Should horse racing be banned?

Discodog

grindelwald wrote: »

Widen the field and lower fences by a foot... See what happens , it may or may not work but leaving it the way it is isn't working.

Then it becomes no different to any other race. The people want "spectacle" & that includes falling horses. The same crowd will be back next year, fatalities won't stop them.

KeithAFC

The race would be more interesting if you were allowed to ram into the opposition and try to knock them off their horse. That way the skill of the jockey would be tested more and the strength of the horse.

4zn76tysfajdxp

I think dr.b should be put down like a stupid crippled horse for his rubbish joke.

Mint Sauce

Joey. wrote: »

Successful ones are. What happens to the majority is another story.

McDonalds Hamburgers.

grindelwald

grindelwald wrote: »

Take the whip from the jockey and the race would be more interesting. If a horse refuses to jump it cant be forced...

If a horse doesn't want to run he wont, if you watch racing regularly you will often see a horse refuse to start. The whip is mostly used near the end of the race so has little effect on making a horse jumping a fence, unless the horse is completely on the wrong stride he might get a smack to waken up, without that he would most likely fall.

The whip is not to hurt a horse it is to waken them up and keep their concentration, some horses need it more than other but its totally unfair to deny it. Some of the best horse ever wouldn't be the same if they couldn't get a few reminders

kincsem

They should build ramps over the fences. Then the jockeys could dismount and lead the horse over the ramp, then remount. It should be a winner with audiences.

Richard Hillman

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

Horse racing is a fantastic sport and the thought of banning it is crazy, racing makes up my favorite times of the year Cheltenham, Aintree, Galway summer festival, Christmas meetings. Banning jump racing is just as carzy, its far more exciting and a much better sport than flat racing.

Nobody wants to see a horse put down but it happens from time to time, they are put down so they dont suffer, so its the right thing to do. Were horse racing banned, where would all the horses end up? Why would people pay to keep horses, they would end up put down or wandering around starving like so many unwanted horses are already.

Race horses are treated like kings, much better than an awful lot of humans.

Also people calling for an outright whip ban havent a f***ing clue, can they not understand you cannot compare giving a few smacks of a whip to a horse with hitting a human with a whip. The whip does not hurt the horses. Just for comparison a horse kick can kill a human, but horses often kick each other with little or know effect, with this in mind how can a few slaps of a stick hurt the horse.

Really use yer heads and ignore the bandwagon that rears its head this day every year.

Jumps horses are not treated like kings. They are gelded and have to run 3+ miles in each race and have to jump over 5ft hurdles. Its a travesty. Flat horses are treated like the kings they are. They are usually retired after around 5-6 years and have a nice retirement in stud to look forward to.

Tom Cruise

It should not be banned as we would have less dog food and they would starve.
Think of the poor doggys wanting their tin of food with all that horse meat.

Discodog

eldwaro wrote: »

and do you not support animal cruelty....hypocrite.

I haven't a clue what you mean - care to elucidate. If it's a question then it's pretty clear that I totally oppose animal cruelty.

El Inho

Discodog wrote: »

Then it becomes no different to any other race. The people want "spectacle" & that includes falling horses. The same crowd will be back next year, fatalities won't stop them.

generally people place money on horses and hope to jesus they dont fall.

Da Shins Kelly

Min wrote: »

A football player playing in Serie B in Italy died on the pitch today as well, but no one will be saying it should be banned as competitiors can die on the pitch.

Entirely different. Football is not anywhere near as high risk a sport as racing. The Grand National is intended to be incredibly tough, with 40 horses galloping in a group together, jumping fences that are over 5 ft. The risk to both horse and rider is enormous. The Grand National is a very dangerous race in which horses die almost every single year. It is not comparable to a footballer suddenly and unexpectedly having a heart attack on a pitch - that doesn't happen all the time, and is not expected to.

RIP to the young man though.

Joey.

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

If they are put down and dont suffer whats the issue. They are used for pet food etc so its not like they are killed for nothing. Its no different to any other animals slaughtered for food/animal food. That said I would never eat horse meat as I look on them as athletes or pets (I have no problem eating beef, lamb etc btw).

The problem is with horses that are abandoned etc. Any respected horse owner/trainer etc will treat their animals humanely good or bad.

