Traveller beliefs

shangri la

I have heard constantly about travellers being discriminated against because of their customs and beliefs.

I would genuinely like to know, in modern Ireland, what exactly are these customs and beliefs?

I'm willing to keep an open mind to understand your viewpoint and would ask anyone that wants to have an aimless go at travellers to use one of the other threads.

Cee-Jay-Cee

They all believe that they are entitled to special treatment, welfare, handouts and to basically do what they bloody well feel like safe in the knowledge that they merely have to scream discrimination any time theyre tackled about it.

Mint Sauce

This should be fun.

<gets popcorn>

PlainP

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Publications/services/SocialInclusion/InterculturalGuide/Traveller/Traveller.pdf

shangri la

Seriously there must be a hundred treads to express that view... Give someone the chance to have their say from the travellers side.

Seachmall

Customs are being on the road, y'know, a traveller.

Beliefs are rigid Catholic beliefs (my arse).

chin_grin

"Intimidation" and the "curse of modern civilised society" are two.

The King of Moo

It's more about some traveller customs, particularly with regard to gender, with things like "grabbing," girls getting married very young and incredibly old-fashioned views about gender roles (the woman does all the cleaning, cooking etc).

Kids are often taken out of school early too.

I also don't like those horse races on roads: it must be murder on the poor horse's hooves.

It doesn't mean every traveller is a bad egg: there's good and bad.
It's just that many of them have been brought up with incredibly old-fashioned attitudes.

Cantona's Collars

Customs: Collecting scrap.Selling stuff.

Beliefs: They believe they can take anything not nailed down to use for scrap & anything decent is to be sold on.

shangri la

Grabbing?

demanufactured

Search YouTube...there's your answer.

NIMAN

They believe that they can steal whatever they want, from anybody, be it a Church, poor people, old people, charities etc.

They believe that although they keep the insides of their 'homes' immaculate, they can leave the surrounding areas like rubbish tips, and the tax payer has to foot the bill to clean up after them.

They believe that if you can fight then you are strong.

They believe that they shouldn't have to live within the laws that the rest of us have to.

Naomi00

Stupid things like gender roles, narrow mindedness and think somehow you solve problems/arguements with other people by getting two other people to fight each other ()

Basically they are stuck about 300 years behind the rest of the country.

Min

They have a belief that I need to buy gates for my farm all the time or need sheds painted or something else I don't need.

The King of Moo

shangri la wrote: »

Grabbing?

It's a frighteningly literal term.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAbiFuhsLTY

NIMAN

They believe that us ordinary folk will hand over €700 to have my drive power washed! (I kid you not, thats what one quoted me one day, and its a fairly small drive).

shangri la

demanufactured wrote: »

Search YouTube...there's your answer.

i have no problem whatsoever with organised bare knuckle boxing. They do it out of view of the public. It stops violent feuds and clears the air. It is a sport no different from the gloves/ring variety.

paddyandy

The Media loves the Travellers because only Bad Behaviour is News in order to Sell their advertising .Good News on the Telly IS'NT good for selling products only Bad NEWS is and the Travellers provide plenty of that .

HemlockOption

The King of Moo wrote: »

It's more about some traveller customs, particularly with regard to gender, with things like "grabbing," girls getting married very young and incredibly old-fashioned views about gender roles (the woman does all the cleaning, cooking etc).

Kids are often taken out of school early too.

I also don't like those horse races on roads: it must be murder on the poor horse's hooves.

It doesn't mean every traveller is a bad egg: there's good and bad.
It's just that many of them have been brought up with incredibly old-fashioned attitudes.

One of the 'cultural' practices I hate most about the Travelling community is their treatment of animals. An opening scene of one of the programmes in the Channel4 series 'My big fat gypsy wedding', shows a terrified horse strapped into a cart being charged into an oncoming car. Another scene showed a Traveller boy of about 12 picking up his small dog and flinging him into a lake.

Amazingly Channel 4 made no comment on this type of behaviour. Although, maybe they thought it was shocking enough to speak for itself.

hightower1

The King of Moo wrote: »

It's more about some traveller customs, particularly with regard to gender, with things like "grabbing," girls getting married very young and incredibly old-fashioned views about gender roles (the woman does all the cleaning, cooking etc).

Kids are often taken out of school early too.

I also don't like those horse races on roads: it must be murder on the poor horse's hooves.

It doesn't mean every traveller is a bad egg: there's good and bad.
It's just that many of them have been brought up with incredibly old-fashioned attitudes.

Im sorry....but those behaviours and life choices DOES make a person a bad egg. If a settled person decided not to give their children the chance at a full education and made their women bound to 1960s roles in the home then I'd call them a major ar$ehole, Im not going to single anyone out on ethnic grounds so ANYONE with that kind of attitude IS an ar$sehole - settled or traveller- imo.

shangri la

So only a few minutes after the tread was started and with the replies so far no one with inside knowledge of traveller lifestyle would bother posting now.

well done.

chin_grin

shangri la wrote: »

So only a few minutes after the tread was started and with the replies so far no one with inside knowledge of traveller lifestyle would bother posting now.

well done.

