Traveller beliefs

RoyalMarine

few days ago I was waiting in traffic at an cross section onto a bypass, and two traveller kids came down the side of my car on their horse and cart, straight across the road, didn't look, didn't stop didn't give a fcuk. two cars almost ended up in the side ditch and a large truck almost plowed them off the road.

Professey Chin

The horse & traps should be confiscated the second theyre seen. Nothing but a complete hazard on the roads and even more dangerous when they race them. Ive seen the aftermath of the trap flipping during a race down a dual carrageway. Poor horse was in bits (and you could tell they were racing from the amount of steam coming off the other horse)

the_syco

Chuck Stone wrote: »

It is? Even if it is illegal the two participants are consenting adults so I don't see what business it is of the law and I doubt very much that it will be stopped anyway illegal or not. It's not something I'd be into myself but I don't see why I have the right to prevent others from doing it.

It's my business when they fight in hospitals, outside schools, etc.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Again I don't think accepting 'advanced, reasoned societal norms' (whatever they may be)

Such as our laws?

markesmith wrote: »

Let's bring KeithAFC on to this thread, really liven things up :rolleyes:

I'd actually wonder how the UVF and the IRA treat travellers up north that steal?

tuxy wrote: »

How have travellers managed to do the theory test since it's been introduced?

How many times has the same traveller passed the theory test with different names?

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I dont think flocking in to book tickets for the forth coming production of Cat on a hot tin roof'

I could see a handful reading the title the wrong way... :pac:

=-=

I think we should throw them into a large communal house on an island and burn their caravans. Too extreme? Well lets hear your idea to deal with a minority who don't follow the law, steal, and cause mayhem wherever they go!

tuxy

the_syco wrote: »

How many times has the same traveller passed the theory test with different names?

I didn't think of that. Is it easier for a traveller to fake their identity?

Professey Chin

tuxy wrote: »

I didn't think of that. Is it easier for a traveller to fake their identity?

So many of them with "No fixed address" and massive families can only make things easier

tuxy

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

So many of them with "No fixed address" and massive families can only make things easier

True and many of them would have the same name.
I think the Garda PULSE system relies greatly on addresses to identify people.

Robdude

Hahaha - okay - so I had no idea who the travellers were - but I saw this today: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2012/0417/1224314809168.html

What a bunch of tools.

'We can't read *AND* we don't wanna learn *AND* we want you to read for us while you provide us with health care *AND* it's unfair that so many people think we're lazy!!!!'

Man - Irish people are way too f***ing nice. In the US - we'd just kill 99% of them, take everything we wanted, then give them a casino.

cocoshovel

Actually, I just remembered how me and a few of our friends camped in the same field as a travellers halting site for a motorshow in waterford.
We never heard a peep from them, and the next day we actually played soccer with the teens from the camp :eek:

Some little 10 year old traveller said to my friend.
Traveler: "here, do youiz have beer in dem tents?"
Friend: "yes"
Traveler: "Giz one will ya!"
Friend: "nah sorry I cant".
Traveler: "Ill break your legs"
Friend: "haha, whisht up will ya!".

It was actually pretty funny.

Now, so I admit to it. despite me being very negative when it comes to travellers, there is at least one positive experience with them.

MungBean

Robdude wrote: »

Hahaha - okay - so I had no idea who the travellers were - but I saw this today: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2012/0417/1224314809168.html

What a bunch of tools.

'We can't read *AND* we don't wanna learn *AND* we want you to read for us while you provide us with health care *AND* it's unfair that so many people think we're lazy!!!!'

Man - Irish people are way too f***ing nice. In the US - we'd just kill 99% of them, take everything we wanted, then give them a casino.

If this policy is successful – and with more icons and colour coding of signs in hospitals – this could be a huge improvement not just for Travellers but for everyone with reading problems, visual and hearing impairments and the confused state of mind that goes with entering a healthcare setting.

Yeah, shower of lazy ignorant bastards trying to improve things. If only they were more like stereotypical Americans healthy, intelligent and not at all ignorant. Oh well.

Chazz Michael Michaels

Some believe in slavery.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-17755278

Traveller rights groups are trying to claim that this is just the police discriminating against Irish travellers...

You can see their point, alright.

Robdude

MungBean wrote: »

Yeah, shower of lazy ignorant bastards trying to improve things. If only they were more like stereotypical Americans healthy, intelligent and not at all ignorant. Oh well.

So long as other people are the ones doing the work....

MungBean

Robdude wrote: »

So long as other people are the ones doing the work....

Yeah, ya didnt know what a traveller was this time yesterday and now your confident enough to label them all lazy and call them tools based on an article about a group trying to highlight issues and improve the standard of living for people.

