Should horse racing be banned?

Richard Hillman

ppink wrote: »

For those who may be interested and speaking about jumps being dangerous etc there were 3 horses killed duing Dubai's Gold Cup last week.........on the flat!

Rubbish example. They were doing what they do naturally, running at high speeds. It could have happened in the wild. Jumping over 5 ft fences 30 times over 4 miles in the space of 12 minutes is not natural.

Johro

Oscars Well. wrote: »

No sensible person buys a racehorse expecting to make money. Look at JP McManus or Michael O'Leary, they don't expect to make enough in prize money to keep their horses in training, they're in it for the love of the game.

Fair enough.

Hank Scorpio

yeah ban it *munches on KFC chicken*

wonderfulname

Johro wrote: »

Again, you don't have to have a clue about horse racing to be able to see that a big race where twenty horses have died in ten occasions of this race is probably not a good thing ffs.

I think the point is that one dangerous and stupid race does not a dangerous and stupid sport make, well, it is dangerous, but not exceptionally so. Of course something should be done about the one race of the season where most fans I know have their fingers crossed, not that their horse wins, but that nothing dies. It's a crazy course, but the organisers recognise this, I wouldn't be surprised if Becher's Brook were modified further after this, it already has undergone serious modification purely out of safety concerns and it's not the only part of the course to have done so. People in the industry really do care.

44leto

When Clinton was here I had a fantasy of shining my laser pointer at him to see all the secret service diving across the path.

mr.jingle

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Rubbish example. They were doing what they do naturally, running at high speeds. It could have happened in the wild. Jumping over 5 ft fences 30 times over 4 miles in the space of 12 minutes is not natural.

The word in that sentence that is the danger is SPEED. It's the speed that kill's not the 5 foot fences jumped 30 times it's known that a horse going to a smaller obstacle will jump it quicker and more fluent but the higher they go the slower they go therefore jumping it with less risk.

The ground for the Grand National and any other steeplechase race should be good/soft going anything better than that and they will have more injuries. The start of the race is the big issue along with the amount of runners, if the first fence was half the distance away from the start than it is now it would give horses less time to charge down the fence.

As was said by former top jockey Mick Fitzgerald the fact that some certain fences have been lowered means a lot of jockeys will bring there horses down a line towards a fence that you wouldn't do beforehand such as Becher's Brook were they lowered the fence but flattened the landing area but now instead of horses going over all across the track they are now trying to come over to the one side and getting in each others way vumping and making contact with each causing a loss of balance.

This thread and the thousand's i'm sure on other forum's won't affect horse racing as much as people seem to think as it is such a huge business in Ireland and the UK it would be detrimental to an already declining economy would lose thousands of jobs across the board thoroughbred's will eventually die out.

I like flat racing but in Ireland NH racing is the king and possibly in the UK too. These horse's are huge physical animals and believe me jumping a 5 foot fence is like years ago when nearly everyone as a kid used to jump along the garden wlals clearing from one side to the next no bother.

I'm not even gonna answer the OP's question as it will never happen anyway.

marty1985

44leto wrote: »

When Clinton was here I had a fantasy of shining my laser pointer at him to see all the secret service diving across the path.

Johro

wonderfulname wrote: »

I think the point is that one dangerous and stupid race does not a dangerous and stupid sport make, well, it is dangerous, but not exceptionally so. Of course something should be done about the one race of the season where most fans I know have their fingers crossed, not that their horse wins, but that nothing dies. It's a crazy course, but the organisers recognise this, I wouldn't be surprised if Becher's Brook were modified further after this, it already has undergone serious modification purely out of safety concerns and it's not the only part of the course to have done so. People in the industry really do care.

I agree with that, I'm not one of those calling for a complete ban on horse racing, just that people should take action when a race is so obviously dangerous to both horse and rider.

mr.jingle

wonderfulname wrote: »

I think the point is that one dangerous and stupid race does not a dangerous and stupid sport make, well, it is dangerous, but not exceptionally so. Of course something should be done about the one race of the season where most fans I know have their fingers crossed, not that their horse wins, but that nothing dies. It's a crazy course, but the organisers recognise this, I wouldn't be surprised if Becher's Brook were modified further after this, it already has undergone serious modification purely out of safety concerns and it's not the only part of the course to have done so. People in the industry really do care.

