Traveller beliefs

Chuck Stone

the purple tin wrote: »

Are settled travellers classed in the same group as actual travelling travellers?

Yes.

Just like how living in a caravan wouldn't make you a Traveller living in a house doesn't make a Traveller a settled person.

Travellers still yearn for the itinerant lifestyle when they're living in 'fixed abodes'.

The King of Moo

MungBean wrote: »

I dont think they made it up either but from the show it wasnt a traveller who talked about "grabbing" and I doubt the show bothered a whole to to verify what yer one said. It made good TV, thats what the makers want. They want it in the Daily Mail causing controversy to boost ratings, its Daily Mail type crap anyway they hand pick the most extravagant families to shoot the weddings and christenings to make good TV.

I agree, the programme is pretty terrible in the way it deliberately chooses the families who'll look the most ridiculous.

Hopefully, as someone else said, people won't start grabbing just because they saw it on the programme. Even if only a few men are doing it at the moment, it's too many.

Nodin

Anybody advocated genocide yet? Usually have a few by now.

ScumLord

MungBean wrote: »

I'm not talking about turtling I'm talking about blows landed after the fighter is incapable of fighting, whether knocked out cold or groggy.

The Great Chinholio is correct, according to the rules the ref is supposed to stop the fight if either fighter is "not intelligently defending". That's the official ruling. Refs have stood back in the past but lately they'll jump in if the fighter is showing the slightest signs of being not fully with it. The refs around today in MMA are very good and nothing like the old days. Fighters will rarely get the chance to do get more than one punch against an unconscious opponent these days.

Chuck Stone

A boxer can be knocked to the ground twice in each round and be allowed 10+ seconds to get back up. So, technically, in the course of a 12 round fight a boxer could be knocked down 24 times and be allowed to continue.

In MMA events the fighter is done when he is unable to intelligently defend himself. Comparatively boxing is a far more barbaric combat sport than MMA.

MungBean

Chuck Stone wrote: »

A boxer can be knocked to the ground twice in each round and be allowed 10+ seconds to get back up. So, technically, in the course of a 12 round fight a boxer could be knocked down 24 times and be allowed to continue.

In MMA events the fighter is done when he is unable to intelligently defend himself. Comparatively boxing is a far more barbaric combat sport than MMA.

Theoretically a fighter can die in MMA if a ref trips before he can separate a fighter beating someone while unconscious. Sure it can happen but its not likely, same as someone being knocked down 24 times in a fight.

Fact is a boxing ref can and will stop a fight if a fighter is out of it same as MMA they dont have to be knocked out or knocked down. If they are standing and not defending themselves the ref will step in. The difference is that in MMA a fighter can have further injury inflicted on him while in that condition. If a boxer cant stand its game over. If an MMA fighter cant stand the ref waits until a few blows have been landed before judging it to be not intelligently defending and jumping in.

Edit. I'm a fan of MMA by the way I'm not arguing against it, just that I think its a tad more dangerous than boxing.

ScumLord

MungBean wrote: »

If a boxer cant stand its game over. If an MMA fighter cant stand the ref waits until a few blows have been landed before judging it to be not intelligently defending and jumping in.

It's not as easy or straight forward as that. An MMA fighter doesn't have to stand, just because his on the ground doesn't mean he's any less dangerous to the person standing over him. If he's flat out on the ground and not stopping the oncoming opponent it will be obvious before the other fighter has a chance to hit him and the ref will stop the fight.

The King of Moo

Travellers' beliefs ----> safety in MMA fights:

One of the hardest-to-predict thread derailments ever.

Not that I'm complaining mind.

Nodin

Chuck Stone wrote: »

A boxer can be knocked to the ground twice in each round and be allowed 10+ seconds to get back up. So, technically, in the course of a 12 round fight a boxer could be knocked down 24 times and be allowed to continue.

In MMA events the fighter is done when he is unable to intelligently defend himself. Comparatively boxing is a far more barbaric combat sport than MMA.

You're forgetting the 3 knockown rule, however.

arybvtcw0eolkf

kylith wrote: »

Actually, no. Gloved boxing is more dangerous than bare knuckle. Bare knuckle boxers usually work the body, where there's plenty of padding, because heads are awful bony things that hurt when you punch them. Wearing gloves means that you can batter someone in the head as much as you want without hurting yourself, so serious head injuries are more prevalent in gloved boxing.