There are far bigger problems with animal welfare in Ireland and around the world , the horse racing industry shouldn't be brought into it.

I have no problem with slaughter, it's how they are transported for slaughter is a concern but that's another story altogether. The racehorses that do well (a very small proportion) are usually treated well, the others often add to the problem of unwanted and abandoned animals. But again, that's not what this topic is about, just thought I'd mention it.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

The whip is not to hurt a horse it is to waken them up and keep their concentration, some horses need it more than other but its totally unfair to deny it. Some of the best horse ever wouldn't be the same if they couldn't get a few reminders

My girlfriend is the same way.

El Inho

kincsem wrote: »

They should build ramps over the fences. Then the jockeys could dismount and lead the horse over the ramp, then remount. It should be a winner with audiences.

made me laugh far more than it should have...

Discodog wrote: »

I haven't a clue what you mean - care to elucidate. If it's a question then it's pretty clear that I totally oppose animal cruelty.

just a joke...

your name and a video of your namesake insinuating animal cruelty...

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Jumps horses are not treated like kings. They are gelded and have to run 3+ miles in each race and have to jump over 5ft hurdles. Its a travesty. Flat horses are treated like the kings they are. They are usually retired after around 5-6 years and have a nice retirement in stud to look forward to.

Absolute bull s**t, they run a couple of races a year and they are fit animals who are born to jump, travesty my hole. Go to any stable where national hunt horses are kept and they are treated much better than other animals. That all have stables, their health is monitored closely, groomed regularly etc etc.

Also so what if they are gelded, if that's cruel you should tell all the animal rights people to stop encouraging people to neuter their pets.

Discodog

eldwaro wrote: »

generally people place money on horses and hope to jesus they dont fall.

They don't bet on the whole field. They don't care if horses fall as long as it's not their horse.

KeithAFC

I would rather watch two people enter an arena with shield and sword and a fight to the death happens than watch horse racing to be honest. Get the old ways back into entertainment. It is far to safe today and I honestly think back in the days of the Roman Empire, the thrill of fighting would have been greater than anything we have today.

It is just betting on horses and many of the horses don't have a clue. Boxing isn't that good now and UFC is too safe. Perhaps one event a year could happen in which convicts who are serving time for murder can battle it out and the winner of the event is released.

An event for convicts could involve horses and say 20 convicts serving murder having to run a long course and while they race to win, they are allowed to use bow and arrow to kill the other convicts.

Richard Hillman

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Here's a list of all the fatalities in the Grand National since its beginnings if anyone is interested. Interestingly, John Joe O' Neill, trainer of Synchronized, trained Alverton in 1979 who fell and was killed at the same fence as Synchronized this year. He must have been having awful flashbacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equine_fatalities_in_the_Grand_National

Also, the idea that there would be more fatalities if they lowered the size of the fences is just not true. Pretty much every other steeplechase race is run over smaller fences and with smaller fields and there are far fewer fatalities. The reasons contributing to the amount of deaths over the years in one race in the calendar is something that needs to be reviewed. We all know the reasons though - the height of the fences, the size of the field and incapable horses being allowed to run. There are some trainers and owners who need to reflect on their own doings in this too.

Bechers brook seems to be the cause of just under 50% of those fatalities. They have to address this hurdle.

byhookorbycrook

It's not true to say "many of the horses don't have a clue". The National is not a place for schooling green horses.

RichieC

No.

kincsem

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Jumps horses are not treated like kings. They are gelded and have to run 3+ miles in each race and have to jump over 5ft hurdles. Its a travesty. Flat horses are treated like the kings they are. They are usually retired after around 5-6 years and have a nice retirement in stud to look forward to.

About 70% of flat fillies are retired to stud ("to the paddocks" if you want to use the accepted term.) Less than one percent of the flat colts are used as stallions. The others are destroyed, not by injection as that would taint the meat. Horse males do not marry horse females. One stallion will mate with as many as 200 mares in a breeding season starting on 15th February and lasting about three months. The other males are not used.

In a way the jumping horses have more of a life as they could be running up to twelve year olds. Many of the flat horses are destroyed as 2-y-0 or 3-y-0. Of course many are not good enough to be trained and disappear earlier.

