Importing a rifle to Ireland from the U.S.?

Capt. Jas. Hook

Hi. I don't post very often, but I would like to know if anyone has an answer to this question. Maybe it's a stupid question; I don't know.

I currently live in the U.S., but am an Irish citizen. I will be moving to Ireland this summer.

I have an old rifle that is somewhat important to me for sentimental reasons and I was planning on just storing it with a friend in case I ever return to the States, but then I got to talking to someone in Ireland who told me that their father had a shotgun that originally came from New York City and that got me wondering how they got it over there. Of course it's possible that he was confused about the shotgun's country of origin.

Either way, does anyone happen to know what the laws and/or procedures are about a private citizen importing a single firearm into Ireland? I've Googled like mad trying to find an answer to this and all I've been able to find is information that doesn't apply to me, such as information relating to dealers trying to import larger quantities of firearms or that sort of thing.
Thanks.

Witcher

Have a look at this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056592294

Scrag

If you hold it legally in the USA you should not have a problem. Contact customs and excise and the Gardai for an Irish permit. If they ahve a problem they will let you know.

Capt. Jas. Hook

Thanks! I did not see that. He is bringing a bolt action. The rifle I have is an M1 Garand, so I don't even know if it would be legal.

Capt. Jas. Hook

Thanks Scrag.

Witcher

Capt. Jas. Hook wrote: »

Thanks! I did not see that. He is bringing a bolt action. The rifle I have is an M1 Garand, so I don't even know if it would be legal.

It will be classed as a restricted firearm here but you can still get a licence for it:)

Grizzly 45

The rifle I have is an M1 Garand, so I don't even know if it would be legal.

30.06? It will put it in the" Restricted " class of firearms! Due to its calibre as well as being semi auto too,be prepared to get an awful load of BS thrown your way about its "suitability for sporting purposes".:rolleyes:

Thats not to say it cant be imported or used here,there are a good few around[usually .308 due to cheap 30.06 being hard to get here.]
Just be prepared for that extra bit of hassle where semi auto rifles are concerned.

tac foley

Tell them you'd like to be able to shoot it in vintage and classic rifle competitions. That's a good reason used by a couple of members of the VCRAI to hold semi-auto military rifles and carbines like the M1 Garand and M1 carbine.

tac

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

30.06? It will put it in the" Restricted " class of firearms! Due to its calibre ..........:rolleyes:

30-06 is NOT restricted. Had one, and while it was bolt action it is an unrestricted caliber.

Grizzly 45

Ezridax wrote: »

30-06 is NOT restricted. Had one, and while it was bolt action it is an unrestricted caliber.

Thought anything above 308 was?? So where does the caliber restriction to restricted kick in??

@ Tac,wouldnt he have to prove membership already of VCARI before importing??

It wasn't me!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Thought anything above 308 was?? So where does the caliber restriction to restricted kick in??

@ Tac,wouldnt he have to prove membership already of VCARI before importing??

It's calibre, not chambering. Any .30 cal. is unrestricted provided it's in a bolt action rifle, even the really big stuff, .30-378 Wby and .300 RUM and the like. But a .32 Spl is restricted. Go figure.

Cass

The .308 is used as the yard stick (wrongly so) as the ceiling of unrestricted calibres. The 300 WinMag, the 30-06, etc are all 30 cal, and (most) are even the same diameter bullet, just different in case size (and hence chambering). However this does not make them restricted.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

@ Tac,wouldnt he have to prove membership already of VCARI before importing??

Sure, but on the other paw, it's pretty cheap to join up, and any classic military rifle of any era is elligible to shoot - even the target versions like the Carl Gustav CG63 - I used one in biathlon in Nordic Games for many years until I got too old and shakey.

That also includes the many .22 trainers used by military and cadet organisations over the last 120 years...

Give John Kavanagh at Fingal Sports in Naul a call - he'll put you right, I'm sure.

tac

Grizzly 45

So in that case if I understand this correctly,any calibre provided it isnt in a semi auto above.308 is unrestricted???Why then was there a big to do then about the vintage Mauser 98s awhile back?They are more or less 30 cals as well.Hmm wouldnt mind a 338 Lapura or 460 Chetac then.:)

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote:

So in that case if I understand this correctly,any calibre provided it isnt in a semi auto above.308 is unrestricted???

No.

