Bob Dylan v Rappers who think they are poets.

lordgoat

rcaz wrote: »

I don't think anyone's going to convince you cloptrop. This whole thread is kinda like a playground for you to disagree with everyone. Which is fine, I just don't see the point to this thread anymore.

rcaz wrote: »

So all artists should only try to express their own personal experiences? Telling imaginary stories automatically leads to empty art with no substance? Right.

Don't indulge, if you frequent soccer you'd have a better understanding of this thread.

Also Dylan, total thief and charlatan. Give some credit where it's due Bob, how many songs did you borrow and forget where you heard them first.

Rap > Dylan.

paddyandy

Pop Music is over .Rap is S C R A P I N G the bottom of an empty barrel . It's not music of ANY kind ...it's something else ...

rcaz

paddyandy wrote: »

Pop Music is over .Rap is S C R A P I N G the bottom of an empty barrel . It's not music of ANY kind ...it's something else ...

You keep saying that, but you haven't really responded to any of the other posts in this thread, or given a good explanation of your opinions. Why?

Irish Guitarist

The lyrics to The Tower by Ice T stand up even without the music. I'm not going to post them because the swear filter would make them look rubbish but here's a link - http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/icet/thetower.html I don't know about poetry, but they tell a story.

I think it's kind of ridiculous to say rap is better than the music of Bob Dylan because he's a 'thief' when most rap is based on samples of other peoples music and often uses lines from other songs. And that's not a criticism of rap. Bob Dylan sometimes uses lines from poetry to write songs and make something new; rappers often make something new from other music.

I don't really get the point of a lot of music forum discussions where people pick two artists/bands or two genres of music and try to make out there's some big battle of the bands thing going on between them, when in reality they either have some respect for each others music or just aren't bothered by it.

paddyandy

rcaz wrote: »

You keep saying that, but you haven't really responded to any of the other posts in this thread, or given a good explanation of your opinions. Why?

My browser refused to open dodgy links on another forum thread and we got warnings about them and i can't afford a trip to the pc shop .

rcaz

paddyandy wrote: »

My browser refused to open dodgy links on another forum thread and we got warnings about them and i can't afford a trip to the pc shop .

Right... I'll just type that up on my invisible typewriter!

cloptrop

budgemook wrote: »

Cloptrop you never answered my post

Im trying dude , Ill look through it next , just keep getting trolled by people claiming they know it all and tupac should be the next shakespeare.

paddyandy

I don't retract one word .

Da Shins Kelly

cloptrop wrote: »

Im trying dude , Ill look through it next , just keep getting trolled by people claiming they know it all and tupac should be the next shakespeare.

Well, now you're just putting words in people's mouths. You love making stuff up don't you?

cloptrop

budgemook wrote: »

Poetry or not cloptrop? To be honest, you seem to know more about it than I do so I'm genuinely interested in what you think:

Started good then descended into picking words that rythmed with each other after a few lines , then just got silly lobotomy snitches /stitches/my leg twitches . Sorry if you wrote tnis yourself and im offendkng you . First part was decent i thought . Im no specialist though .

cloptrop

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Well, now you're just putting words in people's mouths. You love making stuff up don't you?

Yeah man whatever , dont you have a project to do about nas being a leaving cert subject or something .

rcaz

cloptrop wrote: »

Yeah man whatever , dont you have a project to do about nas being a leaving cert subject or something .

Oh come on, don't open a discussion thread and then insult posters who are trying to have a fair argument with you.

Da Shins Kelly

cloptrop wrote: »

Yeah man whatever , dont you have a project to do about nas being a leaving cert subject or something .

Great comeback, as always.

guitarzero

Eminems ability to story tell is second to none.

"Brain Damage"

[Doctor] Scalpel
[Nurse] Here
[Doctor] Sponge
[Nurse] Here
[Doctor] Wait.. he's convulsing, he's convulsing!
[Nurse] Ah!
[Doctor] We're gonna have to shock him!
[Nurse] Oh my! Oh my God!
[Doctor] We're gonna have to shock him!
[Nurse] Oh my God!