You have the right idea, but you got it arseways tbh.

Anyway traveler fights IMO are boring as hell.. Most can't fight, and the rules of their fights make for awfully basic school yard boxing.

stacey25

The King of Moo wrote: »

It's a frighteningly literal term.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAbiFuhsLTY

love this show

cloud493

How can that grabbing thing be legal, its disgusting

The only time I think I've ever seen a gypsy is when a few years back on church street in Liverpool waiting for the bus they had some grass thing in a bit of tin foil, tried to tell me once I touched it I had to pay £50 for it.

bensweeney

cloud493 wrote: »

How can that grabbing thing be legal, its disgusting

The only time I think I've ever seen a gypsy is when a few years back on church street in Liverpool waiting for the bus they had some grass thing in a bit of tin foil, tried to tell me once I touched it I had to pay £50 for it.

Your lucky, I grew up in Tuam. Surrounded by them, Do gooders will never understand the reality until they live in close proximity to them.

Chuck Stone

Nodin wrote: »

You're forgetting the 3 knockown rule, however.

That's in one round though isn't it? You could still be knocked down twice every round.

That's why I said 24 times. 2 x 12 = 24.

?

scamalert

If a field is free it means its a free parking spot to settle down and trash the area,before moving on :pac:

Nodin

Chuck Stone wrote: »

That's in one round though isn't it? You could still be knocked down twice every round.

That's why I said 24 times. 2 x 12 = 24.

?

True.

Bloody unlikely you'd last or that it would be let go on that far though.

St.Spodo

Travelers are a fascinating group. I think their biggest problem is that they are so concerned with perpetuating their anachronistic cultural practices and beliefs. This puts them further out of step with every passing generation. Sadly and while discrimination undoubtedly exists, assimilation and integration into society will always be painfully difficult when you refuse to modernize, and refuse accept social standards in the name of ''culture'' and ''tradition''.

Chuck Stone

St.Spodo wrote: »

assimilation and integration into society will always be painfully difficult when you refuse to modernize, and refuse accept social standards in the name of ''culture'' and ''tradition''.

Why does everyone have to assimilate and integrate?

Not recognizing the differences between Travellers and the settled community has a lot to do with how things are now.

In the 50's/60's the state tried to assimilate Travellers by putting them in public housing. Travellers just brought their ways and their extended families with them and they two communities began to grind off each other.

If they had built good halting sites with educational facilities and other services on them instead of trying to force Travellers to assimilate who knows where we'd be now.

Sunnyisland

cloud493 wrote: »

You know I've been in Ireland for 2 years now, and I've never seen a traveller.

Maybe your living to much in a cloud, number 493

St.Spodo

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Why does everyone have to assimilate and integrate?

Not recognizing the differences between Travellers and the settled community has a lot to do with how things are now.

In the 50's/60's the state tried to assimilate Travellers by putting them in public housing. Travellers just brought their ways and their extended families with them and they two communities began to grind off each other.

If they had built good halting sites with educational facilities and other services on them instead of trying to force Travellers to assimilate who knows where we'd be now.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear that I was referring to a kind of cultural assimilation, as opposed to a physical one. That is to say, to accept that things like ''grabbing'' are wrong, bare-knuckle boxing is illegal, and that women should be treated equally and given equal opportunities. Once they accept advanced, reasoned societal norms, they will be better accepted into society. That's the kind of integration I'm talking about. I've no problems with travelers maintaining their own sense of identity.

laoch na mona

O we are a discriminatory lot aren't we
travelers aren't that bad just a bit backwards only some are criminals ( i'll admit its a larger percentage then that of the settled community)

Chuck Stone

St.Spodo wrote: »

Perhaps I didn't make it clear that I was referring to a kind of cultural assimilation, as opposed to a physical one. That is to say, to accept that things like ''grabbing'' are wrong,

I'm fairly sure that if grabbing was not consensual the lads doing it would find themselves subject to an almighty beating from the family of the girl being grabbed. Regardless, I don't think it's the norm.

bare-knuckle boxing is illegal,

It is? Even if it is illegal the two participants are consenting adults so I don't see what business it is of the law and I doubt very much that it will be stopped anyway illegal or not. It's not something I'd be into myself but I don't see why I have the right to prevent others from doing it.

and that women should be treated equally and given equal opportunities.

