Should horse racing be banned?

Richard Hillman

The BBC had a feature before the race about one of the horse that went on to die. The family were telling them about how much they love the horse and he is a member of the family etc etc. I was watching thinking bull****. If they loved that horse they wouldnt be letting it run in the death trap that is the Grand National.

I love Horse Racing but dislike jumps racing greatly. The horses that are in it are pretty much the ones that were not good enough for proper racing. I dont see the point in running 3 miles and jumping over hurdles. Its just not proper racing.

Discodog

The welfare of animals will always come second to the income from gambling. Anyone who thinks that race horses are always well treated should see how many have been killed during the recession. In the past a racer that wasn't good enough could be sold - now that's not so easy.

But the other income animal, the Greyhound, suffers a far worse fate. Literally thousands are killed every year & it defies belief as to why there is never an outcry about it especially as so many people have a dog at home. 672 Greyhounds were killed in Irish Pounds during 2010 & of those 256 were killed by the ISPCA. Anyone who has kept dogs must realise that when a Greyhound has pups only one or two go on to race. The rest are just wastage.

The National won't be banned but at least Greyhound racing is dying a slow death in the UK.

Jimoslimos

I don't honestly know what way to feel tbh. 20 horses since 2000 is a very high figure, I have a feeling that these deaths will have more media coverage, because one was a high profile horse/rider.

Some of those "animal lovers" arguing against jump racing, especially pet owners, unwittingly put their own pets through much distress by artificially prolonging their lives - not many, but some.

mackg

dr.bollocko wrote: »

If they were race horses and died while racing they were most likely crap horses to begin with and deserved their fate.

Am I the only one that thought this was funny?

My name is URL

Mickeroo wrote: »

They're killed humanely though, i think that's the key difference.

At the end of the day both race horses and fighting bulls are commodities bred for a single purpose, so from that point of view its not cruelty in either case. Its a complex issue.

I guess that's a subjective thing. Personally I wouldn't call what happened to those horses today 'humane'.

Morricone

dr.bollocko wrote: »

If they were race horses and died while racing they were most likely crap horses to begin with and deserved their fate.

Are you for fúcking real?! One of the horses put down had won the Cheltenham Gold Cup, the most prestigious event in National Hunt racing.

You're either trolling or else you're an incredibly thick cúnt.

I'm gonna take the ban that comes with that because someone needs to call you out on your bollocks.

Mod: User banned.

AskMyChocolate

I can see both sides of the argument. On the one hand maybe it isn't right for humans to use animals for sport and risk their lives. On the other hand, there can be no doubt that when it comes to animal welfare,and the treatment of animals race horses have a far far better life than 99% of all other animals. I'd far rather be a race horse than a chicken or a lamb. As for the treatment of workhorses or the treatment of horses by certain members of the travelling community there is simply no comparison.

It should also be noted that the horseracing industry from breeding to racing to gambling is a massive employer in this state. On balance I wouldn't be in favour of banning it.

titan18

Robdude wrote: »

That's only true in situations where it is necessary to eat the animal to live. Sure, at one point in time, we as a society might have needed to kill other animals to survive.

We're LONG past that point. Plenty of people live healthy lives without eating animals. We all could. I eat steak because I ENJOY it, not because I risk death or starvation with out it.

It's only a slightly different type of enjoyment than watching horses run around a track. Both are completely unessential for my survival. Plenty of vegetarians are proof of this.

But anyway - if someone is against all of those things; horse racing seems like an odd place to start the call for bans. It's trivial compared to the other stuff.

Not really, Western society might be past that point but what about areas that are not suitable for growing fruit or vegatables, who have to resort to fishing or trying to breed cattle,goats, pigs etc for food.

Then, you have to take into account the amount of farm landed needed to feed an entire world of vegetarians. It would probably result in more deforestation and animals dying due to the destruction of their habitats or as collateral damage.

lynchieboy

Is national hunt racing worse than this carry on, why dont you see animal rights activists sabotaging or protesting at these events?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOEc30rgW_U

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Where are all these horse's rights activists the other 364 days of the year? Ye only come out of the woodwork on Grand National day.