Your first mistake was posting in After Hours. And I've never known travellers to be 'in the know' with technology...or even typing...or reading...writing...basic hygiene...manners...

Naomi00

shangri la wrote: »

i have no problem whatsoever with organised bare knuckle boxing. They do it out of view of the public. It stops violent feuds and clears the air. It is a sport no different from the gloves/ring variety.

Wtf..it's illegal for a reason. It's not regulated or organised properly and people get injured really badly because they're too thick to sort out a small problem like adults and think doing that will fix things. I don't really care if they get injured but the very same people block up A&E afterwards so it affects people who are their for genuine reasons. And it is completely different from proper boxing, that's a disciple, bare knuckle boxing is not.

paddyandy

shangri la wrote: »

i have no problem whatsoever with organised bare knuckle boxing. They do it out of view of the public. It stops violent feuds and clears the air. It is a sport no different from the gloves/ring variety.

Boxing Gloves were invented because Bare knuckle boxing does a much more
serious category of injury ......very different type of boxing .

Ghost Buster

shangri la wrote: »

i have no problem whatsoever with organised bare knuckle boxing. They do it out of view of the public. It causes violent feuds . It is a sport no different from the gloves/ring variety.

FYP

The King of Moo

hightower1 wrote: »

Im sorry....but those behaviours and life choices DOES make a person a bad egg. If a settled person decided not to give their children the chance at a full education and made their women bound to 1960s roles in the home then I'd call them a major ar$ehole, Im not going to single anyone out on ethnic grounds so ANYONE with that kind of attitude IS an ar$sehole - settled or traveller- imo.

I'm not saying individuals aren't to blame for doing things like that, but it is hard to buck that trend when everyone else in your close-knit community does the same thing, and have done so for generations.
It doesn't make it right, but I also think it's unfair to blame individual travellers entirely for making choices like that.
We're all heavily influenced by our peers.

shangri la

Naomi00 wrote: »

Wtf..it's illegal for a reason. It's not regulated or organised properly and people get injured really badly because they're too thick to sort out a small problem like adults and think doing that will fix things. I don't really care if they get injured but the very same people block up A&E afterwards so it affects people who are their for genuine reasons. And it is completely different from proper boxing, that's a disciple, bare knuckle boxing is not.

they have 2 refs who will stop it when one man gives up or cant continue.

MMA which is gaining a huge worldwide audience is FAR more dangerous.

kylith

paddyandy wrote: »

Boxing Gloves were invented because Bare knuckle boxing does a much more
serious category of injury ......very different type of boxing .

Actually, no. Gloved boxing is more dangerous than bare knuckle. Bare knuckle boxers usually work the body, where there's plenty of padding, because heads are awful bony things that hurt when you punch them. Wearing gloves means that you can batter someone in the head as much as you want without hurting yourself, so serious head injuries are more prevalent in gloved boxing.

dark crystal

shangri la wrote: »

So only a few minutes after the tread was started and with the replies so far no one with inside knowledge of traveller lifestyle would bother posting now.

well done.

If you're only looking for people with insider knowledge of the travelling community to comment, it's gonna be a pretty short thread....

Professey Chin

shangri la wrote: »

they have 2 refs who will stop it when one man gives up or cant continue.

MMA which is gaining a huge worldwide audience is FAR more dangerous.

And with that sentence youve proven you dont have a clue about either

The King of Moo

The King of Moo wrote: »

It's a frighteningly literal term.

Good lord that's disgusting

Naomi00

shangri la wrote: »

they have 2 refs who will stop it when one man gives up or cant continue.

MMA which is gaining a huge worldwide audience is FAR more dangerous.

Yeah two 'refs' :rolleyes:

It's a load of rubbish.

shangri la

paddyandy wrote: »

Boxing Gloves were invented because Bare knuckle boxing does a much more
serious category of injury ......very different type of boxing .

gloves and wraps are more to protect the wearers hands than protect the opponent.

professional boxing gloves are quite hard, you will get an equal rattle whether the other lad is wearing them or not.

Ghost Buster

shangri la wrote: »

they have 2 refs who will stop it when one man gives up or cant continue.

MMA which is gaining a huge worldwide audience is FAR more dangerous.

Two refs didnt seem to be enough when the County Clinic in Longford became embroiled in the feud which followed directly on from a bare knuckle fight. They released tear gas that time and shut down the clinic for a day. Two certainly wasnt enough when the regional hospital in Mullingar had to be shut down with my wife and kids locked inside following a riot stemming from the same feud.

chin_grin

shangri la wrote: »

they have 2 refs who will stop it when one man gives up or cant continue.

MMA which is gaining a huge worldwide audience is FAR more dangerous.

For someone starting a thread wanting to know about traveller customs, you seem to know an awful lot about certain aspects of them yourself. (Especially the boxing....hmm).

And that mma comment? Both combatants are trained specifically in their martial art and have trained for their opponent. Also there are medics on standby. I've never seen footage of a bareknuckle where there's an ambulance on the side line...maybe afterwards but not during.

