Should horse racing be banned?

calfmuscle

The vast majority of colts (young males) are gelded. Then there are the exported horses, Ireland is a major (I think 3rd in the world) exporter of racehorses. Then there are the ones who get a colic, break a leg, get a virus, get hit by a car etc.

15,000 is a major exaggeration.

kfallon

Worztron wrote: »

The horses hardly enjoy leaping over high hedges where they are in danger of breaking a leg - which in horse racing means a death sentence.

Worztron wrote: »

Horses are constantly falling when jumping those high hedges. I doubt the horse enjoys landing on its head.

Why do horses continue to jump fences after they have lost their jockey during a race? If they didn't enjoy it then surely they would stop once the jockey had been lost?

ppink

kfallon wrote: »

Why do horses continue to jump fences after they have lost their jockey during a race? If they didn't enjoy it then surely they would stop once the jockey had been lost?

because they are herd animals and going with the rest?

kfallon

ppink wrote: »

because they are herd animals and going with the rest?

But they could easily run around the fences and continue with the 'herd' but lots of them continue to jump the fences/hurdles

ppink

that is true.

I have no doubt horses like jumping, I have watched 2 rescue thoroughbreds outside my window as soon as they had enough weight back on they were quick to start galloping around and around the field and choosing to jump branches on the ground too.

do they choose to do 30 of them in a row though? and they are not exactly small either. I have not noticed any loose horses to continue on to finish the entire GN over fences, most dont I would think?

kfallon

ppink wrote: »

do they choose to do 30 of them in a row though? and they are not exactly small either. I have not noticed any loose horses to continue on to finish the entire GN over fences, most dont I would think?

There was a horse called Puntal (I think it was him) who continued on the GN course after he fell and actually fell another 2 times I think. Was about 3-4 years ago IIRC.

TheDoc

sigh

As someone already mentioned, and to be honest you just read the media in this country and it is no wonder people think the way they do.

Got this from another thread

@Spin1308 Two horses put down after incidents at Grand National?Should horse racing be banned?Let us know your thoughts

@Spin1038 Footballer in Italy has had a heart attack

Just wow,

In short, no, and the typical animal rights bollox needs to go back into the woodwork. these horses get looked after better then any of the activist's that "want them free'd" and live in much better conditions then they would in a random field.

There is dangers with everything, stop being a nanny state, as usual.

A deal was struck yesterday as part of the Chinese visit few weeks back, to setup a championship stable in China, to grow and promote racing in China, which is wroth an estiminated 40 million to the Irish ecnonomy initially, with potential growth to over 200 million.

LuckyLloyd

kincsem wrote: »

About 70% of flat fillies are retired to stud ("to the paddocks" if you want to use the accepted term.) Less than one percent of the flat colts are used as stallions. The others are destroyed, not by injection as that would taint the meat. Horse males do not marry horse females. One stallion will mate with as many as 200 mares in a breeding season starting on 15th February and lasting about three months. The other males are not used.

In a way the jumping horses have more of a life as they could be running up to twelve year olds. Many of the flat horses are destroyed as 2-y-0 or 3-y-0. Of course many are not good enough to be trained and disappear earlier.

Hmm, grimly informative.

The defenders and detractors around the sport are clearly focused on the wrong things. The debate centers on horses that get to go and work - when there should be big questions being asked about the majority of bred horses who don't see their third birthday.

UrbanSea

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hmm, grimly informative.

The defenders and detractors around the sport are clearly focused on the wrong things. The debate centers on horses that get to go and work - when there should be big questions being asked about the majority of bred horses who don't see their third birthday.

It makes no sense to destroy a flat racehorse at 2. I'd like to see some stats for that.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hmm, grimly informative.

when there should be big questions being asked about the majority of bred horses who don't see their third birthday.

A horse being humanely slaughtered and used for dog/cat food etc or exported to countries who eat horse meat is not an issue imo, its no different to cattle/sheep being slaughtered for meat.

Its the horrendus conditions and treatment of horses by some people, particularly the travelling community which is disgraceful. I have seen and heard first hand some of the terrible acts of cruelty inflicted on ponys and horses but nothing is ever done. Its these poorly bred horses that are up and down the country on the sides of roads half starved or being actually beaten (as opposed to a few smacks of a jockeys whip) that should be the concern of this sudden emergence of horse welfare activists that we see every year and call for a ban on what is an industry which offers the horses involved a life as good if not better than nearly all other animals.

Look at the treatment of dairy cows in New Zealand, not always fed properly, forced into labor in order to calf within a certain time period and all new born calves rounded up and slaughtered almost straight away after birth etc etc. This is the sort of thing that should be getting people annoyed.

UrbanSea

That is a good point nox. The general public all hear about the horses dying on GN day, but fail to understand that these are the most pampered horses in the UK and Ireland.

Where are they for the rest of the year complaining about the breeding of practically useless horses who are used for labour or abandoned and neglected?

