy is good but not as good as O'Connell, that Fitzpatrick needs to hit the treadmill and that Earls is not a 12? Great, they could have saved the airfare.

What about Cave? Seven minutes off the bench in the first test. Loughney? Could well be the best option as sub prop but we just don't know. Brett Wilkinson must be delighted with having been involved in yet another squad and still have no caps.

The probability is that we'll come home with three defeats and be none the wiser as to where this squad is going. I'm sick of it.

That's harsh TBF. The psychological advantage of getting the all blacks hoodoo off our backs is far more important IMO. And besides, we've seen what, 2/3 new caps on this tour? Cave didn't exactly cover himself in glory in his cameo and I'd expect Henry to get a substantial run in this game given the ferocious nature of the back-line battle.. We've also seen some sort of experimentation with formation.

As regards the front row, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the last international Ireland will play with the 22 man squad rule? I thought I read somewhere that they'll be using 23 man squads in the November internationals, therefore negating the need for dual sided props going forward?

Monty Burnz

Otacon wrote: »

I just hope Poite is consistant. We have a very competitive scrum which will hopefully give us the platform we need. With Murray playing better, Wallace coming in and Earls back, we should see some more attacking play.

If I had Poite refereeing my team, I'd tell them them to drive the other team back at the first scrum by hook or by crook, by any cheating means necessary. Poite only seems to notice which way the scrum goes, and penalises the life out of whoever travels backwards.

cp

cp wrote: »

Cave didn't exactly cover himself in glory in his cameo

7 minutes is barely long enough to have 2 scrums and a penalty kick, let alone cover yourself in glory.

Otacon

cp wrote: »

As regards the front row, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the last international Ireland will play with the 22 man squad rule? I thought I read somewhere that they'll be using 23 man squads in the November internationals, therefore negating the need for dual sided props going forward?

???

Link?

chris85

happy with the backrow also, good decision to leave SOB where he is and put POM at 8.

I dont like the call of Wallace at 12 either as do so many. He is not at this standard, Ferg would be suited more in there. Or give Cave a shot I would be happier with either choice.

The front row battle should be good to watch. I expect SOb to make a nuisance of himself at the breakdown as he did last week.

Zzippy

Otacon wrote: »

???

Link?

Its on a trial basis for the Autumn internationals, but I would imagine it will be implemented full time after that.

http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediazone/pressrelease/newsid=2062222.html#irb+unions+sanction+global+law+trials

A trial has been sanctioned for the November 2012 Test window permitting international teams to nominate up to eight replacements in the match day squad for Test matches. In line with current practice at domestic elite Rugby level, the additional player must be a qualified front row player.

Fishooks12

chris85 wrote: »

happy with the backrow also, good decision to leave SOB where he is and put POM at 8.

I dont like the call of Wallace at 12 either as do so many. He is not at this standard, Ferg would be suited more in there. Or give Cave a shot I would be happier with either choice.

The front row battle should be good to watch. I expect SOb to make a nuisance of himself at the breakdown as he did last week.

He's the best 12 in Ireland right now IMO

bamboozle

am quiet happy with the team except i think there is an unfair burden on Wallace to come into the 3rd test having not played in 4 weeks. NZ will aim to exploit this.

NZ having 2 7's in their back row is a good indication of the respect they have for SOB.

for me it is crucial that BOD remained at 13 this weekend and was not moved to 12 to facilitate Earls. BOD's defence at 13 is crucial.

I'd have started Trimble in his natural position at 14, however McFadden after 3 tests is going to be more used to playing 14. I wish some folk would appreciate that McFadden's defence at 14 in the first test should not be a template against which to benchmark his ability to play & defend at 12 which is his natural position.

Hopefully Loccy's work close in will enable POM to roam the field looking to carry ball. POM's selection will probably ensure SOB's ball carrying will be limited.

I'm excited at prospect, NZ less Carter & Reed are there for the taking. i fully expect to see SOB introducing himself to Cruden early on...

i expect further improvements this week from a fitter Ross and Touhy who i thought left an impact last week.