Should horse racing be banned?

Palytoxin

Princess Peach wrote: »

I believe it should be banned, along with greyhound racing.

Cruelty to animals for sport and gambling pretty much disgusts me.

Sadly is never going to happen though.

I'm sorry but in no way are either horse-racing or greyhound racing cruelty!

My name is URL

NoelJ wrote: »

The race will go faster and chances of a horse being fatally wounded would increase? Perhaps they could increase the jumps so horses have to go slower?

Fair point. In any case the race could be made safer than it is, which is what I'd like to see.

darlett

Horse racing or even this one race isnt going to come close to been banned. This compares oddly with the HBO series Luck that was cancelled after I think the third horsey death.

One senses that was probably because HBO probably didnt want their reputation dragged thru the muck by the protesters. Undoubtably racing takes many more horses than that every year but doesnt attract the same hysteria as Luck did. Cutting the number of the fences as dramatically as a third is unlikely-it then isnt really the same race, the biggest test etc, maybe they will continue to lower the jumps as they have tried. But the fact is **** will always hit the fan at times.


Life is of course about more than death otherwise meat eating, car driving, sport playing events would all go to Room 101. Which would suck.

PK2008

Animals should have the same job opportunities as the rest of us. What I wouldnt give to be running around Aintree with a pony on my back!!!

darlett

Palytoxin wrote: »

I'm sorry but in no way are either horse-racing or greyhound racing cruelty!

Ya brute! I bet you think its alright for wolves to hunt in packs??? Totally inhumane the way they do that :pac:

FloatingVoter

HBO's Luck got cancelled because nobody was watching. The three dead horses were a good excuse. Next time let the horses say Nick Nolte's lines - maybe we'll know whats happening...hmmm...wrong thread.

TimeToShine

Princess Peach wrote: »

I believe it should be banned, along with greyhound racing.

Cruelty to animals for sport and gambling pretty much disgusts me.

Sadly is never going to happen though.

This comment has me pissed off to no end.

A lot of people enjoy horse racing, and I'm glad it won't ever be banned. your comment is the equivalent of vegetarians moaning about cruelty to animals for the purposes of food when other "less cruel" food is available. if you actually believe that race horses and greyhounds aren't treated better than 97% of animals you're just clueless.

I could probably write a more articulate and detailed post but i'm actually too irritated, can't believe there's people out there this stupid.

token101

My name is URL wrote: »

Well that's not really where I was coming from. I'd sooner see the short-arsed jockeys than horses be whipped and made to jump over ridiculously high fences.

It just seems like a crude sport.. and it's considered to be one of the main sporting occasions of the year. That race did not seem very sporting to me. The winner was whipped far more than the rules are supposed to allow for.

People get all preachy and upset over bullfighting whenever it comes up here, so why is it not the same for this sport?

Because this is a laughable and ridiculously stupid comparison.

My name is URL

token101 wrote: »

Because this is a laughable and ridiculously stupid comparison.

Says the guy that brought you the following gems

token101 wrote: »

FFS stop. People die everyday crossing the street. Should we ban that? Are you both vegetarians? We breed plenty of animals just to kill them FFS. Want to ban that?

token101

My name is URL wrote: »

Says the guy that brought you the following gems

Well, as the informed one, would like to explain us how the two sports are comparable?

the groutch

The welfare/quality of life of 99.999% of racehorses is as good as or better than if they were privately stabled.

Rabidlamb

I see the lilly liberal cray loons are out in force in this thread.
Do they not recognise that these beautiful animals wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the horse racing industry.
These are thoroughbred animals that love to run, it's what they've been bred to do.

I often wonder if these kneejerk reactionists were made aware of the 10's of thousands of animals killed daily for meat industry would their head explode.

My name is URL

token101 wrote: »

Well, as the informed one, would like to explain us how the two sports are comparable?

I didn't say that they were comparable. I said that I don't understand how people can decry one while defending the needless dangers involved in the other.

44leto

I think it could be made safer for the horses, but i wouldn.t ban it. Its a huge international employer it also a massive export here and a lot of it is Irish industry.

Wattle

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I see the lilly liberal cray loons are out in force in this thread.
Do they not recognise that these beautiful animals wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the horse racing industry.
These are thoroughbred animals that love to run, it's what they've been bred to do.

I often wonder if these kneejerk reactionists were made aware of the 10's of thousands of animals killed daily for meat industry would their head explode.

Its not the running that kills them it's the huge man made fences

darlett

Princess Peach wrote: »

The footballer chose to play the sport knowing risks, the animals aren't given a choice.