Nulty

Racehorses enjoy excellent lives, are kept busy, given lots of attention and are well looked after.

Horses injure themselves without the help of horse racing. They kick each other and break legs playing or fighting.

Every industry that involves animals will destroy the animals if they are not profitable. Don't pretend its just horse racing.

Most horses enjoy racing - the ones that really don't like it don't win and so they don't race.

Horse racing will not be banned.


If you post here and know nothing about why horses can't live with broken legs READ THIS

While your at it, google the rest and use your common sense.

Nulty

UrbanSea wrote: »

That is a good point nox. The general public all hear about the horses dying on GN day, but fail to understand that these are the most pampered horses in the UK and Ireland.

Where are they for the rest of the year complaining about the breeding of practically useless horses who are used for labour or abandoned and neglected?

The down turn in the economy made it very hard for regular people to keep and look after their horses. Many non-racing horses were thrown out to fend for themselves or shot and dumped for the council to clean up. If your worried about horse welfare, theres plenty of more important issues to concern yourself with.

ScumLord

Worztron wrote: »

But horses dont have an instinct for dangerous racing and being wiped into submission.

Well I suppose that depends on what your definition of dangerous is. America has wild horses and when they get going it's extremely dangerous, if a horse gets out of sync with the rest of the heard they could get knocked and trampled. They would also be wiped into submission so to speak, wild animals are nothing like the Disney films they fight for their place in the heard. Sometimes to the death.

kfallon wrote: »

But they could easily run around the fences and continue with the 'herd' but lots of them continue to jump the fences/hurdles

They do run around the fences in any race I've seen.

kfallon

ScumLord wrote: »

They do run around the fences in any race I've seen.

Plenty continue jumping

Watch a lot of the loose horses here for example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYK8J1gg9sE

Huntley

Horses are creatures of habit, that is essentially why they keep jumping.

UrbanSea

UrbanSea wrote: »

Where are they for the rest of the year complaining about the breeding of practically useless horses who are used for labour or abandoned and neglected?

Its the media that are putting it into peoples faces and they lap it up. (the below is obviously not aimed at you UrbanSea, just adding more to what I've said already)

I love horse racing but I love animals in general. We have a farm at home and always look after animals extremely well, manys the night I spent out trying to get a calf on his feet or sitting up with a lamb beside the fire trying to get life into him. At the same time I'm not a fool and have no issue knowing these animals will go on to be slaughtered for meat, I love meat myself so its just not an issue, the important thing is they are treated well when they are alive and dont suffer.

Then I pass by horses on the side of the road, bones coming out through their skin standing in miserable condition's, Ive seen horses who escaped from the rope tying them get hit by cars and injured and also ponys forced to run for miles on the tared roads with fast moving traffic all around, pulling then stupid carts with a big fat slob sitting on it, wet with sweat and genuinely under severe pressure.

This is why people who come in and complain about the horse racing industry make my blood boil, this is an industry built around horses and looking after the horses. Yes there is some danger to the animals in a race but there is danger in everything we do and a slight danger certainly does not equal a cruel sport or cruel people involved in it.

It makes me sick to see the treatment some animals get, and horses get treated particularly badly, but its not race horses or horses that would ever have even been let in the gate of a race course (or showjumping arena) or have anything to do with a proper horse breeder/trainer or owner, that need people to look out for them.

Nulty

Worztron wrote: »

wonderfulname wrote: »

Read the god damn thread!! How many times...

In particular this link in this instance, you're just showing you have no authority over the subject, and insulting people in the process.

The racingpost is biased guff. Others have insulted me - how about highlighting that!

Did you even open the link and read the article?

From reading your comments the only conclusion I can come to is that you are unbelievably ignorant. You really haven't thought about this at all have you? Post first, think later...or not at all.

mloc

I'm not sure how I feel about banning it, but it is certainly not a sport... a spectacle perhaps or an "entertainment", but not a sport.

If you took gambling out of horse racing, it would be gone within the week. There's very few "sports" you could say the same about.

Nulty

mloc wrote: »

I'm not sure how I feel about banning it, but it is certainly not a sport... a spectacle perhaps or an "entertainment", but not a sport.

If you took gambling out of horse racing, it would be gone within the week. There's very few "sports" you could say the same about.

???

Thats because it requires not only one horse, but two or more horses. Soccer enthusiasts can go out to the park and kick a ball around, most people don't have a horse to take out for a race.

Some one told me once motor sport was more of a sport than horse racing....

Btw, bookmakers will tell you that there is far higher turn over in football than in horse racing.

wonderfulname

If you took gambling out of horse racing it most definitely wouldn't be gone, it's part of the culture but not necessary for it, I would imagine anyone who would claim such a thing doesn't really see much of racing bar the window of the local bookies?