Your not exactly helping me here by living up to the stereotypical American who cant think for himself here.

voz es

................and breathe

Morricone

I worked in a bar where travellers were allowed frequent along with locals.

Some of the shít I saw was absolutely incredible. Sometimes there would be just bedlam inside in the pub. 2 brothers had a row one evening and proceeded to kick the **** out of each other in the middle of the place with women going bat shít crazy and tables, chairs everything just thrown upside down.

Fortunetly there was one lad who didn't drink and was the leader of the family from what I could see. He was also intelligent and very reasonable. An actual sound skin. If things were getting out of hand a quick word with him and he would make sure that the belligerants simmered down.

Also they were very good to give tips and drop money on the floor. I was a richer man for working the nights that the travellers came in.

LH Pathe

In travlur 'lore it is said if you stay in one place too long, you will turn to stone.. and the wheels of your wagon become eternally clamped

Underground

I'm not racist at all,but i don't like the fact that discrimination against travellers can be seen as racism these days.

I've met sound black people,I've met sound asian people,I've met sound Muslim people..I have many friends from Eastern Europe.Basically I've met sound people from all walks of life.

I've never met a sound traveller though.

strobe

Everything that's wrong with trying to have this discussion can be summed up by the first three words posted in response to the OP and the number of thanks it received.

CJC999 wrote: »

They all believe

MungBean

Underground wrote: »

I'm not racist at all,but i don't like the fact that discrimination against travellers can be seen as racism these days.

I've met sound black people,I've met sound asian people,I've met sound Muslim people..I have many friends from Eastern Europe.Basically I've met sound people from all walks of life.

I've never met a sound traveller though.

I hate the fact that people seem to think that its ok to discriminate as long as they are not being racist. "I'm not racist, I just dont like black people" etc.

Ghost Buster

MungBean wrote: »

Yeah, ya didnt know what a traveller was this time yesterday and now your confident enough to label them all lazy and call them tools based on an article about a group trying to highlight issues and improve the standard of living for people.

Your not exactly helping me here by living up to the stereotypical American who cant think for himself here.

MungBean wrote: »

I hate the fact that people seem to think that its ok to discriminate as long as they are not being racist. "I'm not racist, I just dont like black people" etc.

See the bit in bold... thats racism that is;)

MungBean

Ghost Buster wrote: »

See the bit in bold... thats racism that is;)

No thats you thinking your arse is your elbow.

Ghost Buster

MungBean wrote: »

No thats you thinking your arse is your elbow.

Ok. Lets change it to:
Sterotypical traveller stealing and scabbing from social welfare and fighting outside hospitals with slash hooks.

Hows my arse/elbow differential looking now?

MungBean

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Ok. Lets change it to:
Sterotypical traveller stealing and scabbing from social welfare and fighting outside hospitals with slash hooks.

Hows my arse/elbow differential looking now?

Bout the same. I know the stereotypic view of the traveller, its very well documented in this thread. I'm not sure what exactly you think you've proven here.

Ghost Buster

MungBean wrote: »

Bout the same. I know the stereotypic view of the traveller, its very well documented in this thread. I'm not sure what exactly you think you've proven here.

Oh i just find it a little ironic. A thread about a group which isnt a race whom you are defending against racism where you are then blatantly racist about Americans who are a race.

lividduck

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Oh i just find it a little ironic. A thread about a group which isnt a race whom you are defending against racism where you are then blatantly racist about Americans who are a race.

americans are not a race, they may be a nationality but certainly not a race.

Ghost Buster

lividduck wrote: »

americans are not a race, they may be a nationality but certainly not a race.

They are as much as race as travellers;).
If they carry a gene which makes them largely incapable of thinking for them selves then they must be a race?

MungBean

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Oh i just find it a little ironic. A thread about a group which isnt a race whom you are defending against racism where you are then blatantly racist about Americans who are a race.

How is it racist to acknowledge a stereotype while arguing that you shouldn't base your view of someone on it ?

Racist (if they were a race) would be claiming it was true and justified and all Americans were dumb, fat and lazy which I didnt do. I just pointed out there were American stereotypes too.

Da Shins Kelly

Just on the issue of the 'grabbing' thing. A lad in my course in college is a traveller and he said that that is not a tradition in the travelling community, and was horrified himself by seeing it on television. He has nothing but contempt for that show as it continues to ridicule travellers to the rest of society while glamorising less lustrous and less common aspects of the community to other travellers, therefore making those kinds of practices become more commonplace. Those Big Fat Gypsy whatever shows should not be taken seriously as a good and balanced insight into the travelling community.