[Eminem]
These are the results of a thousand electric volts
A neck with bolts, "Nurse we're losin him, check the pulse!"
A kid who refused to respect adults
Wore spectacles with taped frames and a freckled nose
A corny lookin white boy, scrawny and always ornery
Cause I was always sick of brawny bullies pickin on me
And I might snap, one day just like that
I decided to strike back and flatten every tire on the bike rack
(Whosssssh) My first day in junior high, this kid said,
"It's you and I, three o'clock sharp this afternoon you die"
I looked at my watch it was one twenty
"I already gave you my lunch money what more do you want from me?!?"
He said, "Don't try to run from me, you'll just make it worse..."
My palms were sweaty, and I started to shake at first
Something told me, "Try to fake a stomach ache it works"
I screamed, "Owww! My appendix feels like they could burst!
Teacher, teacher, quick I need a naked nurse!"
[N] "What's the matter?"
[E] "I don't know, my leg, it hurts!"
[N] "Leg?!? I thought you said it was your tummy?!?"
[E] "Oh, I mean it is, but I also got a bum knee!"
[N] "Mr. Mathers, the fun and games are over.
And just for that stunt, you're gonna get some extra homework."
[E] "But don't you wanna give me after school detention?"
[N] "Nah, that bully wants to beat your ass and I'ma let him."

[Chorus: repeat 2X]

Brain damage, ever since the day I was born
Drugs is what they used to say I was on
They say I never knew which way I was goin
But everywhere I go they keep playin my song

[Eminem]
Brain damage..
Way before my baby daughter Hailey
I was harassed daily by this fat kid named D'Angelo Bailey
An eighth grader who acted obnoxious, cause his father boxes
so everyday he'd shove me in the lockers
One day he came in the bathroom while I was pissin
And had me in the position to beat me into submission
He banged my head against the urinal til he broke my nose,
Soaked my clothes in blood, grabbed me and choked my throat
I tried to plead and tell him, "We shouldn't beef"
But he just wouldn't leave, he kept chokin me and I couldn't breathe
He looked at me and said, "You gonna die honkey!"
The principal walked in (What's going on in here?)
and started helpin him stomp me
I made them think they beat me to death
Holdin my breath for like five minutes before they finally left
Then I got up and ran to the janitor's storage booth
Kicked the door hinge loose and ripped out the four inch screws
Grabbed some sharp objects, brooms, and foreign tools
"This is for every time you took my orange juice,
or stole my seat in the lunchroom and drank my chocolate milk.
Every time you tipped my tray and it dropped and spilt.
I'm gettin you back bully! Now once and for good."
I cocked the broomstick back and swung hard as I could
and beat him over the head with it til I broke the wood
Knocked him down, stood on his chest with one foot..
.. Made it home, later that same day
Started reading a comic, and suddenly everything became gray
I couldn't even see what I was tryin to read
I went deaf, and my left ear started to bleed
My mother started screamin, "What are you on, drugs?!?
Look at you, you're gettin blood all over my rug!" (Sorry!)
She beat me over the head with the remote control
opened a hole, and my whole brain fell out of my skull
I picked it up and screamed, "Look bitch, what have you done?!?"
[M] "Oh my God, I'm sorry son"
[E] "Shut up you ****!" I said, "**** it!"
Took it and stuck it back up in my head
then I sewed it shut and put a couple of screws in my neck

[Chorus]

[Eminem]
Brain damage..
It's brain damage..
I got brain damage..
It's brain damage..
It's probably brain damage..
It's brain damage..
Brain damage..
I got brain damage..

lordgoat

I can't stand it when people post entire song lyrics on threads.

Waste of time. imo.

guitarzero

lordgoat wrote: »

I can't stand it when people post entire song lyrics on threads.

Waste of time. imo.

Well...you're wrong.

lordgoat

guitarzero wrote: »

Well...you're wrong.

Pray tell what illuminating insight your post with the entirity of an average eminem song brought to ththe thread.