KeithAFC

KeithAFC wrote: »

I would rather watch two people enter an arena with shield and sword and a fight to the death happens than watch horse racing to be honest. Get the old ways back into entertainment. It is far to safe today and I honestly think back in the days of the Roman Empire, the thrill of fighting would have been greater than anything we have today.

It is just betting on horses and many of the horses don't have a clue. Boxing isn't that good now and UFC is too safe. Perhaps one event a year could happen in which convicts who are serving time for murder can battle it out and the winner of the event is released.

An event for convicts could involve horses and say 20 convicts serving murder having to run a long course and while they race to win, they are allowed to use bow and arrow to kill the other convicts.

Totally agree.... how about letting 20 convicts take part in a hungergames scenario with the winner getting a full pardon.

Richard Hillman

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

Absolute bull s**t, they run a couple of races a year and they are fit animals who are born to jump, travesty my hole. Go to any stable where national hunt horses are kept and they are treated much better than other animals. That all have stables, their health is monitored closely, groomed regularly etc etc.

Also so what if they are gelded, if that's cruel you should tell all the animal rights people to stop encouraging people to neuter their pets.

Horses were not "born to jump". They were born to run and they have an ability to jump. There is no need for them to be jumping 5ft hurdles at high speed. When they were born, they were set out to be flat horses but were not good enough to compete at a reasonably distance so they are dumped into jumps racing. Its not right. Let them race long distance races but there is no need to have them jumping over gimmicks.

Evie90

Personally I think there's no argument for banning the grand national, I've been horse riding for 15 years and competing for about 10 and I've seen at least a dozen horses die while show-jumping or at cross country or hunting they've either died instantly or were put down as a result of their injuries. Does that mean that show-jumping/ cross country/ point to points and hunting should all be banned? should riding on the roads be banned as well because horses and riders die on the roads? Every aspect of horse riding is dangerous, I'm not trying to be sensationalist but if you want to ban one race because horses die while in it, very little would actually be achieved as far as preventing the deaths of horses in sport .

As for the argument that we shouldn't be using horses for sport, they are very intelligent animals with the ability to remove you from their back with very little effort on their part, I honestly believe that horses like to have a purpose and that they do enjoy what they do, for example I compete at cross country and some of the fences I've jumped have been up to five foot and some courses have been quite frankly terrifying but the horse still goes and does it's best when It could easily stop and not move and there would be sweet f*** all the I could do about it. Admittedly it is eerie that Syncronised unseated his rider before the race and clearly wasn't happy so maybe he should not have been run, I feel they most sorry for his grooms as they are probably more attached to the horse than anybody and are most likely absolutely devastated right now.

Also (this is my last point I promise) the economic implications of banning Aintree festival would be massive for all the surrounding hotels/bars/ restaurants and retailers.

kyleman

Horses are bred for racing and are treated better than most humans so to ban racing is equal to letting these horses never having a life because this is why the live as they are not suitable as pets

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Horses were not "born to jump". They were born to run and they have an ability to jump. There is no need for them to be jumping 5ft hurdles at high speed. When they were born, they were set out to be flat horses but were not good enough to compete at a reasonably distance so they are dumped into jumps racing. Its not right. Let them race long distance races but there is no need to have them jumping over gimmicks.

Flat racing isn't half the sport of national hunt racing.

Also they are not all bread for flat racing that's nonsense plenty are bred with national hunt racing in mind.

later12

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Horses were not "born to jump". They were born to run and they have an ability to jump. There is no need for them to be jumping 5ft hurdles at high speed. When they were born, they were set out to be flat horses but were not good enough to compete at a reasonably distance so they are dumped into jumps racing. Its not right. Let them race long distance races but there is no need to have them jumping over gimmicks.

Who said there was a "need" for it?

There's no "need" to tack up a horse and send him out over the flat either. "Need" doesn't come into it: it's fun, it provides employment, and regardless of what you seem to think, horses can and do enjoy racing at NH just as they enjoy hunting.

The gelding thing is particularly bizarre. What's your objection to this, exactly? I can't think of a single downside to reducing overpopulation and protecting the horse's health on the field.

kincsem

If there is no horseracing they will be no thoroughbred horses. They are not a wild breed. Thoroughbreds are the result of about 300 years of selective breeding, a bit like pedigree dogs.

These horses are bred to race. No races, no horses. Do you want to kill 200,000+ broodmares worldwide, and also the stallions, and horses in training (racing), totalling millions of horses?