For the record, I've never had any problems with travellers in my life. Went to school with many of them, there's a halting site down the road from where I live, and there's never been a problem. I've never found them particularly anti-social or anything. Main practice I've noticed among the community is the idea of the girls dolling themselves up in order to find a husband. When it was hot here a couple of weeks back, all the girls were out in tiny bikinis or tiny little mini-skirts and belly tops and high heels, with their hair curled and loads of fake tan and make-up and such. It seems odd to me, but it's what they do. I don't really feel entitled to pass comment on their culture. I kinda feel like they cling onto their culture so much because they feel as though it's under siege.

shangri la

Would you shag a knacker from your local area?

lividduck

shangri la wrote: »

Would you shag a knacker from your local area?

Define Knac**r?

Slidey

My home town is a place called Ballymote. The traditional burial ground of either the Wards of the McDonaghs, I forget which.

As a previous poster has said, all the pubs must close, the local CO-OP also has to go on alert as one year they went in and bought every pick axe handle and the likes from the place to arm themselves to the teeth.

There was a guy shot and killed at a funeral there also.

The graveyard is destroyed with monstrosities of graves towering over normal peoples graves. I ask myself how these ordinary people can afford such affluent grave stones?

It sticks in my throat to see them buy brand new vans in the garage I work in and see the same vans outside the welfare the following week.

They contribute SFA to society

grindle

shangri la wrote: »

Would you shag a knacker from your local area?

If you mean traveller, then yes, there's fückloads of hot ones.
Seems only the girls get the 'beauty' gene, though.
If you meant urban scumbag, then no.

the purple tin

Jeremias Kind Lavatory wrote: »

You have the right idea, but you got it arseways tbh.

Anyway traveler fights IMO are boring as hell.. Most can't fight, and the rules of their fights make for awfully basic school yard boxing.

Tell that to Francie Barrett or Tyson Fury.

Slidey

That is why he said most can't fight

arybvtcw0eolkf

Slidey wrote: »

The graveyard is destroyed with monstrosities of graves towering over normal peoples graves. I ask myself how these ordinary people can afford such affluent grave stones?

Kinda funny one this.

Easter weekend I brought my daughter to Glasnevin cemetery to pay tribute to those who died in the cause of Irish freedom (we do it annually).

Anyway during the walk around the cemetery she commented on some of the huge gravestones and mausoleum about the place.

I said "imagine how rich and important you had to be back then to afford these"... Her reply (from the mouth of babes) "These days if you have those you're a knacker".

arybvtcw0eolkf

the purple tin wrote: »

Tell that to Francie Barrett or Tyson Fury.

I know a little bit about fighting

lividduck

Jeremias Kind Lavatory wrote: »

Kinda funny one this.

Easter weekend I brought my daughter to Glasnevin cemetery to pay tribute to those who died in the cause of Irish freedom (we do it annually).

Anyway during the walk around the cemetery she commented on some of the huge gravestones and mausoleum about the place.

I said "imagine how rich and important you had to be back then to afford these"... Her reply (from the mouth of babes) "These days if you have those you're a knacker".

One presumes that you pointed out to her that Kna**ker is as derogatory a term as Ni**er

arybvtcw0eolkf

lividduck wrote: »

One presumes that you pointed out to her that Kna**ker is as derogatory a term as Ni**er

None of your business tbh.

But suffice it to say its not something I'd encourage in my children since they would meet members of the traveling community who would be friends of mine through my involvement with martial arts and training.

lividduck

Jeremias Kind Lavatory wrote: »

None of your business tbh.

It is when you use that word here, especially as others have been infracted and banned for doing so.

arybvtcw0eolkf

lividduck wrote: »

It is when you use that word here, especially as others have been infracted and banned for doing so.

Context is everything.

I didn't use it, I was quoting it. Find anywhere else on boards.ie where I make reference to traveler's as anything other than "travelers".

Now if you want to ban my daughter from boards.ie go ahead, but you might have to wait a few years.

Micky Dolenz

Mod

We seem to be getting a bit bogged down.

Move on from it please.

Robdude

MungBean wrote: »

Yeah, ya didnt know what a traveller was this time yesterday and now your confident enough to label them all lazy and call them tools based on an article about a group trying to highlight issues and improve the standard of living for people.

Your not exactly helping me here by living up to the stereotypical American who cant think for himself here.

Any time you make generalizations about anything; whether it be people, cars, rules, public policy; the very fact that you are generalizing means that it's not necessarily applicable to each and every X in the set of all things X.

I'm not labelling 'them all' as lazy and tools. I'm saying that as a whole, the group is lazy and tools.