You basically said:

Eminem is great.

Quote song.


Grade A dude.

Ironically your next post generated more discussion.

cloptrop

lordgoat wrote: »

Pray tell what illuminating insight your post with the entirity of an average eminem song brought to ththe thread.

You basically said:

Eminem is great.

Quote song.


Grade A dude.

Ironically your next post generated more discussion.

In all fairness he quoted some great lyrics to back up his statement . He didn call anyones character into question . And he didnt drag up stuff from a football forum from months ago . Maybe you should try this philosophy or else go back to discussing how king kenny is going to save liverpool or how you just love the away kit . This is a discussion on poetry i think quoting the lyrics is quite important .

Varkov

Del's always got an important message.



It's important to practice good hygiene
At least if you wanna run with my team
I'm bout to get into some **** that I've seen
This fool's breath, I mean so bad it'll melt your ice cream
They say don't say nothing if you can't say nice things
Sittin too close to him it burned(?) like my eyes sting
I try to be subtle, hand him a stick of gum
I was a victim of breath on him
Running his yap about what sets he from
Gotta get some gum gotta get him some
He turned it down, his teeth was brown
Excruciating for him and it was a new sensation
I had to ask the dope to pass the soap
Cuz his toe had the sniff of crustaceans
Or bathrooms in a bus station
He had a can of Olde E and some raisins
Amazing... head to toe B.O.
He didn't know, used to the fragrance
Just as the days went without bathing
He felt manly and not like a maiden
He had one dread, and fungus
Said he worked on peoples' toilets with plungers
Girls let the guy you were with ????
So guys take your cue from this number

You gotta wash your ass, if you must
You gotta wash your hair, if you must
You gotta brush your teeth, if you must
Or else you'll be funkyyyyyyyy

Midlife Crashes

I think some Lil Wayne lyrics are masterpieces and far better than anything Dylan could produce

Ok, pop that pussy and shake that ass,
Pop that pussy and shake that ass,
I say pop that pussy and shake that ass,
Pop that pussy and shake that ass,
You got to pop that pussy and shake that ass,
Pop that pussy and shake that ass
And no ceilings
And no ceilings
And no ceilings
Yeah,

Ok,
Pockets on he-man,
I get it if I demand,
Man I do it big, to me you niggas wee man,
Bout to go pecans, I beat it like 3 hands,
Weezy in the building you other niggas freelance,
I don't give a f-zzuck,
I done got my **** up,
I gotta do a bit, that's push ups, sit ups,
**** with young money bitch nigga get hit up,
nigga **** pay even **** wid us,
I'm a eastside nigga yeah eastside nigga,
Where the mutha****ing beef gets deep fried nigga,
nigga could'ntsee me with 3 eyes nigga,
You's a bitch,
No U-N-I-T-Y nigga
On the mic I'm like pac, I'm like B-I nigga,
Whoever don't agree come and see my nigga,
I be waiting in my mansion seaside nigga,
Young mutha****ing M-O-N-E-Y...

[singing:]
Hate no, hate no
I don't wanna hate no, hate no,
But they keep pushing me, pushing me
But they keep pushing me, pushing me
I don't wanna hate nobody tonight,
I don't wanna hate nobody tonight,
But they keep pushing me, pushing me
Everyday pushing me, pushing me

[Chorus]

[Lil Wayne:]
Ok, Cool n Dre,
This is no ceilings,
I do this all day I got bars, no railings,
Looking for a bitch for some sexual healing,
Open up her mouth and she catch it like Braylon,
Young Weezy F, the F is not for failing,
Swagger just dumb call it Sarah Palin,
If you niggas fly then I must be para-sailing,
We are not the same, I'm a mutha****ing alien,

[Birdman:]
Back on my saddle with the tool and my hand
Uptown real nigga bitch landed in the sand,
Back home nigga did it for the land
For the grand with the money with the tool in my hand
High life, give a **** about your stripes homey,
Killer kill, kill a spend your... daily homie,
Turn left get your switch turned of nigga,
Turn right and get your **** took off nigga,
**** cause we higher than we ever been,
More loaded, white doves, burning hundreds,
Overseas nigga pitching on the top floor,
High floor situation from the bottom floor,
Born in the middle, shining like a diamond,
Red diamonds, big diamonds how we roll nigga,
24's ****ing all these hoes nigga,
High life getting money then we go nigga,

Like father like son boy...

guitarzero

lordgoat wrote: »

Pray tell what illuminating insight your post with the entirity of an average eminem song brought to ththe thread.