Bleeding-heart poorly informed animal-rights "supporters". :rolleyes:

Jen Pigs Fly

I have a horse and have worked with them for almost 10 years now at this stage.

I have seen what happens to racehorses after the race, not nice. The ones that survive the slaughter house are normally too wired to go to any good homes and generally have very bad joints (Knees, pasterns (Ankles)) that gets in the way with any sort of working life afterwards.

That being said I know of a few horses who have raced in the past and are now going well in the showjumping and dressage circuit.

I just think it's unnecessary really, I don't mind racing so much, I hate the fact they start the horses at 1 years old much more! Horses started at 1 generally have such bad joints by their teens they're rendered useless.

clashburke

FueledByAisling wrote: »

If I forced you to run a long race, pushed you to the extent where your heart can explode does that mean you're a crap human being? I would have thought the person forcing you to the action would have been the crap human being

horses are bred to run races. I assume that a horse likes running putting aside the jockey on his back!!:p

but if the horse isnt in the minority who break a leg and is destroyed, and is successful then thay go stud!!:eek:

little fillies everywhere!! who wouldnt love that if they where a horse??:rolleyes:

Discodog

Evie90 wrote: »

Also (this is my last point I promise) the economic implications of banning Aintree festival would be massive for all the surrounding hotels/bars/ restaurants and retailers.

It may be the last point but it is the most pertinent. No one is going to ban the National it makes too much money in tax. I have been to a lot of horse shows & I have never seen a horse die as a result of show jumping. Cross country is different & so is point to point.

But it is another concern when one race regularly results in so many deaths. There has to come a point where you are subjecting the animals to reckless endangerment.

Nonoperational

Pathetic. The people that call for it to be banned rarely if ever watch racing and have no idea how the horses are treated. Clueless do-gooders. No it shouldn't be banned, and it never will be.

Jen Pigs Fly

gpf101 wrote: »

Pathetic. The people that call for it to be banned rarely if ever watch racing and have no idea how the horses are treated. Clueless do-gooders. No it shouldn't be banned, and it never will be.

I agree, I've worked at a racing barn two years ago, those horses have their own sauna for feck sake
I had to muck out every morning, and someone else came in to muck out at night, their feed is perfectly balanced by seasoned diatricians, tack is fitted perfectly, they're ridden out 2-3 times a day to keep fitness up.

They're treated like kings!

mackg

KeithAFC wrote: »

I would rather watch two people enter an arena with shield and sword and a fight to the death happens than watch horse racing to be honest. Get the old ways back into entertainment. It is far to safe today and I honestly think back in the days of the Roman Empire, the thrill of fighting would have been greater than anything we have today.

It is just betting on horses and many of the horses don't have a clue. Boxing isn't that good now and UFC is too safe. Perhaps one event a year could happen in which convicts who are serving time for murder can battle it out and the winner of the event is released.

An event for convicts could involve horses and say 20 convicts serving murder having to run a long course and while they race to win, they are allowed to use bow and arrow to kill the other convicts.

Releasing the most skilled murderers back into society, quite the idea you have there.

Harry Angstrom

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There is no need for them to be jumping 5ft hurdles at high speed.

They're not hurdles, they're fences. Hurdles are completely different from fences. Hurdles aren't jumped in the Grand National.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

When they were born, they were set out to be flat horses but were not good enough to compete at a reasonably distance so they are dumped into jumps racing.

So you've never heard of National Hunt stallions, have you? :rolleyes:

KeithAFC

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

I agree, I've worked at a racing barn two years ago, those horses have their own sauna for feck sake

So?

Basically that argument is "lets look after them, feed them well and clean them and then on the day of the big race, put them through absolute hell to help the big capitalists win some money".

abouttobebanned

Race Horses are the celebrities of the animal kingdom. They live like kings. We should ban travellers owning horses.

titan18

Tbh, there are people in the horse racing forum saying that the Grand National should be changed because it's unsafe. I don't really see how anyone could watch the race and not see issues with it, especially due to the amount of deaths and injuries as a result of it.

Jen Pigs Fly

KeithAFC wrote: »

So?