The maximum unrestircted "calibre" is 7.62. This is used to describe the .308, but the 30-06, 300 Win Mag, etc all use a 7.62 head just in a different case. IOW if you could neck down a 50Cal case to take a 7.62 head then the rifle is unrestricted by the calibre of head not the case (or chambering of the rifle).

I hope that reads as well as it sounds in my head.:D

Why then was there a big to do then about the vintage Mauser 98s awhile back?They are more or less 30 cals as well.

I could be slightly off here so hope one of our vintage experts can clarify, but most modern firearms when they are made in .308 (7.62) are exactly that. Older rifles would/may not have been as specifically made, and so the rifle is infact 7.68, 7.74, 7,92, etc. I believe there was an issue with some Lee Enfields (or some other make) a while back because of this very thing.

It wasn't me!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So in that case if I understand this correctly,any calibre provided it isnt in a semi auto above.308 is unrestricted???Why then was there a big to do then about the vintage Mauser 98s awhile back?They are more or less 30 cals as well.Hmm wouldnt mind a 338 Lapura or 460 Chetac then.:)

No, Grizz. The K98s were 8x57s. By virtue of having a calibre of 8mm/.323, and therefore greater than 7.62mm/.308, they're restricted. If you have a K98 in .308 Win, it's unrestricted, or in any other chambering which fires a bullet of .30 calibre or less. There is however the secondary issue that they rely on the nomenclature for the calibre, and are happy to accept such as definitive as well. So, despite the fact that actual calibre is something like .311-.312, the .303 British is unrestricted. On the other hand, presumably, the 7.65 Argentine would be restricted, since it's nominally over 7.62, even though it fires the same .30 calibre bullet.

Grizzly 45

Thanks..Clear as mud now!!:)

EWQuinn

The "Band of Brothers" rifle, a true and valuable piece of history. Its worth a few Rosary's to make sure he gets this one in. Capt Hook needs to bring some clips, nothing quite like that "ping".

Also, will need to get the right ammo for the correct gas port pressure. Not meaning to start that whole discussion. However gas port pressure is related to gas volume, which depends largely on powder charge. Generally powder charges 50gr or less will not exceed the M1 Garand spec. Charges over 53 gr are highly suspect and not recommended, those in between are marginal. Excessive gas port pressure can bend the operating rod.

tac foley

Ezridax wrote: »

No.

The maximum unrestircted "calibre" is 7.62. This is used to describe the .308, but the 30-06, 300 Win Mag, etc all use a 7.62 head just in a different case. IOW if you could neck down a 50Cal case to take a 7.62 head then the rifle is unrestricted by the calibre of head not the case (or chambering of the rifle).

I hope that reads as well as it sounds in my head.:D

I could be slightly off here so hope one of our vintage experts can clarify, but most modern firearms when they are made in .308 (7.62) are exactly that. Older rifles would/may not have been as specifically made, and so the rifle is in fact 7.68, 7.74, 7,92, etc. I believe there was an issue with some Lee Enfields (or some other make) a while back because of this very thing.

Ezridax is right.

In common with many of the older calibres, the .303 British Lee-Enfield and ALL its descendants and variants is not actually a .303 anything, but at least .311". Old-fashioned nomclatures/designations for firearms was based on the NBD - nominal bore diameter. The .303", having originally been designed to shoot a lead bullet with a compressed black powder load, had a land to land measurement of .303", but a groove diameter that could vary between .311" and even, in the case of older guns, asd much as .316.

However, as the world calls the .303 and .303 and accepts that designation as the calibre, the confusion seems to have died the death.

The German Mauser 8x57 cartridge - usually referred to as the 8mm Mauser, as Ezridax notes, is actually designated 7.92x57mm. The '8mm' is used as a mark of laziness/convenience but it is still not the actual calibre of the arm, which, depending on the age of the piece, can be either .318" [original models] or .323" [post 1913 or so]......

Ezridax also notes that the 'Group of .30 cals' includes the .308Win/7.62x51 and the ubiquitous 30-06. The problem lies in the conversion from one standard to another, as the US steadfastly refuses to join the rest of the world in the metric madness. Many of us who shoot the 7.5x55 Swiss, using the fine GP11 surplus cartridge, do so in ignorance of the fact that the GP11 bullet is actually 'only' .307" diameter. However, since the designation of the round is 7.5 and there is no .307 bullet generally available for those who can reload it, it remains a .308" bullet. A thousandth of an inch is hardly going to matter when shooting a gun that might be over 110 years old...

