Civil Engineering in UCD

maquel sanchez

I am a mature student going back to study engineering specifically I am looking at Civil Engineering in UCD and WIT.
I have reseached the WIT course well and would like to know a little more about the UCD course especially the first year content of the course ´DN150 Engineering´ which is not clear from their website.
I have also looked at Engineering in Trinity but the first two years are too generic for me and one can only specialise in year three.
I appreciate any thoughts, opinions or guidance on the above or anything else you feel I should consider.

Thank you

bnt

The first year of the UCD Engineering programme is also "generic" in that you only specialise from 2nd year on. You can find the first year details here: Maths, Physics, and so on. The exception to the rule is the Structural Engineering with Architecture programme which is specialised from day one.

beardedmaster

I'm no Engineering student, but the carry-on that they have in terms of what actual degree they come out with is confusing, so I decided to try to educate myself on it.

You come out after 3, 4 or 5 years - assuming you don't wanna do a PhD!
3 years: BSc Engineering Science.
4 years: BE (Hons) Mechanical/Civil/whichever Engineering.
5 years: BSc Engineering Science & ME Mechanical/Civil/whichever Engineering.

The BSc Engineering Science is not a "BSc (Hons)" - but it is still a Level 8 degree as according to the National Framework of Qualifications, which is what all "Honours" degrees are.

If you leave after 3 years, you are neither eligible to be a professional Engineer or a Chartered Engineer. People generally only do this if they wanna do their ME somewhere else in Europe, or use whatever mathsy/engineeringy stuff they've learned already and apply to somewhere else.

After 4 years, you can work as an Engineer.. but not qualified to be a Chartered Engineer.

After 5, you can be Chartered - the real deal.

Now to your actual question :pac: (you did ask if there was any guidance you should consider, so I thought it was prudent to include the nitty-gritties) -
First year Engineering is the same no matter which type you want to specialise in. There are 12 modules in total.

10 of these are Cores - you gotta do them.
These are 2 Maths modules, 1 Chemistry module, 2 Physics modules, 1 Electronic/Electrical Engineering module, 1 Civil Engineering module (it's a kinda creativity/problem solving one), 1 Mechanics module and 1 Energy/Thermodynamics module.

You then have an Option where you pick 1 module out of a choice of Chemical Engineering or Computer Science or Materials Engineering.

The final two modules are called Electives and can be on absolutely anything that's available in UCD, as long as it doesn't clash in your timetable with something else. You could pick a Spanish module.. or a Law one.. or one of the Options that you didn't pick - anything.

If you'd like information on the individual modules in 1st year, here is a link. It'll tell you what is you actually learn in the 2 Physics modules, or the Maths ones, or any of them.

Once you hit 2nd year - now you're actually doing proper Civil Engineering (which is something you were concerned with in terms of Engineering in TCD).
In 2nd year, 8 modules out of 12 are gonna be Civil Engineering modules - 2 of the leftover modules are a Maths module and a Statistics module, which all Engineering folks do anyway. The remaining 2 are Electives.

Assuming you wanna do the full 5 years and be a Chartered Engineer, if you wanna know each of the modules you'll be studying in 2nd and 3rd year have a look here. If you want to stay on for the ME, ignore where it says "Stage Four" on that page - that's only for peeps that want to do the 4 year BE (Hons).

For 4th and 5th year, information on what exactly you'll be doing is here.

I'm pretty sure what I've said is correct. If anyone is an actual Engineering student, please correct me on any mistakes!

HavingCrack

Don't touch civil engineering OP, it's a career that is dead in Ireland and will be for the foreseeable future. Way too many engineers and too few jobs. Go for chemical engineering if you actually want to get a job and make some decent money doing so.

The general engineering degree for Year 1 is actually a good idea as it allows you to get a feel for which areas of engineering you actually like.

cozzie55

HavingCrack wrote: »

Don't touch civil engineering OP, it's a career that is dead in Ireland and will be for the foreseeable future. Way too many engineers and too few jobs. Go for chemical engineering if you actually want to get a job and make some decent money doing so.

The general engineering degree for Year 1 is actually a good idea as it allows you to get a feel for which areas of engineering you actually like.

I wouldn't say that now. Granted it mite be harder to get a job in civil than chemical.

Just because you have a civil engineering degree doesn't mean you have to work in construction, there are plenty of jobs in environmental and water for example

If you do want to get into the construction side of things I can think of 9 or 10 companies off the top of my head that will hiring civil grads in the next couple of weeks.

Plus I know that there are only 10 people in 2nd year civil engineering in UCD this year by comparison to about 50 in 4th year. Which means that these ten people will find it alot easier to get jobs when they finish due to less competition

courty08

I'm part of the 50 in 4th year and there is a lot of us getting out of it by applying for masters in finance etc. Things could look brighter in a few years but the money is crap for the work you do compared to some other courses. If you want to do the work load of an engineering degree you're better off doing one that will get you a job and good money, like chemical. One thing is though, an engineering degree is a good one to have, there are a lot of companies in technology, consulting, banking etc. that like to hire graduate engineers.

bnt

beardedmaster wrote: »

The BSc Engineering Science is not a "BSc (Hons)" - but it is still a Level 8 degree as according to the National Framework of Qualifications, which is what all "Honours" degrees are.