That's an ideal most societies and communities should aspire to.

Once they accept advanced, reasoned societal norms, they will be better accepted into society.

Again I don't think accepting 'advanced, reasoned societal norms' (whatever they may be) is exclusively a Traveller issue. And as for being accepted into society - who says they seek it?

These are very nebulous ideals and terms in fairness.

Clareboy

When Travellers stopped travelling, that's when all the problems started.

Dudess

laoch na mona wrote: »

O we are a discriminatory lot aren't we
travelers aren't that bad just a bit backwards only some are criminals ( i'll admit its a larger percentage then that of the settled community)

But... why do people keep throwing this strawman out? Travellers who cause shyte for those who live near them - deserve condemnation; travellers who don't - don't. It's not discriminatory to have a problem with the ones who cause trouble.

mikemac1

Send them back to where they belong :mad:

Westmeath

lazygal

mikemac1 wrote: »

Send them back to where they belong :mad:

Westmeath

I think its actually Longford.

markesmith

Let's bring KeithAFC on to this thread, really liven things up :rolleyes:

HemlockOption

St.Spodo wrote: »

Perhaps I didn't make it clear that I was referring to a kind of cultural assimilation, as opposed to a physical one. That is to say, to accept that things like ''grabbing'' are wrong, bare-knuckle boxing is illegal, and that women should be treated equally and given equal opportunities. Once they accept advanced, reasoned societal norms, they will be better accepted into society. That's the kind of integration I'm talking about. I've no problems with travelers maintaining their own sense of identity.

Unfortunately, part of that identity is not working and subsequently not paying taxes. How can you hold down a job whilst maintaining the stance that you have the right to travel around the country whenever you feel the urge? So, the actual taxpayers pay for the Traveller chosen lifestyle.

St.Spodo

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that if grabbing was not consensual the lads doing it would find themselves subject to an almighty beating from the family of the girl being grabbed. Regardless, I don't think it's the norm.



It is? Even if it is illegal the two participants are consenting adults so I don't see what business it is of the law and I doubt very much that it will be stopped anyway illegal or not. It's not something I'd be into myself but I don't see why I have the right to prevent others from doing it.



That's an ideal most societies and communities should aspire to.



Again I don't think accepting 'advanced, reasoned societal norms' (whatever they may be) is exclusively a Traveller issue. And as for being accepted into society - who says they seek it?

These are very nebulous ideals and terms in fairness.

I tend to think you're missing my point. Practices sexist in nature, archaic gender roles, violence et cetera give fuel to discriminatory views towards travelers. Whether or not they want to integrate into society is irrelevant; a lot of their practices alienate them from the rest of the population. Scorn, contempt, even discrimination to some extent is brought upon themselves by refusing to conform to decent and reasoned views about how we should treat each other.

The video illustrates that girls go out expecting to be grabbed. The societal norm I was referring to is one which doesn't tolerate this kind of behaviour. At a non-traveler event, if girls were being regularly dragged outside to be sexually assaulted, plenty of people would be rushing to their aid. Also, it is most assuredly a common practice. FWIW, I've seen it happen twice.

maiden

I know a lot of travellers my own age (40) and teen travellers,, and this is what they TOLD me, not my own opinions!

There are different classes within the traveller community

They do not believe in sex before marriage, but most of them do have sex before marriage.

Their biggest earners at the moment are insurance claims and drug dealing

The girls are there to be treated like second class citizens, and the girls are happy with this, all they want is the wedding and the man. A lot will end up in womens refuges but always go back.

They are very religious but do not practice what they hear.

Extremely supercistious!!

IrishAm

Grabbing? Looks like rape to me.

Dudess

markesmith wrote: »

Let's bring KeithAFC on to this thread, really liven things up :rolleyes:

His concern for this persecuted group is... touching.

mariano rivera

Travellers beliefs/ customs include:

Owning Horses
Travelling Lifestyle
Their own language (Cant)
Traditional scrap metal trades
Strong Catholic beliefs
Marrying early
Owning Slaves

laoch na mona

Dudess wrote: »

But... why do people keep throwing this strawman out? Travellers who cause shyte for those who live near them - deserve condemnation; travellers who don't - don't. It's not discriminatory to have a problem with the ones who cause trouble.

i agree but everyone seems to condemn them all just cause they only know of the bad ones
I'm not trying to defend criminals but looking at travellers as one single group is simple wrong they are just like us really

funnilenough

why dont they all just go on a gap year and help people,like that nice prince william and his mot?
thats what they should do,innit.