The_Minister

The King of Moo wrote: »

It's a frighteningly literal term.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAbiFuhsLTY

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

Professey Chin

The_Minister wrote: »

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

.........O_O
.....................Just.....................O_O

shangri la

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

And with that sentence youve proven you dont have a clue about either

any sport that allows someone to be "spear tackled" is more dangerous than boxing.

paky

not all members of the travelling community are bare knuckle fighters and thieves, just like not all irish people are alcoholic degenerates.

chin_grin

shangri la wrote: »

any sport that allows someone to be "spear tackled" is more dangerous than boxing.

Care to post a video to some proof? I've seen mma fights where a fighter will clinch, lift and throw the opponent to the ground but never upside down.

A spear tackle is a dangerous tackle in rugby union, rugby league and Australian rules football whereby a player lifts another player into the air and dumps or drops them upside down

Professey Chin

shangri la wrote: »

any sport that allows someone to be "spear tackled" is more dangerous than boxing.

Spear tackling never happens. Its illegal

demanufactured

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL6aDrzs3Fs

charlemont

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Two refs didnt seem to be enough when the County Clinic in Longford became embroiled in the feud which followed directly on from a bare knuckle fight. They released tear gas that time and shut down the clinic for a day. Two certainly wasnt enough when the regional hospital in Mullingar had to be shut down with my wife and kids locked inside following a riot stemming from the same feud.

Scandalous carry-on. Travellers are pretty much trapped in what they think/were taught is their culture..Which to the rest of us really is just criminality, A form of cultural criminality..

Most of us have families that would be very upset and angry if we done wrong (which I have myself),But with Travellers, Wrong is their way of life. Travellers are no different from us, They just use their culture to hide behind..

weemcd

Traveller beliefs:

recycling (stealing)
strong family values (marrying your cousin)
big weddings (women dress like hoors, the kids do whatever they want and the men drink their bodyweight and punch the head off each other)

frag420

The King of Moo wrote: »

It doesn't mean every traveller is a bad egg: there's good and bad.

Well lets do the bad egg test.

Throw one into a lake. If he floats then he is a bad egg and if he sinks he is a good egg.

If he floats then drown him as he is a bad egg.

Its a win win for everyone.






I dont condone polluting our lakes with travellers...............

shangri la

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Two refs didnt seem to be enough when the County Clinic in Longford became embroiled in the feud which followed directly on from a bare knuckle fight. They released tear gas that time and shut down the clinic for a day. Two certainly wasnt enough when the regional hospital in Mullingar had to be shut down with my wife and kids locked inside following a riot stemming from the same feud.

i was in longford then and seen some of the aftermath.

fact is issues are solved by a families boxers that otherwise would be solved by others a more violent way.

sometimes a mass fight ensues and anyone caught with a dangerous weapon should serve proper jail time, not community service like the courts are giving.

the state does not want/cant afford to pay to jail them for long enough that use of weapons is not worth the jail term.

MungBean

Is there any actual references to "grabbing" other than that clip from "My big fat gypsy wedding" ?

I remember having a dig around at the time when I seen it, shocked as anyone but found it very difficult to find any other mention of it other than references to the show and travellers themselves denying it was a tradition at all.

shangri la

chin_grin wrote: »

For someone starting a thread wanting to know about traveller customs, you seem to know an awful lot about certain aspects of them yourself. (Especially the boxing....hmm).

And that mma comment? Both combatants are trained specifically in their martial art and have trained for their opponent. Also there are medics on standby. I've never seen footage of a bareknuckle where there's an ambulance on the side line...maybe afterwards but not during.

im from longford. Hard not to get to know the story in that town.

all this specific training and safety equiptment may be available at the very highest standard of the sport but what about the other 99% of the time?

MungBean

MungBean wrote: »

Is there any actual references to "grabbing" other than that clip from "My big fat gypsy wedding" ?

I remember having a dig around at the time when I seen it, shocked as anyone but found it very difficult to find any other mention of it other than references to the show and travellers themselves denying it was a tradition at all.

There are some other articles referencing other episodes where it happened and other travellers explaining it

hightower1

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'm not saying individuals aren't to blame for doing things like that, but it is hard to buck that trend when everyone else in your close-knit community does the same thing, and have done so for generations.
It doesn't make it right, but I also think it's unfair to blame individual travellers entirely for making choices like that.
We're all heavily influenced by our peers.

So the old "everyone else was doing it" defense is a legit reason for sexisim and general mental / social abuse of women and children.

China has horrific and abusive human rights violations, they all are doing it yet they still get condemed by the international community for it. Seems like the "eveyone else was doing it" defense doesnt actualy work even on the largest scale.


In regards to the original post.... there are no traveller "beliefs" just superstision and traditional habbits. They use the word "belief" to evoke images of religious of ethnic persecution should anyone with common sense decide that they are plain and simply not an ethic group no matter how much they would like to protray themselves as one.

MungBean

bluewolf wrote: »

There are some other articles referencing other episodes where it happened and other travellers explaining it

I cant find anything referencing it as a tradition thats not just quoting the show. A tradition like that would surely have been known. I know the clip is rather disturbing but its an edited clip from a reality TV show. There has to be better info on this if it is an actual tradition.