You basically said:

Eminem is great.

Quote song.


Grade A dude.

Ironically your next post generated more discussion.

Indeed, indeed, yah, mmmm!

This thread was about lyrics and rappers so it was entirely relevant. I think it's a great story told through verse and poetry. Again, pretty enriching for this particular thread.

If you dislike this rap song then fire away, but if you dislike the nature of my post then just go back to bed, pal.

guitarzero

Midlife Crashes wrote: »

I think some Lil Wayne lyrics are masterpieces and far better than anything Dylan could produce

Ok, pop that pussy and shake that ass,
Pop that pussy and shake that ass,
I say pop that pussy and shake that ass,
Pop that pussy and shake that ass,
You got to pop that pussy and shake that ass,
Pop that pussy and shake that ass
And no ceilings
And no ceilings
And no ceilings
Yeah,

Ok,
Pockets on he-man,
I get it if I demand,
Man I do it big, to me you niggas wee man,
Bout to go pecans, I beat it like 3 hands,
Weezy in the building you other niggas freelance,
I don't give a f-zzuck,
I done got my **** up,
I gotta do a bit, that's push ups, sit ups,
**** with young money bitch nigga get hit up,
nigga **** pay even **** wid us,
I'm a eastside nigga yeah eastside nigga,
Where the mutha****ing beef gets deep fried nigga,
nigga could'ntsee me with 3 eyes nigga,
You's a bitch,
No U-N-I-T-Y nigga
On the mic I'm like pac, I'm like B-I nigga,
Whoever don't agree come and see my nigga,
I be waiting in my mansion seaside nigga,
Young mutha****ing M-O-N-E-Y...

[singing:]
Hate no, hate no
I don't wanna hate no, hate no,
But they keep pushing me, pushing me
But they keep pushing me, pushing me
I don't wanna hate nobody tonight,
I don't wanna hate nobody tonight,
But they keep pushing me, pushing me
Everyday pushing me, pushing me

[Chorus]

[Lil Wayne:]
Ok, Cool n Dre,
This is no ceilings,
I do this all day I got bars, no railings,
Looking for a bitch for some sexual healing,
Open up her mouth and she catch it like Braylon,
Young Weezy F, the F is not for failing,
Swagger just dumb call it Sarah Palin,
If you niggas fly then I must be para-sailing,
We are not the same, I'm a mutha****ing alien,

[Birdman:]
Back on my saddle with the tool and my hand
Uptown real nigga bitch landed in the sand,
Back home nigga did it for the land
For the grand with the money with the tool in my hand
High life, give a **** about your stripes homey,
Killer kill, kill a spend your... daily homie,
Turn left get your switch turned of nigga,
Turn right and get your **** took off nigga,
**** cause we higher than we ever been,
More loaded, white doves, burning hundreds,
Overseas nigga pitching on the top floor,
High floor situation from the bottom floor,
Born in the middle, shining like a diamond,
Red diamonds, big diamonds how we roll nigga,
24's ****ing all these hoes nigga,
High life getting money then we go nigga,

Like father like son boy...

Bro, you all right? That sounded like someone talking in their sleep, the word 'random' and 'bullsh*t' comes to mind. Like, he didnt actually say anything...that means...anything.

Donnielighto

:pac::pac: > Dylan*

*Bob Dylan, not Dylan Moran

cloptrop

So we are decided there is nt one rapper that has anything lyrical that could pass as replacement bob dylan .

