Should horse racing be banned?

Felexicon

Worztron wrote: »

An emphatic YES.

People that bet on horse racing are validating animal cruelty.

How do you come to this conclusion?
What experience to you have with horses?

Worztron

Felexicon wrote: »

How do you come to this conclusion?
What experience to you have with horses?

Numerous horses have been put down because of this poxy snobbish "sport". The bookmakers and rich toffs always come out as the only big winners.

wonderfulname

Worztron wrote: »

Numerous horses have been put down because of this poxy snobbish "sport". The bookmakers and rich toffs always come out as the only big winners.

Read the bloody thread, you might learn something.

Worztron

wonderfulname wrote: »

Read the bloody thread, you might learn something.

Numerous horse were put down in recent big events. Stop ignoring the facts! :mad:

wonderfulname

Worztron wrote: »

Numerous horse were put down in recent big events. Stop ignoring the facts! :mad:

The "facts" are less than 1% are, and those horses are cared for better than any other animals in this country. Bloody humans, always freaking out at individual instances of things without first assessing frequency.

mikemac1

You can't ban sulkie racing on the dual carraigeway outside Galway,

It's their culture

OP, you are a bigot, shame on you :mad:

calfmuscle

Ban keeping dogs as pets, anyone who owns a dog is commiting animal cruelty!:mad::mad::mad:










***I may not actually mean this***

kincsem

Worztron wrote: »

An emphatic YES.
People that bet on horse racing are validating animal cruelty.

I bet on horseracing.
I wear leather shoes.
I eat fish.
I eat chicken.
I do not eat red meat.
I have a leather jacket.
I do not have a leather handbag.
I have a leather bicycle saddle.
I drink milk. (cow)

How about you?

What is cruel about horseracing? I went on a 22km cycle this morning, and I suffered a lot as I had not been out on the bike for four months. My choice. If I was made to cycle 22 kms would that be cruelty? It took an hour.

Horses race from 1 minute (5 furlongs) to 9 minutes (4m 4f Grand National). In the early days of racing all flat races were 4 miles. The longest flat race now is 2m 4f, and most are 1m 4f or shorter (about 2 mins 30 secs). The whips are soft and cushioned.

I assume you do know that horses are trained, and brought on gradually until they are in shape to race? Most races are less than two minutes.

You just give an opinion, no facts.

2ndcoming

The thoroughbred RACEhorse was and is bred purely for racing. The clue is in the name. In the same way that the Aberdeen Angus cow was bred for beef production. Without horseracing there would be no thoroughbred racehorses, it's that simple, and if the horses don't enjoy racing then why do we always see riderless horses continuing on around the track on their own?

Every year at Grand National time you get the same few coming out blowing about an industry that they know little to nothing about and it drives me nuts.

I'm all for levelling the landing ground after Becher's and The Chair and relaxing the angle of the Canal turn but the Grand National is a fantastic spectacle and one of the most important events in the Sporting Calendar in general. If anyone is worried about the safety take a look on Youtube at the event back in the 50's or 60's, it's come a LONG way and will continue improve year on year.

Yes there are risks but that is what makes the race the most captivating and exciting in the horse racing calendar, and the fact that were it not for races like the Grand National, the horses wouldn't exist in the first place needs to be taken into account!

Discodog

If the racing community love their horses & don't want them to die then stop subjecting them to high risk events.

Even if no changes are made there will still be a full field for next year's National. So called caring owners get blinded by the potential glory & are willing to subject their horses to the risk.

Dyr

2ndcoming wrote: »

and the fact that were it not for races like the Grand National, the horses wouldn't exist in the first place needs to be taken into account!

So what? How many Destriers are knocking around these days?

Worztron

kincsem wrote: »

You just give an opinion, no facts.

Since when do facts (horses being destroyed) become an opinion?

ScumLord

Princess Peach wrote: »

The footballer chose to play the sport knowing risks, the animals aren't given a choice.

They don't need one. An animal breed to do something will want to do what it's breed to do. Work dogs want to work and problems arise when owners don't work them. Race horses want to race. Banning horse racing would be another case of, lets commit genocide to stop a few deaths.

Personally I don't know why a horse owner would risk their horse in a race that could easily kill the horse. Horses are expensive and time consuming. To throw all your money and hard work away for a few grand is idiotic.

Worztron

kincsem wrote: »

I bet on horseracing.

What is cruel about horseracing? I went on a 22km cycle this morning, and I suffered a lot as I had not been out on the bike for four months. My choice. If I was made to cycle 22 kms would that be cruelty? It took an hour.

Do the horses get a choice? A dumb comparison, you have made.

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

An emphatic YES.

People that bet on horse racing are validating animal cruelty.

Your talking absolute gutter, on a subject you obviously haven't got a clue about.