That must be a typo of some sort - since (as you say) Level 8 = Honours degree under the NFQ. It's not offered to new students at UCD any more, anyway, but this old page says (Hons) next to it.

The B.Sc (Hons) in Structural Engineering with Architecture has the "Hons" label too, and is also an Honours degree which you complete in three years (despite some doubters saying otherwise). These 3Y Hons degrees are possible because you specialise in 1st year and have fewer electives = less mucking around. But when it comes to Chartership, all the major bodies will soon require a Master's with 5Y of study, whether that's 4+1 or 3+2.

beardedmaster

bnt wrote: »

That must be a typo of some sort - since (as you say) Level 8 = Honours degree under the NFQ. It's not offered to new students at UCD any more, anyway, but this old page says (Hons) next to it.

I dunno about that old one, but it actually isn't a typo, crazily enough. It "counts" as a Level 8/Honours Degree.. but it isn't called one. The only other case that i know of that shares this system is in Science, where if you complete the full 4 years, you get a BSc (Hons), but if you leave after 3 years, you are awarded a BSc - and both of these are counted as a Level 8.

The Engineering BSc is shown to be a Level 8 here, on the top of page 6, in the grey writing. This is the most recent brochure/prospectus for Engineering.
The Science BSc is shown to be a Level 8 here. It's the asterisk'd point underneath the table.

My hypothesis would be that if a degree is an "Hons" degree or not is nothing to do with how long the degree is studied for - Arts, Commerce and Economics & Finance are all 3 years and a BA (Hons), BComm (Hons) and BSc (Hons), respectively.
I think that it's to do with the degree of specialisation in the chosen field - the Engineering and Science BScs are both stemming from an Omnibus entry system, and only specialise after first year. This would also fit with the fact that you said that the peeps who do Structural Architecture & Engineering get a BSc (Hons) after 3 years - because, as you said, from 1st year they have more specialised modules, less Electives and no Options.

bnt

beardedmaster wrote: »

My hypothesis would be that if a degree is an "Hons" degree or not is nothing to do with how long the degree is studied for - Arts, Commerce and Economics & Finance are all 3 years and a BA (Hons), BComm (Hons) and BSc (Hons), respectively.

Oh, I agree - I only mentioned that because we've had comments on this forum before to the effect that "it can't be Honours unless it's 4 years". But the NFQ leaves no room for ambiguity: if it's Level 8, it's an Honours Bachelors degree, full stop, regardless of the name or the duration.

Muir

https://sisweb.ucd.ie/usis/w_sm_web_inf_viewer_banner.show_major?p_term_code=201100&p_cao_code=DN150&p_major_code=NUS1

That's a list of the subjects you study in first year Engineering.

The story with 3, 4 & 5s years is this:

You can graduate with a Bachelor of Science degree (Honours, level 8) after three years. If you do this it's generally because you're going to then to do a two year Masters (hence the 5 years). There aren't really any one year Masters options open in UCD so if you want to do a Masters this is the route you take (although you could do a one year elsewhere). As of 2013 you need to have a Masters to become a chartered Engineer, so this 3+2 system is becoming more common everywhere. Also, if you do the 3 years and then want to do a Masters, you only have to pay for the second year of the Masters because you defer graduation as if you are continuing on so you don't need to worry about having to pay for 2 years Masters.

Otherwise, you do the 4 year Bachelor of Engineering degree (honours level 8). Graduate after 4 years.

You don't actually need to decide this stuff until the end of third year anyway though.

maquel sanchez

Firstly, thank you all for taking the time to post your comments, most helpful. I have some follow up questions:

Would a 3 year 'BSc Engineering Science' + a 1 year masters (4 years of study)be enough to obtain chartered status or is 5 years of study required? If this is possible can anyone highlight good one year masters either in Ireland or abroad?

Havingcrack - what does "civil engineering OP" mean?

My current thinking based on the feed back is as follows:

As a mature student, the 3 year 'BSc Engineering Science' would give me a qualification after 3 years. At that point I can look/assess at the market/world and then make a decision on a masters specialisation i.e. if the mining industry is very strong , I could look to do a more geology based masters. The overriding idea is the 3 year course gives me the flexibility to choose where to specialise in Ireland or overseas. I would appreciate again your thoughts on this strategy.
Thanks everyone again.

Muir

I don't think you can do 3+1. It's kinda like the reason you don't do 4th year is because the 4th year material is covered in the 2 year Masters as well as extra stuff. So doing 3+1 you would be missing out on part of the material. I think that's the way it works but I could be wrong.

OP means original poster.

Sounds like a good strategy but as I said, you don't actually need to decide until the end of 3rd year, so you have plenty of time, & of course you can talk to lecturers/student adviser etc. during your course for advice on it too.

IrishGeordie

Wish I'd picked that course back in the day...

TransportCons

I was one of the lucky ones to get a civil engineering job in ireland straight after coming out of college last year with a BE..... but I want to get into finance too. Pay is crap in engineering these days.... waste of time and energy! I'll probably do the finance masters in ucd or trinity as a change of career! might come back to engineering in the future though!