Finding my grandmother's birth or baptismal certificate

MsSile

Hello,

My first post here...I am looking for some advice.

I am in the process of pulling together documents for my application for Irish citizenship by descent. I need my grandmother's birth certificate or, if that does not exist, her baptismal certificate. I have her birthdate in 1890, probable church name where she was likely baptized, and where she lived. Can anyone tell me where to begin? I am happy to make phone calls to Ireland if that would be easier and faster.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Coolnabacky1873

Firstly, do try and go the route of the birth cert as opposed to the baptismal cert.

The regulations state that if you can't provide a birth cert then you need to provide a baptismal cert AND proof that the birth was not registered with the civil authorities.

You have the details of your grandmothers birth so consult the civil registration indexes on Familysearch. These are arranged by registration district, not county (more in relation to that below). If you find the correct birth, get the application form from the GRO website.

If it's a common name or you can't seem to find it then try and narrow down your options. You have a likely church so work out what townland and civil parish it is in. This website and these maps will help with that. If you can figure out this info then you need to then see what registration district that townland/civil parish is in as, geographically, that is how BMD's were registered. Hopefully you can work this out by using this sections of Claire Santry's excellent website.

Lastly, the application itself. In true Irish fashion the form to get on the Foreign Births Register is a classic piece of old school Irish administration where you need to get a bank official/teacher/priest/garda (cop) to act as a character witness for you. The wait can be long (6-18 months), but once you are registered, you can apply for the passport.

Good luck!

shanew

As Coolnabacky1873 mentioned, when you are searching for a birth record it's handy to know the name of the registration district, as this can greatly narrow down the number of possible results on the BMD Index. I presume you have located your family connection on the 1901/1911 census ?

The Registration District for the area they are living is shown as the PLU or Poor Law Union on the 1901/1911 census forms - i.e. rear of the household form in 1911, or top of the Form B1 in 1901 & 1911


Shane

MsSile

Thanks so much for the info! I went to the Family search site and entered the information, including a modified version of her last name which I was told may have been used back then for some reason. Lo and behold , her name came up.
Film, volume, digital folder and image numbers were listed. It doesn't show the exact birthdate, just the registration quarter and year. I don't know how common her name was really. So, now should I search for the church and baptismal as weel to confirm in some way? It's called the Church of Listry.
Regarding checking the census, why would I search there? I am happy to do it, but can you tell me how that will help?

How can I know this the right one? I am 99% sure it is, but how do I know?

Will the GRO help confirm that I am asking for the correct birth record?



I am so excited to have found what I have so quickly!

dido2

If you wanted to post your grandmothers name here we can tell you if it's a common name or if there are other ways of searching for that name..

If you have the file numbers etc you can order the birth cert by downloading the form from the GRO website, or I know theres a website you can order the birth directly from but can't remember the name just yet!

shanew

The census returns will help you confirm the correct family as it will probably show details of her parents, siblings etc. Do you have your grandmother's parents names from her marriage or death certs ?

The FamilySearch entry you found is likely from the BMD Index, which gives you the references you need to order a cert from the GRO. This will show further details such as date and place of birth. The details you need to order a cert are name, record type (i.e. birth), registration district, year/quarter, volume number and page number. The other details are FamilySearch internal references and are not relevant to the GRO.

See : www.groireland.ie



Shane

dido2

you can try here too to see if theres a baptismal record, I googled Listry and it's placing it in Kerry, not sure if thats wrong or right for you
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=&namel=&exact=&name2fm=&name2l=&location=listry&dd=&mm=&yy=&diocese=&parish=&century=1800&decade=1890&type=B&sort=&pageSize=100&ddB=&ddM=&ddD=&mmB=&mmM=&mmD=&yyB=&yyM=&yyD=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&keyword=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&submit=Search

MsSile

I found my grandmother and her entire family on the 1901 census, handwritten and complete. I now know that the birth record is correct.

This has been a very moving, emotional experience, finding this information, and so easily with all your help. I can't thank you enough.