I think we should ban owning cats, they are often getting run over by cars, its cruel to subject a cat to life in the city with all the dangers it faces everyday. People who own cats are validating animal cruelty.

wonderfulname

Worztron wrote: »

Since when do facts (horses being destroyed) become an opinion?

Since you ignored the surrounding facts and chose inflammatory wording in order to make your biased opinion seem valid.

Worztron

wonderfulname wrote: »

Since you ignored the surrounding facts and chose inflammatory wording in order to make your biased opinion seem valid.

It is impossible to be biased when stating a fact.

Worztron

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

Your talking absolute gutter, on a subject you obviously haven't got a clue about.

I think we should ban owning cats, they are often getting run over by cars, its cruel to subject a cat to life in the city with all the dangers it faces everyday. People who own cats are validating animal cruelty.

Your?
The word is You're.

People that own cats don't put them in danger deliberately - unlike those jockey midgets.

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

Numerous horses have been put down because of this poxy snobbish "sport".............

chuckle chuckle

You've never been to Aintree anyway :pac:

wonderfulname

Worztron wrote: »

It is impossible to be biased when stating a fact.

Lies and statistics...

Worztron wrote: »

People that own cats don't put them in danger deliberately - unlike those jockey midgets.

The jockey doesn't own the horse, good job proving Aitana Ancient Waistband's point.

kfallon

RoverJames wrote: »

chuckle chuckle

You've never been to Aintree anyway :pac:

Or seen the brawls in Newmarket members area on Guineas day :rolleyes:

ScumLord

Worztron wrote: »

People that own cats don't put them in danger deliberately - unlike those jockey midgets.

I would say they do put the cat in danger by keeping it in a city. Cities are dangerous places for most animals. The only option is to keep the animal imprisoned for it's entire life. I think in general people in cities shouldn't keep pets.

Worztron

wonderfulname wrote: »

Lies and statistics...

Do yourself a favor and look up the definition of the word fact.

goodie2shoes

what people do not always realize about horses is they can run quite fast, have no brakes, and are not very intelligent.:eek:

Duggys Housemate

Cats are killing birds, for sure.

Worztron

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Cats are killing birds, for sure.

That is instinct and has nothing to do with this thread.

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

Your?
The word is You're.

People that own cats don't put them in danger deliberately - unlike those jockey midgets.

You must be desperate to get a dig in if your correcting my grammar.

Allowing a cat to roam around a city is endangering it. How often do you hear of peoples cats that get poisoned, ran over, go missing etc etc and keeping them locked up in a house is also not exactly fun for them.

Insulting jockeys now too, some of the greatest animal lovers you could find, they do more in an hour for the well being of animals than you have in your life.

Duggys Housemate

Worztron wrote: »

That is instinct and has nothing to do with this thread.

Fraid not, old boy. Cats being kept as domestics are killing more birds than would other wise be killed. So cat lovers are bird killers.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/roaming-cats-kill-billion-birds-year-american-bird/story?id=13194701#.T41KAlF8PlI

Worztron

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

Allowing a cat to roam around a city is endangering it. How often do you hear of peoples cats that get poisoned, ran over, go missing etc etc and keeping them locked up in a house is also not exactly fun for them.

Cats get poisoned, ran over, go missing, etc. in the countryside also. The owner cannot be blamed for none of those things. Did you ever hear of a cat flap?

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

Insulting jockeys now too, some of the greatest animal lovers you could find, they do more in an hour for the well being of animals than you have in your life.

Don't make me laugh.

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

they do more in an hour for the well being of animals than you have in your life.

What a load of presumptuous claptrap.

Worztron

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Fraid not, old boy. Cats being kept as domestics are killing more birds than would other wise be killed. So cat lovers are bird killers.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/roaming-cats-kill-billion-birds-year-american-bird/story?id=13194701#.T41KAlF8PlI

Cats kill out of instinct. It is as simple as that.

Mark Twain: "Of all the creatures ever made man is the most detestable. Of the entire brood, he is the only one that possesses malice. He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain."

wonderfulname

Worztron wrote: »

Don't make me laugh.

Read the god damn thread!! How many times...

In particular this link in this instance, you're just showing you have no authority over the subject, and insulting people in the process.

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

Cats get poisoned, ran over, go missing, etc. in the countryside also. The owner cannot be blamed for none of those things. Did you ever hear of a cat flap?



Don't make me laugh.



What a load of presumptuous claptrap.

I actually have no problem with cat ownership, its better for the animal to live in the country but either way there are dangers and people are just as entitled to own a cat as own a race horse and enter him in races.

The point is lost on you though as you are vigorously defending cats being killed while saying horse racing should be banned. You are saying that a cat chooses to leave the house via the cat flap which was provided by the owner and therefore its the cats fault that he died.