The closest we seem the have is

Shake that ass
Watch yoself
Shake that ass
Show me what yer werkin with

Or some other nursery rythme that pretty much says I had a hard life and a thesaurus please gimme some cheddar. Followed by some derogatory terms for the black community .
We did have one or two "poems" produced but lets face it they were hardly something they would sell without the stolen backing track , gold chains and bitches in the video .
Im starting to feel that rap fans are in love with the lifestyle , sovereign ring cap on sideways stuff accompanied by a dido backing track rather than any lyrical content . If they feel different they are kidding themselves.

rcaz

cloptrop wrote: »

So we are decided there is nt one rapper that has anything lyrical that could pass as replacement bob dylan .

No, you're decided, but you've always been decided and that was never going to change no matter what anyone posted in your 'discussion'. I'm still waiting for you to respond to the post I made with the Blackalicious tune in it. But I don't expect you to, 'cause it doesn't fit in with your narrow idea of all hip hop as uninspired gangster rap.

cloptrop wrote: »

Im starting to feel that rap fans are in love with the lifestyle , sovereign ring cap on sideways stuff accompanied by a dido backing track rather than any lyrical content . If they feel different they are kidding themselves.

And if you're trying to say Stan isn't an amazing example of story telling, are you kidding me?

jaffacakesyum

I love rap/hip hop music but no lyrics have even come close to Bob Dylan's standards. And I'd be a Dylan fan but by no means an expert.

I find it very hard to find a rapper/hip hop artist who doesn't have at least a handful of derogatory songs. Which is sad.

For example, one of my favourite rappers right now is J Cole. He raps about a lot of real issues like abortion and I think he's brilliant. Yet he still has lyrics like this:

Nigga how high, so high that I could touch the sky
How sick, so sick that I could fúck yo’ bitch
Nigga please, my squad stack plenty of G’s
And if your girl like to smoke we got plenty of trees

Same goes for Eminem. 'Stan' is one of the best rap songs out there in my opinion. Yet he still releases crap like 'Shake That' and 'Ass Like That'.

Sinfonia

paddyandy wrote: »

Melody is music .Rap has NO melody or Notes from music . therefore it is not music of ANY sort kind or type .????? Is that CLEAR ?

Everything carries a frequency; some are even inaudible to the human ear (for children this typically ranges from 20Hz - 20000Hz, for adults 20Hz-16000Hz).
By definition, any utterance from the mouth of a person carries a frequency, which is a note. Notes are not derived from music; rather music is derived from the great swell of notes/frequencies/vibrations.
You cannot define the boundaries of 'music' by the twelve equal-tempered pitches of Western music, nor can you restrict it to the typical frequency range of, say, an orchestra (usually from about 40Hz - 5000Hz). The discussion on 'what is music' has been around for a very long time, and continues.

'Melody' is a loose term which describes a monophonic line, without any reference to structure (wherein terms such as 'theme' are typically used).
It is a single aspect of music theory and composition, and does not define even the basis of 'music'. Therefore melody does not equal music.

In summary, get a grip.

smokedeels

The throw-away moment of realisation during the last lines of Stan don't work for me at all.

"Come to think about it, his name was... it was you"

I don't rate Eminem.

smokedeels

lordgoat wrote: »

I can't stand it when people post entire song lyrics on threads.

Waste of time. imo.

Same here, people should link to the full lyrics and simply post a small section if they need to backup a point.

And if songs lyrics are being compared to poems then folks need to analyse them as such, copy/pasting something and remarking ".....isn't it great?" doesn't cut-it.

lordgoat

smokedeels wrote: »

Same here, people should link to the full lyrics and simply post a small section if they need to backup a point.

And if songs lyrics are being compared to poems then folks need to analyse them as such, copy/pasting something and remarking ".....isn't it great?" doesn't cut-it.

+1.

What's the point in going. i like x, here's a song i like.

No context, a lazy and week argument.

I heard Black Steel by PE on the way home. What a song, passion, meaning and a powerful delivery.