Basically that argument is "lets look after them, feed them well and clean them and then on the day of the big race, put them through absolute hell to help the big capitalists win some money".

if a horse didn't want to run he wouldn't.

my own mare is an endurance racer, we have often not competed because she did not feel like it. A horse will let it's rider/owner know if it's not happy.

Why do you think some jockeys pull out? They know the horse isn't having fun and know not to push it

MickySticks

dr.bollocko wrote: »

If they were race horses and died while racing they were most likely crap horses to begin with and deserved their fate.

If anyone else wrote this they would be banned.

Disgusting, shame on you!!!

later12

mackg wrote: »

Releasing the most skilled murderers back into society, quite the idea you have there.

http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1173742551l/321446.jpg

Born to Die

The people advocating the banning of horse-racing will only come out again next year.

Horse racing is a magnificent sport and holds an element of danger as with a lot of sports and life in general.

People who make a living for the most part love horses and anyone that has spent time around these people and their horses will testify to this. Horses are bred to race, chasers are bred to jump, jumping a fence at speed will have it's dangers to horse and jockey. No jockey was killed today, thank goodness but they also know the danger and accept it as part of the life they have chosen.

Race horses love to race, spend time around them and you will see this.

KeithAFC

KeithAFC wrote: »

So?

Basically that argument is "lets look after them, feed them well and clean them and then on the day of the big race, put them through absolute hell to help the big capitalists win some money".

Stop your nonsense, they are not put through hell you are talking about a subject you obviously know less than nothing about.

Also adding pointless posts about putting convicts fighting each other, wasting bandwidth.

Discodog

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

I have seen what happens to racehorses after the race, not nice. The ones that survive the slaughter house are normally too wired to go to any good homes and generally have very bad joints (Knees, pasterns (Ankles)) that gets in the way with any sort of working life afterwards

I just think it's unnecessary really,

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

I agree, I've worked at a racing barn two years ago, those horses have their own sauna for feck sake
I had to muck out every morning, and someone else came in to muck out at night, their feed is perfectly balanced by seasoned diatricians, tack is fitted perfectly, they're ridden out 2-3 times a day to keep fitness up.

They're treated like kings!

seems like they are treated like kings whilst they are still worth money.

Where To

gpf101 wrote: »

Pathetic. The people that call for it to be banned rarely if ever watch racing and have no idea how the horses are treated. Clueless do-gooders. No it shouldn't be banned, and it never will be.

Exactly.

People involved in horse racing care much more about horses than the faux outrage spouting brigade who only appear one day a year.

KeithAFC

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

Stop your nonsense, they are not put through hell you are talking about a subject you obviously know less than nothing about.

Also adding pointless posts about putting convicts fighting each other wasting bandwidth.

Ok, so 13 deaths in the last 20 nationals is no big deal then?

Born to Die

MickySticks wrote: »

If anyone else wrote this they would be banned.

Disgusting, shame on you!!!

I don't have an issue with his comment, it is subjective and should be read as a tongue in cheek comment.

One of the fairest mods on this site and guess what a funny one at that. Like the rest of the thread misplaced outrage for the sake of it.

FloatingVoter

The horse (Synchronised) was making it quite clear it didn't feel like running let alone jumping. The fact that JP McManus and Tony McCoy are either too egotistical / greedy or don't understand animals enough to pull the horse from the race is relevant. BTW, I had money on two horsies myself and am not in any animal rights organisation.

McManus should become a bookie (oh look, he is) and McCoy become a "celebrity", he seems to think he is. And yes, the horse was cleared by a vet....funny vet that. Minutes away from death yet unable to diagnose a sick horse.

None of the three should be allowed in a decision making process near any animal in clear distress. Perhaps racing goldfish will be their next career move.

later12

Where To wrote: »

Exactly.

People involved in horse racing care much more about horses than the faux outrage spouting brigade who only appear one day a year.

So true.

/Oh the National is on de telly
/OUTRAIGE!
/Oh Glee is on de telly

Richard Hillman

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

Flat racing isn't half the sport of national hunt racing.

Also they are not all bread for flat racing that's nonsense plenty are bred with national hunt racing in mind.

Its just a gimmick. Like having sprinkers at the side of a formula 1 track. Flat racing is the sport of kings for the best horses. Only in Ireland and the UK is jumps racing popular because the rest of the world see it as pointless. I think Ireland is the only country in the world where jumps races is preferred to the real stuff.