EGAR

Actually, now that illiteracy is being mentioned. I have plenty of surrender forms for animals *signed* by Travellers with their xxx's, obviously witnessed by Gardai, BUT if they really cannot read or write how do they manage to get a driving licence?

I have always wondered.... :rolleyes:

Chuck Stone

EGAR wrote: »

Actually, now that illiteracy is being mentioned ... how do they manage to get a driving licence?

Because reading signs is not the same as reading words?

Professey Chin

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Because reading signs is not the same as reading words?

You have to be able to read warning signs. Some can be told by shape but what about ones that change or are temporary?

Chuck Stone

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

You have to be able to read warning signs. Some can be told by shape but what about ones that change or are temporary?

Aren't they in English and numerical?

thethingis

Its the 99% that give the 1% a bad name

tuxy

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Aren't they in English and numerical?

How have travellers managed to do the theory test since it's been introduced?

Chuck Stone

tuxy wrote: »

How have travellers managed to do the theory test since it's been introduced?

No idea.

I guess most of them have enough literacy to get through it?

joseph brand

Chuck Stone wrote: »

No idea.

I guess most of them have enough literacy to get through it?

They don't do any theory test. They just drive cars with no licence, tax or insurance.

They leave nappies in pubs and restaurants and they'd take the used underpants from yer hole. Leave them alone you racists! :rolleyes:

mackg

On the subject of literacy amongst travellers; one day one of them came up to me in the village where I'm from and asked me to read the instructions on his head lice shampoo for him. Shame of it!

senorwipesalot

thethingis wrote: »

Its the 99% that give the 1% a bad name

Havnt met an awful lot of knackers in real life have you ?

NEScart

Funny enough I should read this thread.

I was talking to my friend on Wednesday evening and he mentioned how his dad had a bit of a run in with travellers in his job. To make a long story short his dad's job often involves him shifting gear to be thrashed or recycled. On Wednesday he was loading stuff up on the truck. One item was an old boiler (open bed style truck)

Cue two travellers get out of their van trying to get the boiler for free... "here, i'll take that off ya fella, save the trouble" style crap outta them :rolleyes: (for those who dont know boilers are made from copper. which can earn you a few bob when brought to the scrap yard) My mate's dad knows what they are at and politely says "no" - and cue the travellers trying it on harder - "no" still - then they try on a bit of intimidation - but still "no!" followed by "get lost!"

I will give this to my mate's dad tho. I have often heard him say you gotta be firm and tough with travellers. This example is just another case why. Personally having dealt with a few in my time. I think they are all scum. Surely someone will quote me on that to disgaree :rolleyes: no doubt a person who has no first hand experience dealing with them :rolleyes: and NO opening your door to them as they are selling carpets doenst count :rolleyes:

demanufactured

Didn't I bate you, Adin in it.
Junky Joe!!!!

grindle

IrishAm wrote: »

Grabbing? Looks like rape to me.

*puts on traveller-apologist hat*

ACTUALLY IrishAm, it's KIDnapping and sexual ASSAULT, not RAPE!!!
Stop being SO discriminatory with your explosively RACIST remarks!!!

tuxy

joseph brand wrote: »

They don't do any theory test. They just drive cars with no licence, tax or insurance.

This could be correct. I remember watching a program on TV about customs. They had a stop set up to check for green diesel. They stopped a traveller in a van who was using green. The guards were there too and questioned him. He had no ID and told them he had no fixed abode. In the end they got about €200 on the spot fine form him. The guards considered it a success to get anything. The normal fine would have been about €2000.

I can't imagine any regular person getting off so lightly. Imagine not giving a real name and address to a guard and then offering him €200 to let you go.

mikemac1

Thou shalt always attend mass, bless yourself when passing a church and in general demonstrate you are a good Catholic
Your Hiace will be plastered with Padre Pio stickers and you will attend the novena at Knock every year

Thou shalt then leave Mass and go rob the locals.
When the elderly are also in mass and their homes are empty is usually a good opportunity

Thou shall convince yourself you are still a good person
Possibly not your fault, you never learned the commandmants about not stealing and not coveting your neighbours goods