Well one of the horses who died in the National sustained the injury while running loose, why didn't he stop if he hated running so much, why didn't he run around the jumps instead of jumping them. Its because they enjoy to run with the rest and don't look on a fence as a big deal and just clear them.

Also if your going to correct my grammar, get it right yourself! "for none"??

wonderfulname

Worztron wrote: »

Cats kill out of instinct.

Oh cool, that would be like horses running then?

ScumLord

Worztron wrote: »

Cats kill out of instinct. It is as simple as that.

Mark Twain: "Of all the creatures ever made man is the most detestable. Of the entire brood, he is the only one that possesses malice. He is the only creature that inflicts pain for sport, knowing it to be pain."

Nonsense, humans are by far the nicest animal on the planet. Orcas and cats all kill for sport/fun too as do many animals, the only thing unique about humans is the compassion we have for our food. Violence is par for the course with nature.

kincsem

Worztron wrote: »

Since when do facts (horses being destroyed) become an opinion?

You should read my post #289 on this thread (and #264). Putting down horses is necessary if they are badly injured. It is unfortunate that they broke bones.

I prefer flat racing, and have seen three horses die on the flat. I have attended race meetings since 1975 (37 years). At my busiest I attended about 60 race meetings a year = about 420 races = about 4200 runners. Over 37 years I have seen probably 50,000+ runners with 3 fatalities.

Do you know that thousands of thoroughbred horses are destroyed, but not on the racecourse? If you look at the 2010 Ireland thoroughbred horse population below you will see an imbalance between breeding males (240) and females (15,345). Assuming equal numbers of males and females are born what happened to the 15,345-240=15,105 males that are not used for breeding. You are whining about two horses destroyed, and are ignoring 15,105 missing. Some are exported, but they too disappear when they stop racing.

Think of the economics. A horse will only have a value if it can (1) win money or (2) breed horses that will win money. About 5% of horses make money but owners accept this.
Some foals are born with defects or develop insufficiently to be trained, or when trained are not athletic enough to be competitive. Then when jumps horses become too old and slow they have no value (can't win money). Flat horses the same. Jumps horses can run to about 12 years old, flat horses to about 6 or 7 years old.

It costs about €20k to train a horse for a year, maybe as low as €10k, possibly much more for top flat trainers. And the owner has to buy the horse first, or buy the breeding stock and breed from them.
Horseracing is a business, and it is the owners who are the biggest contributors, the vast majority paying heavily for their racing. Please do not say that the owners should pay say €50k to buy each horse, have it trained for 4 years for €80k (to say age 12) and then keep it for €10k a year to the end of its natural life at say 25 years €50k+€80k+€130k = €260k.

Year 2010 Ireland
Stallions........240
Mares........15,345
Foals .........7,588

Do you want horses that break bones to convalesce in the horse hospital? Read my post #289 very carefully.

Horses in Ireland have good veterinary care. If they are not well looked after the trainer is very heavily fined, and banned. You might say it is cruel to put down horses at the end of their useful life. But imo that is better than selling them to places like Belgium where they are run on roads (yes) with little concern about injuries or care.

People who are posting about cruelty just do one-liners as they know almost nothing about horseracing.

UrbanSea

I wouldn't engage in a physics debate with a physicist cos I know I'd be speaking through my arse hole, talking about something that I know nothing about. So I wonder why Worztron is engaging in such a similar instance?

You highlighted your ignorance in a reply to another poster when you dismissed that jockeys don't care about the horses. Also, nit picking at a common grammatical error in a debate just shows your inability to engage in an intellectual discussion without being deliberately condescending and snide.

2ndcoming

Bambi wrote: »

So what? How many Destriers are knocking around these days?

So you would rather the thoroughbred was extinct than 0.001% of them dying in the course of doing what they were bred to do?

Nice logic.

Canis Lupus

2ndcoming wrote: »

So you would rather the thoroughbred was extinct than 0.001% of them dying in the course of doing what they were bred to do?

Nice logic.

No, we ship them to islands around Ireland where they can run free and become a tourist attraction.

UrbanSea

Canis Lupus wrote: »

No, we ship them to islands around Ireland where they can run free and become a tourist attraction.

Hang on:

You want thoroughbreds who have been living a pampered lifestyle to be abandoned to the wild, where fatality rates are astronomical to those in training?

Thoroughbreds aren't wild horses. They would not survive in the wild.

YFlyer

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Does anybody have a gif which involves a bad joke backfiring quite badly?

That sure would be useful about now.

Something with Pat Kenny in it?

Temptamperu

Why is it we complain about horses dying whilst at five o'clock or so you will be gnawing on some reheated carcass.

Did you know there is about 4 cows killed every year just for you? I know they where breed for that. Well guess what those horses where breed for racing.