Where To

I love horses and I love horse racing. I think the Aintree National is one of the finest spectacles in world sport, but I feel sick to the stomach every time a horse is put down(no matter what race it is), and I'm sure all horse racing fans do.

I don't know what banning would achieve though, what would be next?

Ban flat racing because horses burst blood vessels?
Ban showjumping because riders and horses get injured?

Robdude

Princess Peach wrote: »

You are bringing up a whole different topic here.

And its not only about the horses who die in the race. Its also about the treatment of the race houses, and the treatment of the horses who aren't good enough to race.

Which are all much, much better than the countless other animals we treat worse.

We have entire industries that either raise animals for the purpose of slaughter or to harvest something they produce. I don't see how anyone could claim that the treatment of a race horse is worse than that of a chicken or a cow. Heck, most race horses get better medical treatment than most people do.

FueledByAisling

Maire2009 wrote: »

How could it run with a broken leg? Surely if its leg was broken it couldn't move it properly and wouldn't have supported its weight? Didn't anyone else notice? Like, if you see a person with a broken leg you know they aren't moving right, whether or not they feel the pain.

Calling for an all out ban is wrong. Sure, do something about the fences at the Grand National, do everything to reduce the risk, but ban it? The same people calling for it to be banned today will not even think about it tomorrow. Not saying its the case for all, but the majority won't give a second thought to a horse again until the next big name dies at a big meet.

Horses have more then 2 bones in a leg like humans, some are small so breaking a small bone wouldn't prevent the horse from moving especially when drugged.

cynder

I would love to see a ban in using the whip while racing..

I would like to see fences lowered.

I wouldn't like to see a complete ban on horse racing.

something has to be done to stop all the horse deaths...

DEFTLEFTHAND

Oh Christ just read the confirmation that Synchronised has been put down. Sad news.

mackg

Morricone wrote: »

Are you for fúcking real?! One of the horses put down had won the Cheltenham Gold Cup, the most prestigious event in National Hunt racing.

You're either trolling or else your an incredibly stupid thick fúcking cúnt.

I'm gonna take the ban that comes with that because someone needs to call you out on your bollocks.

Terrible that someone can't make a joke without people getting on their high horse.

Mickeroo

Robdude wrote: »

If killing animals is wrong; the top priority should be banning the things that kill the most animals.

While some horses do die while racing, it is not the intent and it represents a small percentage of the horses. The owners pay a lot of money for the horses and want to see them alive and healthy.

Meanwhile, our store shelves are literally lined with dead animals we've killed for no reason other than we want to eat them; despite having the means to avoid it.

I was taking the p1ss with my comment. Those are entirely seperate issues, the deaths in the races are accidental as you said, a lot of those would be prevented if they remove the hurdles. It would benefit everyone involved from a financial and ethical view.

There's nothing unethical about eating other animals and there's nothing wrong with killing an animal to fulfil a purpose.

MagicMarker

Morricone

mackg wrote: »

Terrible that someone can't make a joke without people getting on their high horse.

It wasn't a joke it was an incredibly stupid comment. If Billy No Name with 29 posts had said that he'd have been infracted without question.

Maire2009

FueledByAisling wrote: »

Horses have more then 2 bones in a leg like humans, some are small so breaking a small bone wouldn't prevent the horse from moving especially when drugged.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering, because if it was noticeable and nobody said anything :mad:

I'm not for banning it in any sense, but better regulation, definitely.

Da Shins Kelly

baz2009 wrote: »

Where are all these horse's rights activists the other 364 days of the year? Ye only come out of the woodwork on Grand National day.

I've had an active interest in horses all my life and have always been an opponent of the Grand National. More should be done to reduce the risk of horses being killed in one race like that, and if they won't do that then just get rid of it. And I know plenty of others involved in the horse world who agree with me.