Micky Dolenz

kfallon wrote: »

But not the ones that aren't circular

It's a play on words. Most tracks go around, just like a circle. Think about it

ppink

UrbanSea wrote: »

That is a good point nox. The general public all hear about the horses dying on GN day, but fail to understand that these are the most pampered horses in the UK and Ireland.

Where are they for the rest of the year complaining about the breeding of practically useless horses who are used for labour or abandoned and neglected?

People cannot know the ins and outs of everything in fairness. they know about the GN because it is hyped to the last and put there in front of their faces. The other issues with the horse industry are not publicised to any extent like that so unless people have access to it they would never know.

kinda like bear bile farming. only for someone got off their butt and made it very public I would never know and i bet most of my family/friends still dont know.

Worztron

kfallon wrote: »

Why do horses continue to jump fences after they have lost their jockey during a race? If they didn't enjoy it then surely they would stop once the jockey had been lost?

Maybe they are brainwashed since that's all they've ever known.

Worztron

Nulty wrote: »

Did you even open the link and read the article?

From reading your comments the only conclusion I can come to is that you are unbelievably ignorant. You really haven't thought about this at all have you? Post first, think later...or not at all.

First off, horse racing is not a sport. Secondly, if there was no money involved, all those involved would not give a damn about horse welfare.

You pro horse crew seem to think all is rosy with horse racing. :mad:

wonderfulname

Worztron wrote: »

Maybe they are brainwashed since that's all they've ever known.

Coming from a family that breeds them I can tell you all they know for their early years is an idyllic life in the fields, the best of beds and food, the odd walk on a lead and tonnes of positive hands on contact. They become part of the family really, you get to recognise their own personality, something nothing brainwashed can have, and if they do go on to race, it's the most heart wrenching thing to see them fall, but at the same time you're proud to see them in contention otherwise and glad of the comfort they get at one of these stables because the facilities and the staff are just amazing.

Seriously, stop talking out of your arse.

calfmuscle

Worztron wrote: »

Maybe they are brainwashed since that's all they've ever known.

:pac: I heart your trolling :pac:

Worztron

wonderfulname wrote: »

Coming from a family that breeds them I can tell you all they know for their early years is an idyllic life in the fields, the best of beds and food, the odd walk on a lead and tonnes of positive hands on contact. They become part of the family really, you get to recognise their own personality, something nothing brainwashed can have, and if they do go on to race, it's the most heart wrenching thing to see them fall, but at the same time you're proud to see them in contention otherwise and glad of the comfort they get at one of these stables because the facilities and the staff are just amazing.

Seriously, stop talking out of your arse.

Your last sentence applies to yourself.

If you really found it so "heart wrenching", then you'd never allow them to be put in such peril.

Micky Dolenz

Worztron wrote: »

First off, horse racing is not a sport. Secondly, if there was no money involved, all those involved would not give a damn about horse welfare.

You pro horse crew seem to think all is rosy with horse racing. :mad:

Horse racing is a sport.

Heh, do you know how many broke assed trainers there are out there? Loads of them. Most people involved in all things equestrian make great sacrifices so their animals get the best care.

Worztron

calfmuscle wrote: »

:pac: I heart your trolling :pac:

That is lame. You label anyone that disagrees with you a troll? Very sad!

UrbanSea

Worztron wrote: »

Your last sentence applies to yourself.

If you really found it so "heart wrenching", then you'd never allow them to be put in such peril.

Aw now. Talk about someone talking about something they know nothing about.


Funnily enough, if race horses weren't racing, the throughbred would be an extinct breed.

UrbanSea

Worztron wrote: »

First off, horse racing is not a sport. Secondly, if there was no money involved, all those involved would not give a damn about horse welfare.

You pro horse crew seem to think all is rosy with horse racing. :mad:

Money is involved in every sport. Do you think there'd be a Premier League with no television rights?

Also, we are able to acknowledge the sport is not perfect, in fact it's far from it. However, your points are based on ignorance and incorrect facts. Just because the people who know something about racing here are not agreeing with you does not mean we think the sport is perfect.

Micky Dolenz

Mod

Closing arguments so please, we are on the home stretch here I suspect.

calfmuscle

Worztron wrote: »

That is lame

Bit like those horses........



(sorry but it is after hours, I do love my horses really:o:o)

CathyRS1032

I think the Grand National should not be band. i think they should up safety measures more and maybe have less horses running in it.

UrbanSea

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Mod

Closing arguments so please, we are on the home stretch here I suspect.

It seems we've gone around the track a few times alright.

Worztron

http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/

mloc

UrbanSea wrote: »

It seems we've gone around the track a few times alright.

It's like flogging a dead horse at this stage.

UrbanSea

Worztron wrote: »

http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/

I love how they don't actually give the ratio of deaths to runners.

calfmuscle

mloc wrote: »

It's like flogging a dead horse at this stage.

Probably time this was put out to grass

Micky Dolenz

This thread has long ran it's course and should have been put down a while ago.

See you all next year.