And by doing so they have made Becher's Brook (where the two horse's were fatally injured) more dangerous with there modifications as was said at the time by certain trainers that they would cause.

cardwizzard

Johro wrote: »

I think the argument is that in a race where horses fairly frequently end up dead it may be worth debating whether demanding races such as these with very high fences should be held at all, or if at least the fences should be lowered.
That's not rocket science. You don't have to have an idea about 'racing as a whole', just eyes in your head and a bit of sense.

The fences have being lowered, alot in fact. Speed is the cause, lower fences equals greater speed.

Johro

44leto wrote: »

When Clinton was here I had a fantasy of shining my laser pointer at him to see all the secret service diving across the path.

I think Clinton should be banned.

My name is URL

mr.jingle wrote: »

The word in that sentence that is the danger is SPEED. It's the speed that kill's not the 5 foot fences jumped 30 times it's known that a horse going to a smaller obstacle will jump it quicker and more fluent but the higher they go the slower they go therefore jumping it with less risk.

I don't want to dwell on this point too much, but.. isn't that why the jockey is there? To control the horse and guide it at an ideal speed and in an ideal position to win or at least finish the race?

37% finished yesterday.. that's absurd.

Johro

cardwizzard wrote: »

The fences have being lowered, alot in fact. Speed is the cause, lower fences equals greater speed.

Not enough. Yeah of course speed is also a factor, plus the number of jumps, plus the number of riders.

wonderfulname

mr.jingle wrote: »

And by doing so they have made Becher's Brook (where the two horse's were fatally injured) more dangerous with there modifications as was said at the time by certain trainers that they would cause.

Synchronised wasn't injured at Becher's Brook, he went down there, he was injured running loose afterwards.

Some modifications are questionable, some are no brainers, they've done a serious amount to that jump over the years, you can't complain about letting horses bypass the thing for example. I was referring more to the intent of the moves though, part of the argument that horse racing should be banned is that it's some form of cruel game where people intentionally profit from harming animals, that really couldn't be further from the truth.

mr.jingle

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't want to dwell on this point too much, but.. isn't that why the jockey is there? To control the horse and guide it at an ideal speed and in an ideal position to win or at least finish the race?

37% finished yesterday.. that's absurd.

Have a look at some racing not exactly a national but look at certain horses and they will be pulling for there heads trying to go faster but the jockey will be pulling him up trying to slow him down. It's very hard to try this especially with such a long run up to the first fence and the roars of the crowd and the anticipation of the race beginning. The jockey's also like to let the horse stride and get into a rhythm and try and get the right judge on the upcoming fence and get the best stride possible before jumping the fence. They don't just sit on them and let the horse do all the work it's one of the toughest and one of the most unrewarding jobs out there with terrible prizemoney, win and your praised make one mistake and your lambasted and I have nothing but respect for any man or woman willing to get on a horse in any race never mind a national.

Imagine in 1929, 66 horses took part in the National! Now that is crazy

calfmuscle

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't want to dwell on this point too much, but.. isn't that why the jockey is there? To control the horse and guide it at an ideal speed and in an ideal position to win or at least finish the race?

37% finished yesterday.. that's absurd.

No jockey is going to interfere with a horse that is a couple of strides off a fence. Once the horse has the fence in sight you want to position them to meet it correctly, but there is only so much you can do. You have to go with the horse, especially when they are riding in such short stirrups. The horse will respond to the obstacle in front of them. The bigger the fence the more they stand off. You can do other things to help the horse such putting those big orange ground poles in front of the fence etc.

Sorry if people don't quite get what Im saying I don't know how to explain it without putting you on a horse lol!

mr.jingle

wonderfulname wrote: »

Synchronised wasn't injured at Becher's Brook, he went down there, he was injured running loose afterwards.

Some modifications are questionable, some are no brainers, they've done a serious amount to that jump over the years, you can't complain about letting horses bypass the thing for example. I was referring more to the intent of the moves though, part of the argument that horse racing should be banned is that it's some form of cruel game where people intentionally profit from harming animals, that really couldn't be further from the truth.

My apologies he did come down there it was when he went loose he got fatally injured

Sheeps

Horses should be banned.

wonderfulname

Sheeps wrote: »

Horses should be banned.

Sheeps should be banned.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Sheeps wrote: »

Horses should be banned.