Discodog

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

There can be no doubt that when it comes to animal welfare,and the treatment of animals race horses have a far far better life than 99% of all other animals. I'd far rather be a race horse than a chicken or a lamb.

4618 Thoroughbred horses were killed in Ireland in 2010.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12682680

Mickeroo

My name is URL wrote: »

I guess that's a subjective thing. Personally I wouldn't call what happened to those horses today 'humane'.

They were put down in a humane fashion. I don't think an accident can be called inhumane, but I fully agree the circumstances which caused the accident should be removed from the sport.

Mickeroo

Morricone wrote: »

It wasn't a joke it was an incredibly stupid comment. If Billy No Name with 29 posts had said that he'd have been infracted without question.

No he would not. This is After Hours ffs.

Morricone

Mickeroo wrote: »

No he would not. This is After Hours ffs.

He would've imo. The comments show no hint of jest, no humour and frankly for another less known user it would have been seen as trolling, plain and simple.

Horse racing is a fantastic sport and the thought of banning it is crazy, racing makes up my favorite times of the year Cheltenham, Aintree, Galway summer festival, Christmas meetings. Banning jump racing is just as carzy, its far more exciting and a much better sport than flat racing.

Nobody wants to see a horse put down but it happens from time to time, they are put down so they dont suffer, so its the right thing to do. Were horse racing banned, where would all the horses end up? Why would people pay to keep horses, they would end up put down or wandering around starving like so many unwanted horses are already.

Race horses are treated like kings, much better than an awful lot of humans.

Also people calling for an outright whip ban havent a f***ing clue, can they not understand you cannot compare giving a few smacks of a whip to a horse with hitting a human with a whip. The whip does not hurt the horses. Just for comparison a horse kick can kill a human, but horses often kick each other with little or no effect, with this in mind how can a few slaps of a stick hurt the horse.

Really use yer heads and ignore the bandwagon that rears its head this day every year.

Guy:Incognito

Princess Peach wrote: »

The footballer chose to play the sport knowing risks, the animals aren't given a choice.

They are bred for racign so they wouldnt even exist otherwise.

Discodog

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

And I know plenty of others involved in the horse world who agree with me.

If owners stopped entering their horses we wouldn't have a National. It would be nice if the rest of the equine community spoke out.

Scanlas The 2nd

Robdude wrote: »

Princess Peach wrote: »

You are bringing up a whole different topic here.

And its not only about the horses who die in the race. Its also about the treatment of the race houses, and the treatment of the horses who aren't good enough to race.

Which are all much, much better than the countless other animals we treat worse.

We have entire industries that either raise animals for the purpose of slaughter or to harvest something they produce. I don't see how anyone could claim that the treatment of a race horse is worse than that of a chicken or a cow. Heck, most race horses get better medical treatment than most people do.

+1

It's a bit ridiculous really that anyone would complain about horse racing while having no problem eating meat. The meat industry is basically the holocaust for animals.

MagicMarker

Morricone wrote: »

He would've imo. The comments show no hint of jest, no humour and frankly for another less known user it would have been seen as trolling, plain and simple.

Personally I think all horses should be skinned alive for my pleasure.

Joey.

grindelwald wrote: »

I would love to see a ban in using the whip while racing..

I would like to see fences lowered.

I wouldn't like to see a complete ban on horse racing.

something has to be done to stop all the horse deaths...

Lowering the fences won't help as they'll probably just go faster over them, possibly causing more injuries.
The main problem I think is the size of the field. When one horse falls it tends to take a number of others with it. It does seem like there are fewer fallers once the field has been halved, but they could just be better jumpers than the ones that fall.

KeithM89_old

Morricone wrote: »

He would've imo. The comments show no hint of jest, no humour and frankly for another less known user it would have been seen as trolling, plain and simple.

Youre wrong now drop it.

Paco Rodriguez

Lets ban everything why dont we. Lets ban crossing the street...swimming in the sea...driving...
Horses love running.....they would run too much if they could...thats why they wear reigns.