Hope that helps

tac
vcrai.com

tac foley

EWQuinn wrote: »

The "Band of Brothers" rifle, a true and valuable piece of history. Its worth a few Rosary's to make sure he gets this one in. Capt Hook needs to bring some clips, nothing quite like that "ping".

Also, will need to get the right ammo for the correct gas port pressure. Not meaning to start that whole discussion. However gas port pressure is related to gas volume, which depends largely on powder charge. Generally powder charges 50gr or less will not exceed the M1 Garand spec. Charges over 53 gr are highly suspect and not recommended, those in between are marginal. Excessive gas port pressure can bend the operating rod.

Sir, you make a good point, except that right now it's a moot one in the Republic, as without the ability to reload, those few who have a Garand have to make do with what is available them. Thankfully, most of the ammunition makers of .30-06 tend to note on the box whether or not it is suitable for the M1 rifle [in good condition].

I lost mine to a 'grateful' government back in 1988, but thankfully have the use of a nice 1954 Rock Island rebuild over at my cousin's in Oregon.

Best

tac

EWQuinn

Sorry about your loss Tac, that is not good. I understand about reloading. Fed American Eagle is ok and says it on the box. Remington 150 gr Core Lokt is probably ok. Usually does not require heavier charge to launch the 150-165s, unless they are using a slow burning powder, which is not what you want. If worse comes to worse, you can always pull a bullet and weigh the charge. Not all ammo is suitable which I learned through experience.

tac foley

EWQuinn wrote: »

Sorry about your loss Tac, that is not good. I understand about reloading. Fed American Eagle is ok and says it on the box. Remington 150 gr Core Lokt is probably ok. Usually does not require heavier charge to launch the 150-165s, unless they are using a slow burning powder, which is not what you want. If worse comes to worse, you can always pull a bullet and weigh the charge. Not all ammo is suitable which I learned through experience.

Sadly, Sir, the way the law is in RoI right now, if you dismantle a cartridge so that you have the components there in front of you then you are committing an offence by being in unlicenced possession of said components.

The FAE stuff, which is what we shoot over in OR, is why I mentioned the note on the packaging.

Best

tac

EWQuinn

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/412046/schuster-dcm-adjustable-gas-plug-with-wrench-wwii-style-m1-garand-steel-parkerized?productnumber=412046

Ooops, don't want to encourage any law breaking. Then this little deal is the ticket for Capt Hook, if he can get the rifle in, he can get this in on it. Then you don't need to worry what ammo you shoot, just make an appropriate adjustment. Personally I would stay away from anything above 180gr bullets.

Grizzly 45

tac foley wrote: »

Sadly, Sir, the way the law is in RoI right now, if you dismantle a cartridge so that you have the components there in front of you then you are committing an offence by being in unlicenced possession of said components.

The FAE stuff, which is what we shoot over in OR, is why I mentioned the note on the packaging.

Best

tac

This is actually a very grey area,as there have been ASFIK two cases of this before DC or circut courts on two deer hunters in the 1990/92[?] in Donegal. Both were thrown out ,as it was ruled that having the components and changing the bullet heads was not manufacturing per se.As you would understand it with a used casing,de and re priming etc.As there was no evidence of having any extra powder, primers etc it cannot be classified as reloading or manufacturing ammo which what the charge was.The judge stated that if you are entitled to hold the ammo under liscense,you are entitled to have it in its made or bit parts,as the liscense says ammo,not full complete rounds only.

I'm trying to find this court case or newspaper clliipings of this.It's one of these things you read and it sticks in your mind,but you forget the namesand dates and what paper.:(

Unfortunately it is was DC decision and hasnt got alot of legal statue weight ,apart from being mentioned as a precedent in any future case.
Hopefully with the new explosives act promised this year we will see this whole reloading situation clarified somwhat as to what exactly reloading is.

Until then I'd just err on the side of caution and leave it be.:cool:

Cass

Lads,

A word of caution before this thread goes off in the complete wrong direction.

As it stands the alteration of ammunition is prohibited/illegal. Any discussion of such is also prohibited as per Boards rules. Such behaviour is not, and will not be condoned.

On that note the discussion of such ends now. Any further posts on the matter will be removed immediately.

This thread is about a person bringing a firearm from the states and while most threads inevitably go off topic this is a topic that will not be permitted.