Sheeps should be banned.

mr.jingle

wonderfulname wrote: »

I was referring more to the intent of the moves though, part of the argument that horse racing should be banned is that it's some form of cruel game where people intentionally profit from harming animals, that really couldn't be further from the truth.

That couldn't be put any better but the so called 'do-gooders' refuse to believe this and think that trainers and jockeys are butcher like humans. Nobody wants to see anything or anyone die but that is life, if it wasn't for horse racing these horse's wouldn't be seen at all and would probably be on a plate in some foreign land as a delicacy in Ireland and the UK they are looked after tremendously well and in some cases even better treated than some humans. I'm sure the head lass and the other staff of these wonderful horse's cried there eyes out just like they would f a relative died it means that much to them

Sheeps

wonderfulname wrote: »

Sheeps should be banned.

no horses are the real problem

My name is URL

calfmuscle wrote: »

Sorry if people don't quite get what Im saying I don't know how to explain it without putting you on a horse lol!

I have ridden horses, and thoroughly enjoyed it. I once rode a horse owned and raced by Bunny Cox around a paddock while hungover. I made a fool of myself though. The horse ran me head long into a fence. I knew then and there that it didn't want me atop of it.. so I jumped off.

mr.jingle wrote: »

Imagine in 1929, 66 horses took part in the National! Now that is crazy

It is. It wouldn't look very good on a graph of how risk management and limitation has been applied to the race over the years, either.

mr.jingle

Just an insight into how a jockey really feels after losing a horse in the National.

http://www.racingpost.com/horses/home.sd?story=1013368

dave3004

Have been involved in horse racing all my life.
It’s a major part of our family. We train and ride horses for generations.

I am going to quash some of the erroneous thoughts and opinions for once and all.

- Horses do want to run and jump. They enjoy it. When they don't, they won't.

- A whip does not hurt a horse. They are designed to make a noise and to keep a horse focussed and concentrated.

- Trainers/Owners/Stablehands love their horses as pets. Nobody is in it for the money. Very very few people make a good living from this sport.

The Grand National needs amendments to it. Lowering fences is not the answer. Race will be run at a quicker tempo and horses will respect the fences less.
I read that near 50% of the fatalies are at Bechers and I can see why. I have atteneded this legendary race and Bechers is a large drop. This needs to be looked at.

The canal turn could also be made less sharp as it can cause congestion and traffic. Lowering the number of runners, coupled with widening the track will also help congestion and let horses see their fences.

Personally, I think the vets at racetracks should do more. I believe their checks need to be more thorough for horses with issues prior to racing. I know there are time constraints but horse welfare is priority.

I feel so bad for According To Pete and connections. A true local home-grown horse was brought down through no fault of his own. I also feel saddened for Synchronised. Hopefully he will be remembered as the Gold Cup winner instead of an Grand National statistic.

Finally, It was great to see Neptune Collonges, who's careeer was overshadowed by Denman/Kauto Star get his limelight which he thoroughly deserved. A classy and game horse he showed heart and bravery in this race.

Horse Racing should not be banned. Jumps racing should not be banned. But the Grand National, which millions tune into every year needs to become a better ambassador for jumps racing than it currently is. Hopefully, the corerct and necessary changes will be made to the race to ensure horse welfare improves. The racign industry wants to improve for the horse's sake, not to pander to the outrage from once-a-year viewers who do not see the inner workings and beauty of an amazing industry.

LH Pathe

Horses for courses

A_Sober_Paddy

I must say that I don't really follow horse racing, but have seen a lot of it in recent months for what ever reason so I've only noticed that a few horses die while racing...

So 3 horses died over the course of the festival(Aintree 2012), out of how many horses?

These horses are treated to the best of care, food and love from there stables, trainers and riders...It is sad when a horse has to be put down to prevent more suffering, but its fair. How many (non racing)horses are owed by people here in Ireland, especially by members of the travelling community, and treated very poorly? Now that's something we should discuss, as it is certainly more relevant, but sure it doesn't sell papers does it...

lisaface

Princess Peach wrote: »

The footballer chose to play the sport knowing risks, the animals aren't given a choice.

Yes, but - the jockeys riding these horses are well aware that these horses could fail & have to be put down. There's your blame party.