I am now going to try for the baptismal records in a few minutes to see if there is anything there.

shanew

Here's the RC Church at Listry Cross road on c1890 OSI Map, on the road between Killarney and Milltown : http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,485885,596954,7,9

The RC parish is Miltown and it seems to be listed on the website that dido2 mentioned as 'KILMURRY, MOVIDDY, KILBONANE & CANNAVEE'

see : http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name2fm=&name2l=&namefm=&namel=&location=&dd=&mm=&yy=&submit=Search&sort=date&pageSize=100&diocese=KERRY+%28RC%29&parish=&century=1800&decade=1890&exact=&ddB=&ddM=&ddD=&mmB=&mmM=&mmD=&yyB=&yyM=&yyD=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&keyword=

p.s. the civil parish for Listry is Kilbonane, which is why that's included in the parish name. I think the parish was based in Milltown - Listry may have been a Chapel of Ease. The registration district for this area is Killarney.


Shane

MsSile

I found the record of herNbaptism on Irishgeneology, but the Church register page has not yet been imaged. I wonder how I can get a copy of it. It says Milltown, so it must be the church mentioned in the last post.
I have the record identifier number.

Regarding the civil birth registration, it lists the volume number but not the page number. It has film, volume, digital folder and image number. Will that be sufficient for the GRO? Should I also send or reference the census info to confirm that it is her birth record?

MsSile

Also, interestingly, her baptismal record shows her birthdate to be the day before the birthday my grandmother said was hers! So, I wonder which is correct...I knowit will come up when I apply for a copy of her birth registration, but now I don't know what to list.

annieoburns

Dont forget to look up the family in 1911 census. You will see the same handwritten and signed form as the 1901 and the additional information regarding number of children born to the marriage and how many of these surviving.

shanew

re the birth cert - the digital folder and image number will mean nothing to the GRO, so it's best to just give them the other details (mentioned in reply#6) and talk to them about the missing page number to see if they can do a search for you. The birth cert will include the reported date and place of birth.

Images for the registers are being added to the Irish Genealogy website so it's worth checking back in a few months.



Shane

dido2

I've sent off for birth certs, death certs etc with just a date rough address at time of birth and maybe one parents name

If you know what her parents names were you could send what you have along with her parents names

You could ring the parish church in Miltown to ask them about getting a copy of cert, I've emailed some parish churchs and they've been more than helpful

MsSile

Ok, now I have a dilemma. I found her birth registration, baptismal info, marriage license. The problem is that for some reason, her family used one name in Ireland, but then changed it here in the US. It's just a longer version. I don't know why, but she and all her siblings did this when they came here. How can I explan this and make sure they know it's the same person when I apply for my Irish citizenship?
I also know that she came over on a boat in 1910 landing in Boston. How can I find the ship's manifest? Maybe that would help somehow.
And as I mentioned, the baptismal records say one birthdate, but she always said her birthday was the day after. I don't know what the birth certificate will say, but her death cert. says the later day. How will I sort this out for my application?

adee

I could be wrong here but I thought almost everyone had to pass through Ellis Island before continuing their journey (if they were immigrating) No harm to have a look for her on the Ellis Island site which has images of the ship manifests. You need to register but it is free to search.
http://www.ellisisland.org
I honestly can't believe that anyone used to dealing with an application such as yours requires it to be 'waterproof' in terms of names and dates, because it just doesn't work that way. We can only work with the information that has been left behind for us to find, and yes, it is often wrong. (I hope I am not underestimating the Irish love of pointless bureaucracy here !)
Doing this type of research you have to make judgement calls all the time as to whether particular discrepancies are acceptable or not. I guess you need to just make the application with what you have collected and see what they come back with - you've done well and I think the name change may be your biggest obstacle, but again I would hope they are familiar with this issue as it's not that unusual.
best of luck

MsSile

My grandmother had a brother or two in Boston that she was going to stay with so she didn't have to go through Ellis Island thankfully.

Thanks so much for your interest!

MsSile

An update...I have found soooo much of what I need and even more thanks to everyone helping put. One person has even found the ship's manifest with my grandmother on it with the other version of her name and her brother's name to whom she was going which will show a link that will be, I think, instrumental in my getting my Irish Citizenship along with the other things you folks have helped me find. What a wonderful group you are!!! I was online til the wee hours last night looking at all of this...I was bleary-eyed by the time I was done