Worztron

wonderfulname wrote: »

Read the god damn thread!! How many times...

In particular this link in this instance, you're just showing you have no authority over the subject, and insulting people in the process.

The racingpost is biased guff. Others have insulted me - how about highlighting that!

kfallon

Worztron wrote: »

The racingpost is biased guff. Others have insulted me - how about highlighting that!

You have insulted yourself tbh :rolleyes:

Worztron

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

I actually have no problem with cat ownership, its better for the animal to live in the country but either way there are dangers and people are just as entitled to own a cat as own a race horse and enter him in races.

The point is lost on you though as you are vigorously defending cats being killed while saying horse racing should be banned. You are saying that a cat chooses to leave the house via the cat flap which was provided by the owner and therefore its the cats fault that he died.

Well one of the horses who died in the National sustained the injury while running loose, why didn't he stop if he hated running so much, why didn't he run around the jumps instead of jumping them. Its because they enjoy to run with the rest and don't look on a fence as a big deal and just clear them.

Also if your going to correct my grammar, get it right yourself! "for none"??

It is not the cats fault that they were run over or poisoned by reckless people.

I was not correcting grammar - merely pointing out that the wrong word was used. There is a big difference.

The horses hardly enjoy leaping over high hedges where they are in danger of breaking a leg - which in horse racing means a death sentence.

Worztron

wonderfulname wrote: »

Oh cool, that would be like horses running then?

But horses dont have an instinct for dangerous racing and being wiped into submission.

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

It is not the cats fault that they were run over or poisoned by reckless people.

I was not correcting grammar - merely pointing out that the wrong word was used. There is a big difference.

The horses hardy enjoy leaping over high hedges where they are in danger of breaking a leg - which in horse racing means a death sentence.

So a cat roaming around a city and runs right in front of the car and its the drivers fault?

What are you basing this opinion on that horses don't like jumping fences? Again you are talking about a subject you know nothing about, horses a strong athletic animals running fast and jumping comes naturally to them.

Worztron

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

So a cat roaming around a city and runs right in front of the car and its the drivers fault?

What are you basing this opinion on that horses don't like jumping fences?

Fair enough point with the car scenario (as long as they are not speeding like maniacs).

Horses are constantly falling when jumping those high hedges. I doubt the horse enjoys landing on its head.

Worztron

Worztron wrote: »

Fair enough point with the car scenario (as long as they are not speeding like maniacs).

Horses are constantly falling when jumping those high hedges. I doubt the horse enjoys landing on its head.

But the vast majority of the time the horse is fine, its no different to getting knocked over playing a game of football. Watch horses in a field sometime, they are always running around at high speed for fun and with a lot of horses would be jumping out over the walls from one field to the next without special extra high electric fences that are set up for horses.

Horses can injure themselves in a field just as fast as out on the racetrack.

We have always had a few horses on the farm, not race horses (though I hope to own a race horse someday) but ones for showjumping or just as pet and they really enjoy getting ridden, jumping obstacles etc and

mooonpie

Worztron wrote: »

The horses hardy enjoy leaping over high hedges where they are in danger of breaking a leg - which in horse racing means a death sentence.

I'm not going to discuss the point about the horse's enjoyment as I've never got a straight answer from them on that particular topic. Fair play to you if you have!

The death sentence is not just in horse racing - if a wild animal breaks its leg it is left to the mercy of the eco-system. Surely it'd be in the animal's best interests to be put down, rather than be killed by other wild animals or left to suffer and rot wherever it eventually lies down after it keeps injuring the leg and can't go on any more.

Now to repeat a point that has been made many times on this thread:
If you break your leg, you go to a doctor and get a cast to keep it in place while the bones knit back together and you are confined to bed rest or given crutches to keep the weight off the leg.

How would you suggest a horse keeps the weight off its broken leg, because they are an active animal. Should it be sedated until the leg heals?

There was an article linked to earlier in this thread that stated horses confined to a stable are at a much greater risk of infection and pneumonia. That doesn't seem to me to be in the animal's best interests.

Finally, I think you mean hardly - I'm not correcting your grammar or spelling ... merely pointing out that you used the wrong word

Evie90

kincsem wrote: »

Do you know that thousands of thoroughbred horses are destroyed, but not on the racecourse? If you look at the 2010 Ireland thoroughbred horse population below you will see an imbalance between breeding males (240) and females (15,345). Assuming equal numbers of males and females are born what happened to the 15,345-240=15,105 males that are not used for breeding. You are whining about two horses destroyed, and are ignoring 15,105 missing. Some are exported, but they too disappear when they stop racing.
.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, I'm sure thousands of those horses were gelded just because they weren't used for breeding doesn't mean they were all put down.