Except having a heart attack isn't really a risk of playing football. Go out there, give your all, but don't break a leg...or have a heart attack.

token101

My name is URL wrote: »

I didn't say that they were comparable. I said that I don't understand how people can decry one while defending the needless dangers involved in the other.

Maybe they have a brain and can see they are two entirely different sports?

FloatingVoter

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I see the lilly liberal cray loons are out in force in this thread.
Do they not recognise that these beautiful animals wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the horse racing industry.
These are thoroughbred animals that love to run, it's what they've been bred to do.

I often wonder if these kneejerk reactionists were made aware of the 10's of thousands of animals killed daily for meat industry would their head explode.

Just finished my lamb chops. Horses love eating, running and then running some more. They do not by nature - jump over crap they can walk around. I like racing, my Paddy Power a/c will vouch for it. I do not like Beechers Brook. Many before me have expressed the same opinion about that "jump". Two dead, and one who should never have started probably means the last of that stupidity. The GN will continue. People will be hit by buses and meat-eaters won't like horseracing. Thats the world for you.

My name is URL

token101 wrote: »

Maybe they have a brain and can see they are two entirely different sports?

Which part of my post are you arguing against exactly? I have already said that the two sports are incomparable. The thrust of my point was about the welfare of the animals involved.. not the sport itself.

Do you not think that some steps could be taken in order to increase the safety of horses in the race?

BOHtox

My name is URL wrote: »

Or at least, should they get rid of jump racing?

Two horses died at the Grand National today. I never actually watch or bet on the sport but just happened to see the race today. Loads of other horses fell while going over the fences. It's a wonder that there were only two fatalities.

Is it worth it? Would the sport not be just as enjoyable if there were no fences? Doesn't make any sense to me to risk the lives of both jockeys and horses by having them jump.

What say you?

Horses would be useless without racing. Horses are only used for riding and racing. No racing would mean no horses. Is that what you want? People don't have horses for the laugh!

Even if racing was banned it would still happen, only smaller, in an illegal manner. They would show no respect for the horses' welfare and would be purely in it for the money.

No one talks about football where players tragically die on the pitch saying that should be banned as they push their bodies so hard sometimes it is inevitable that some bodies can't take it any more.

We should keep it the way it is. How they fell was awful. ATP was tripped and Synchronised got up and kept running with the adrenaline. Horses are meant for racing, they love racing and they are the best looked after animals in the world.

The reason they were killed is to stop them from feeling pain from a irrecoverable injury!

BOHtox

Princess Peach wrote: »

I believe it should be banned, along with greyhound racing.

Cruelty to animals for sport and gambling pretty much disgusts me.

Sadly is never going to happen though.

How is it cruel? These animals are among the best looked after animals in the world? They live in great conditions ran by proper trainers. The opposite to this would be making it illegal and then an industry of illegal racing would start. Do you think there'd be such standards in this industry? Not a chance!

Jen Pigs Fly

My name is URL wrote: »

Well they're certainly looked after well once they are still turning a profit for the owners. After that though, life is not so easy for them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12682680

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/06/racehorse-slaughter-animal-welfare

That link from the guardian is horrible inaccurate.

Racehorses revieve vaccinations, therefore are not fit for consumption by any other animal. my own horse has a stamp in her passport saying she is not for human/animal consumption. racehorses will have the same in theirs.

yes they're going to slaughter, but it's due to the fact that there are no homes for them, they are not being slaughtered for 'dog food'

Eire-Dearg

My name is URL wrote: »

Or at least, should they get rid of jump racing?

Two horses died at the Grand National today. I never actually watch or bet on the sport but just happened to see the race today. Loads of other horses fell while going over the fences. It's a wonder that there were only two fatalities.

Is it worth it? Would the sport not be just as enjoyable if there were no fences? Doesn't make any sense to me to risk the lives of both jockeys and horses by having them jump.

What say you?

I stopped reading.

Jen Pigs Fly

Born to Die wrote: »

Do race horses of this pedigree get buried or are they used as pet food.

(Serious question)

Cannot be used as pet food due to their vaccinations.

token101

My name is URL wrote: »

Which part of my post are you arguing against exactly? I have already said that the two sports are incomparable. The thrust of my point was about the welfare of the animals involved.. not the sport itself.

Do you not think that some steps could be taken in order to increase the safety of horses in the race?