You might disagree with that. Both lazy and 'being a tool' are highly subjective; there is certainly room to argue. You could even say that the articles I've read to formulate my opinion are biased or unrepresentative of travellers as a group and you might successfully sway my opinion of travellers.

But I don't see how you can claim that I'm not thinking for myself. Who told me what to think? Me. I didn't know anything about travellers, went out and did some (trivial) amount of reading on the subject and formulated an opinion. It's my own opinion. It might unfounded. It might be wrong. But it's certainly my own.

lividduck

Jeremias Kind Lavatory wrote: »

Context is everything.

I didn't use it, I was quoting it. Find anywhere else on boards.ie where I make reference to traveler's as anything other than "travelers".

Now if you want to ban my daughter from boards.ie go ahead, but you might have to wait a few years.

In that case I apologise:o

MungBean

Robdude wrote: »

Any time you make generalizations about anything; whether it be people, cars, rules, public policy; the very fact that you are generalizing means that it's not necessarily applicable to each and every X in the set of all things X.

I'm not labelling 'them all' as lazy and tools. I'm saying that as a whole, the group is lazy and tools.

You might disagree with that. Both lazy and 'being a tool' are highly subjective; there is certainly room to argue. You could even say that the articles I've read to formulate my opinion are biased or unrepresentative of travellers as a group and you might successfully sway my opinion of travellers.

The issue I have is with you generalising and calling travellers as a whole Lazy and tools. Calling the group as a whole lazy and referring to them as tools is labelling them. How the hell do you not understand that ?

But I don't see how you can claim that I'm not thinking for myself. Who told me what to think? Me. I didn't know anything about travellers, went out and did some (trivial) amount of reading on the subject and formulated an opinion. It's my own opinion. It might unfounded. It might be wrong. But it's certainly my own.

Because in the space of 24 hours you went from zero experience and understanding to having the opinion that they were lazy tools which you took from this thread because it was the majority opinion. Thats why I said you were not thinking for yourself.

You came in here and went away with an opinion about travellers without any experience, the fact you cited the article you did as "proof" of their laziness shows how little you actually knew in relation to travellers. If you looked at that article before you seen the popular opinion of travellers there is no way you could have drew that conclusion. So you copied others opinions and eagerly threw out an article about an action group trying to improve the living standards of travellers and called them lazy tools.

arybvtcw0eolkf

lividduck wrote: »

In that case I apologise:o

Absolutely no problem at all.

I'm well aware of people's sensitivities surrounding the issue of discrimination against members of the travelling community.

Now we're being all civil again I'll answer your question.

No I didn't correct her, tbh I thought it was funny at the time - not her use of the word but the comparison made between the size of the gravestones and thats why I used what she said in reply to a post by Slidey.

But ordinarily I'd discourage anyone from using the word.

When I use it myself almost 100% of the time I'm using it to describe a scumbag, in fact most people I know would use the word to describe a scumbag and not a traveller.

To the thread topic and their beliefs.

I've enough traveller mates to have formed my own opinions of them and their beliefs and wouldn't bother taking them (my opinions) from a TV show.

To further make my views on the matter known HERE is a thread from last year in this forum.

Lelantos

Ghost Buster wrote: »

lividduck wrote: »

americans are not a race, they may be a nationality but certainly not a race.

They are as much as race as travellers;).
If they carry a gene which makes them largely incapable of thinking for them selves then they must be a race?

I have worked with travellers & the one thing I will say is that the women are more open to change, to education & trying to understand country people. The men have generations of tradition & expectations of what a traveller man is supposed to be, that way of thinking is very hard to adjust.
I have been to traveller do's, in fairness, nothing like the C4 weddings, but I can tell you that one I was at 2 years ago was one of the nicest events I have ever been to & there was an ambassador present also. Settled folk, travellers & an ambassador, not often that gets a mention in the news is it?

Robdude

MungBean wrote: »

The issue I have is with you generalising and calling travellers as a whole Lazy and tools. Calling the group as a whole lazy and referring to them as tools is labelling them. How the hell do you not understand that ?



Because in the space of 24 hours you went from zero experience and understanding to having the opinion that they were lazy tools which you took from this thread because it was the majority opinion. Thats why I said you were not thinking for yourself.

You came in here and went away with an opinion about travellers without any experience, the fact you cited the article you did as "proof" of their laziness shows how little you actually knew in relation to travellers. If you looked at that article before you seen the popular opinion of travellers there is no way you could have drew that conclusion. So you copied others opinions and eagerly threw out an article about an action group trying to improve the living standards of travellers and called them lazy tools.