I used to think horse racing was evil,then somebody said horses were made for manual labour and such - that it started out like that, i'm not sure how true that is,but it makes me feel alot better. To those of you crying over the horses, how about you cry over some elephants, and other such animals which are infact decreasing and dying out. There will always be another horse, they're not a dying breed, but plenty of other animals are - go cry for them!

mystika121

Excellent article in yesterday's Daily Mail written by vet Emma Milne and not Luke Salkeld (as previously posted!) - although I did like Luke Salkeld's too.

AngryBollix

Princess Peach wrote: »

The footballer chose to play the sport knowing risks, the animals aren't given a choice.

A sh1tty argument. Thats what the horses are reared for

AngryBollix

lisaface wrote: »

Yes, but - the jockeys riding these horses are well aware that these horses could fail & have to be put down. There's your blame party.

I used to think horse racing was evil,then somebody said horses were made for manual labour and such - that it started out like that, i'm not sure how true that is,but it makes me feel alot better. To those of you crying over the horses, how about you cry over some elephants, and other such animals which are infact decreasing and dying out. There will always be another horse, they're not a dying breed, but plenty of other animals are - go cry for them!

People used to breed horses for farmwork and other related items.

With the advent of agricultural machinery there was no need to breed these horses to the same degree.

The exact same fate awaits the race horse if a ban is placed on horse racing.

Banning horse racing is a silly argument as it will never happen. Theres far too many benefits and too much money involved.

Sykk

wonderfulname wrote: »

Sheeps should be banned.

Life should be banned.

kfallon

mystika121 wrote: »

Excellent article in yesterday's Daily Mail written by vet Luke Salkeld.

Oh. My. Lord. :rolleyes:

Show Time

As long as i am winning on 33/1 odds with one hundred euro down than all is good.

44leto

I think Dressage should be banned, because it is cruel to watch.

mystika121

44leto wrote: »

I think Dressage should be banned, because it is cruel to watch.

If badly done then it's cruel for the spectators to watch!

I take your point though - rollkur should be banned.

I Heart Internet

No but the UK Grand National is particularly brutal on horses and jockies. Let us have a race - not a crowded, dangerous scramble.

davet82

nothin wrong with horse racing, leave it be

44leto

Why can't they train the horses to run like greyhounds and then the jockeys would be safe. Chase a carrot instead of a hare.

davet82

44leto wrote: »

Chase a carrot instead of a hare.

do horses like carrots even? maybe let them chase the jockeys, would be more interesting too

wonderfulname

Because they're too smart for that, you'd have an easier time convincing the jockeys to run around after a tenner on a stick for our amusement.

davet82

wonderfulname wrote: »

you'd have an easier time convincing the jockeys to run around after a tenner on a stick for our amusement.

put me down for a fiver on ruby walsh

44leto

davet82 wrote: »

do horses like carrots even? maybe let them chase the jockeys, would be more interesting too

Good idea,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIIAQME1Uhg

NoelJ

This is a heartbreaking image.. Such a sad thing. It shows how much the jockeys care.

Born to Die

NoelJ wrote: »

This is a heartbreaking image.. Such a sad thing. It shows how much the jockeys care.

What was the story behind this pic, thanks.

Nulty

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't want to dwell on this point too much, but.. isn't that why the jockey is there? To control the horse and guide it at an ideal speed and in an ideal position to win or at least finish the race?

37% finished yesterday.. that's absurd.

It nothing new. 23 is the record number of finishers. Thats 57.5% the first year the limit was set at 40.

Nulty

Born to Die wrote: »

What was the story behind this pic, thanks.

http://www.balls.ie/2012/04/16/paddy-brennan-comforts-synchronised-moments-before-it-was-euthanised/

Thats Synchronised. You can see his off hind leg is swollen.

kellybutler

feel so sad when the horse falls

Kerrydude1981

Dont think Horse Racing should be banned,2 horses died in Saturdays Grand National and as Ted Walsh said in the paper three horses died in a flat race in Dubai and it never made the news,its just because its the Grand National so their is going to be a big thing in the media about what happens in the race,horses do get injured and have to be put down same can be said about greyhounds so should greyhound racing be banned as well?? They will probably reduce the number of horses in the Grand National and they did modify some of the jumps this year

Worztron

An emphatic YES.

People that bet on horse racing are validating animal cruelty.