Discodog

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

+1

It's a bit ridiculous really that anyone would complain about horse racing while having no problem eating meat. The meat industry is basically the holocaust for animals.

But people can argue that killing for food is a necessity whereas killing in a horse race is purely for entertainment & betting revenue.

Discodog

Paco Rodriguez wrote: »

Horses love running.....they would run too much if they could...thats why they wear reigns.

That must be why jockey's get banned for whipping them :rolleyes:

Joey.

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

Horse racing is a fantastic sport and the thought of banning it is crazy. Banning jump racing is just as carzy, its far more exciting and a much better sport than flat racing.

Nobody wants to see a horse put down but it happens from time to time. Were horse racing banned, where would all the horses end up? Why would people pay to keep horses, they would end up put down or wandering around starving like so many unwanted horses are already.

Race horses are treated like kings, much better than an awful lot of humans.

Also people calling for an outright whip ban havent a f***ing clue, can they not understand you cannot compare giving a few smacks of a whip to a horse with hitting a human with a whip. The whip does not hurt the horses. Just for comparison a horse kick can kill a human, but horses often kick each other with little or know effect, with this in mind how can a few slaps of a stick hurt the horse.

Really use yer heads and ignore the bandwagon that rears its head this day every year.

Successful ones are. What happens to the majority is another story.

El Inho

Princess Peach wrote: »

The footballer chose to play the sport knowing risks, the animals aren't given a choice.

i dunno...after a lot of falls today alot of horses kept running with no jockeys on their back :P

but on a serious note,


the jumps in the race today are far to crazy. im against tree-hugging-hippy-cráp, but i am for animal safety.

Jump racing is sound, and so is flat racing.

however the jumps in todays race were the height of men, and far too dangerous. I think normal jumps should be used.

But calling for a ban overall is ridiculous. Unwrap yourself from cotton wool and man/woman up.

For the record, I am against sports such as badger baiting, fox hunting and illegal coursing, but i myself do hunt pheasant. No im not a hypocrite. Im logical, and generally meet a middle ground in debates regarding animal welfare.

ps.

backed losers...they should all be put down :P lol jk

BackScrub

I posted this in the Horse Racing forum before I saw this thread.

As a devoted horse lover and racing fan, I think my time has come to pack in my interest in the Grand National.

Too many fatalities in the last few years has done it for me. Today puts the cherry on it. Seeing any animal hurt is terrible but more so when it's a Gold Cup winner. IMO, the winner of a Gold Cup deserves more respect than to be thrown into a Grade 3 handicap a month or so later.

It's hard to criticise JP and Jonjo, particularly the former because of what he gives to the sport but I wouldn't put my Gold Cup winner in that race.

It's a great spectacle but there's too much sadness thrown in these days. It's just not worth it.

Joey.

Joey. wrote: »

Successful ones are. What happens to the majority is another story.

If they are put down and dont suffer whats the issue. They are used for pet food etc so its not like they are killed for nothing. Its no different to any other animals slaughtered for food/animal food. That said I would never eat horse meat as I look on them as athletes or pets (I have no problem eating beef, lamb etc btw).

The problem is with horses that are abandoned etc. Any respected horse owner/trainer etc will treat their animals humanely good or bad.

There are far bigger problems with animal welfare in Ireland and around the world , the horse racing industry shouldn't be brought into it.

Owen_S

bil wrote: »

o yeah and lets ban motor racing because humans die in that. also lets ban football, running and evey sport that may involve injury. In short, shut up op

There are subtle differences between football and horse-racing. I don't recall Arsene Wenger deciding to have Aaron Ramsey put down by the physio after he had suffered a broken leg.

BackScrub

eldwaro wrote: »

however the jumps in todays race were the height of men, and far too dangerous. I think normal jumps should be used.