Nah - I hadn't bothered to read the thread; just the title. Whether or not it is the majority opinion on Boards.ie would have little impact on my opinion. I read the article and did a quick wikipedia search and - given that information - felt as though the group met my standards for being 'lazy tools'.

Given that a group of people can either be 'Lazy tools' or 'not lazy tools' it's expected that a large number of people are going to share my opinion, whichever opinion I hold. Even if I do more research and that leads me to believe that they are not lazy tools; there would be plenty of people that would also hold that opinion.

Having the same opinion as someone doesn't mean you don't have your own opinion.

What's really interesting is that you seem to have detailed insight into what I do in front of my PC.

How can you possibly know if I read the thread or not. Or what impact reading this thread had on my understanding of Travellers? You said, " If you looked at that article before you seen the popular opinion of travellers there is no way you could have drew that conclusion." but that is *EXACTLY* what I did. Given the information in that article and only that information; that is the opinion I would have of any group of people. Given that I've had zero real life experience with anyone who identifies as a traveller, I have very little vested in this either way. I don't neither good nor bad opinions of them. Racially, I'm not even sure if they are different than Irish or whatever, even if I were a racist bastard; I don't even know if I should like or dislike them.

From the article:

They could make you feel welcome, that would be a start. We face a lot of barriers when we go to use services. As soon as we say where we are from or they hear our accent, they look down at us.” She says that medical staff often complain that Travellers don’t show up for appointments. “We don’t always get them because we mightn’t have a postal address and many of us can’t read them anyway.”

That statement, in isolation; is enough for me to form an opinion. Someone is complaining that people don't go out of their way to make them feel welcome while consuming their services. In the very next breath, the speaker justifies what is incredibly rude behaviour (not showing up for an appointment) because they can't arrange for mail delivery and even if they do get the letter, they can't read them and can't be hassled with finding someone who can.

Nobody likes to be stood up. If you have an appointment, you went through SOME trouble to arrange that. I don't have any medical appointments in Ireland because I haven't gone out of my way to create one. The very fact that someone has an appointment means that they have requested it's existence. Not showing up is a jackass move. It happens enough that medical staff complain that travellers don't show up. Not showing up for appointments defeats the purpose of having appointments.

If I missed an appointment, when I did return to that medical center or restaurant or business - whatever it is. I would begin by saying, 'I'm sorry'. That would, quite literally, be the first words out of my mouth. 'Hi, I'm sorry, I had an appointment last month but I missed it.....' I would *expect* that they would be visibly annoyed to some degree. Since, you know, by not showing up or cancelling in advance, I'm basically saying that I consider their time to be insignificant. I would absolutely NOT complain that, after a long history of not showing up, people working at said medical center, restaurant or business, didn't seem to care much about my appointments. Obviously, I don't care much either.

Short of mental illness, I think there are certain things people should be able to do. Basic common stuff, that people who live in societies can expect of one another. Now, if you can't read - I'm actually okay with that. But when you get a letter and the logo on the letter matches the logo you saw at the medical center you requested an appointment at, maybe that means something. Maybe, if you want to maintain a good relationship with the folks who work at the building - you should take some action to decypher it.

Also from the article

Mary Brigit Collins says when her child comes home from school she says, “Mammy, the teacher asked me to draw a picture of a house.”

“They never ask her to draw a picture of a trailer.”

Again, knowing nothing about traveller's this tells me a lot.

First, it tells me that traveller's children are able to attend non-traveller schools. This makes me question why other students in public schools can learn to read and write? It also gives me an example of what is considered discrimination. In my humble opinion; that is not even close to discrimination. And I say this as someone who lived in a double-wide trailer as a child. This is not an example of discrimination; this is an example of a society that (like all societies) incorporates their cultural values into their educational system. And, as I'm not Irish - I really don't give a crap if Ireland has a discriminatory educational system - but I'm telling you, that's not an example of discrimination. I was in college before my parents owned a house. I never once felt discriminated against because I was taught what a single family home was. I also drew pictures of barns, horses, boats and countless other things that my family never personally owned.

I could pick apart everything I used from the article to formulate an opinion and link the relevant wikipedia articles. And I'm even willing to admit that my opinion might be ENTIRELY WRONG; given that I'm basing it off of no actual experience and only two quick Google searches. But it's absolutely my opinion - and I'll stand behind it until confronted with additional information that might change it. Which is also entirely possible. I have no vested interest in this.

BigEejit

bensweeney wrote: »

Your lucky, I grew up in Tuam. Surrounded by them, Do gooders will never understand the reality until they live in close proximity to them.

This +1000

LH Pathe

'tis said, that shorts that so much as cover the thighs, would not compliment the sockless brogues, on a fine day.