Fatalities have increased since they made the fences 'safer'. It encourages the jockeys to go faster IMO. Increasing the heights of the fences would make it safe again.

dr.bollocko

Morricone wrote: »

Are you for fúcking real?! One of the horses put down had won the Cheltenham Gold Cup, the most prestigious event in National Hunt racing.

You're either trolling or else you're an incredibly thick cúnt.

I'm gonna take the ban that comes with that because someone needs to call you out on your bollocks.

It was a joke. I have already apologised for it.

The above is completely uncalled for to be fair. I have edited my first post to indicate it was in fact a joke. The tongue was in the cheek. It was meant in jest. I wish no specific ill will to any horses, alive or dead.

As per above, best left at that, with the apology made btw. Which you seem to have missed.

Bowing out now.

El Inho

BackScrub wrote: »

Fatalities have increased since they made the fences 'safer'. It encourages the jockeys to go faster IMO. Increasing the heights of the fences would make it safe again.

hmmm...i didn't know that.

was just my first opinion that the fences were far too high...

we'll ive watched 85-90% of jump racing and noone falls...so there is one system that works!

Discodog

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

There are far bigger problems with animal welfare in Ireland and around the world , the horse racing industry shouldn't be brought into it.

That's always the Irish answer. The Greyhound Industry say the same thing. The sad part is when multi millionaire owners kill their horses rather than paying to rehome them.

cynder

Joey. wrote: »

grindelwald wrote: »

I would love to see a ban in using the whip while racing..

I would like to see fences lowered.

I wouldn't like to see a complete ban on horse racing.

something has to be done to stop all the horse deaths...

Lowering the fences won't help as they'll probably just go faster over them, possibly causing more injuries.
The main problem I think is the size of the field. When one horse falls it tends to take a number of others with it. It does seem like there are fewer fallers once the field has been halved, but they could just be better jumpers than the ones that fall.

I can see when they are all scrunched up on the field there are more falls. It's sickening to watch. Sometimes after a fenced has been jumped it flattens down and is more easily jumped.

Take the whip from the jockey and the race would be more interesting. If a horse refuses to jump it cant be forced...

Widen the field and lower fences by a foot... See what happens , it may or may not work but leaving it the way it is isn't working.

Da Shins Kelly

Here's a list of all the fatalities in the Grand National since its beginnings if anyone is interested. Interestingly, John Joe O' Neill, trainer of Synchronized, trained Alverton in 1979 who fell and was killed at the same fence as Synchronized this year. He must have been having awful flashbacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equine_fatalities_in_the_Grand_National

Also, the idea that there would be more fatalities if they lowered the size of the fences is just not true. Pretty much every other steeplechase race is run over smaller fences and with smaller fields and there are far fewer fatalities. The reasons contributing to the amount of deaths over the years in one race in the calendar is something that needs to be reviewed. We all know the reasons though - the height of the fences, the size of the field and incapable horses being allowed to run. There are some trainers and owners who need to reflect on their own doings in this too.

MagicMarker

dr.bollocko wrote: »

It was a joke. I have already apologised for it.

The above is completely uncalled for to be fair. I have edited my first post to indicate it was in fact a joke. The tongue was in the cheek. It was meant in jest. I wish no specific ill will to any horses, alive or dead.

As per above, best left at that, with the apology made btw. Which you seem to have missed.

Bowing out now.

Ban the **** out of him doc, ride him like a pony!! gidiup!

cynder

BackScrub wrote: »

eldwaro wrote: »

however the jumps in todays race were the height of men, and far too dangerous. I think normal jumps should be used.

Fatalities have increased since they made the fences 'safer'. It encourages the jockeys to go faster IMO. Increasing the heights of the fences would make it safe again.

Take the whip from the jockey!

Min

Televisions should be banned so not to upset people in letting them know animals die too.

A football player playing in Serie B in Italy died on the pitch today as well, but no one will be saying it should be banned as competitiors can die on the pitch.

El Inho

@ discodog

and do you not support animal cruelty....hypocrite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDySAqR7HQA