You say they should ban jump racing. You then said you never watch the sport. So you're commenting on something you know sweet FA about. They have been altering the course of the National for years. And probably will continue to do so. Some changes should be made to the course at the National. But banning something entirely just because it isn't totally safe is a f***ing stupid philosophy, one usually fronted people who haven't a clue what they're on about. It's a sport people enjoy. The horses are treated very well. Some die, most don't.

My name is URL

BOHtox wrote: »

Horses would be useless without racing. Horses are only used for riding and racing. No racing would mean no horses. Is that what you want? People don't have horses for the laugh!

Even if racing was banned it would still happen, only smaller, in an illegal manner. They would show no respect for the horses' welfare and would be purely in it for the money.

No one talks about football where players tragically die on the pitch saying that should be banned as they push their bodies so hard sometimes it is inevitable that some bodies can't take it any more.

We should keep it the way it is. How they fell was awful. ATP was tripped and Synchronised got up and kept running with the adrenaline. Horses are meant for racing, they love racing and they are the best looked after animals in the world.

The reason they were killed is to stop them from feeling pain from a irrecoverable injury!

I shouldn't have asked about banning it in the thread title. Tbh, that was just to grab peoples attention. I also asked whether hunt racing should just be done away with.

People do talk about footballers and heart attacks. It's impossible to protect against that as you can't predict when it's going to happen. You could make a solid prediction that horses will die at any Grand National though, and my overall question and point was about ways of reducing the likelihood of that happening.

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

I stopped reading.

Okay, well I hope you apply that logic to all other sports too. I've never attended a bare-knuckle fight but would still have an opinion on it.. is that ok?

Jen Pigs Fly

At the speeds that horses go while racing it's incredibly dangerous to expect them to jump such big fences.

Whenever I did showjumping we were always thought how to 'set up' the horse and to 'give a check' before each and every jump, you cannot expect a horse to jump such a big jump from a flat out gallop they will jump it wide and/or flat and will hurt themselves. When jumping a horse you hold it and keep it steady - 'checking' the horse - racing does not allow for this.

I don't mind racing at all, the industry is employing a lot of people and the horses are treated brilliantly, it's hunt racing and steeplechasing I do not like, horses are not made to jump at those speeds.

Born to Die

Would anyone care if they raced pigs over the grand national course and a couple of them got killed?

hypersquirrel

I could be wrong about this but if memory serves me correctly they did experiment with lowering the fences and found that it increased the number of fallers because they took the fences faster. The majority of problems in the National occur during the first circuit so it's also not a matter of length.

If it were up to me I would leave the course as is and reduce the number on the field to 25 or 30. That would hopefully weed out the ones that aren't able to travel such distances and prevent the crush you get at the first few fences. Once the pack breaks up the falls become far less common.

BOHtox

Green Diesel wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what happens which makes it necessary to destroy them? Broken legs?

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

At the speeds that horses go while racing it's incredibly dangerous to expect them to jump such big fences.

Whenever I did showjumping we were always thought how to 'set up' the horse and to 'give a check' before each and every jump, you cannot expect a horse to jump such a big jump from a flat out gallop they will jump it wide and/or flat and will hurt themselves. When jumping a horse you hold it and keep it steady - 'checking' the horse - racing does not allow for this.

I don't mind racing at all, the industry is employing a lot of people and the horses are treated brilliantly, it's hunt racing and steeplechasing I do not like, horses are not made to jump at those speeds.

200 mp/h corners in Formula 1. Hugh strides have been made to make it safer while keeping the entertainment in the sport.

Same is happening with horse racing!

Dyr

BOHtox wrote: »

How is it cruel? These animals are among the best looked after animals in the world? They live in great conditions ran by proper trainers. The opposite to this would be making it illegal and then an industry of illegal racing would start. Do you think there'd be such standards in this industry? Not a chance!

So do fighting cocks, they live like avian f***in kings until another cock kills them in a fight ...and they absolutely love to fight (oh wait, that's the selective breeding, just like the gee gee's). I reckon we should probably bring cockfighting back as entertainment

And yes, that is the logic of our resident horse racers :cool:

Jen Pigs Fly

BOHtox wrote: »

200 mp/h corners in Formula 1. Hugh strides have been made to make it safer while keeping the entertainment in the sport.

Same is happening with horse racing!

You would be surprised just how hard it is to slow an excitable horse when at full gallop. I'd doubt a speed limit would work :rolleyes:

BOHtox

Bambi wrote: »

So do fighting cocks, they live like avian f***in kings until another cock kills them in a fight ...and they absolutely love to fight (oh wait, that's the selective breeding, just like the gee gee's). I reckon we should probably bring cockfighting back as entertainment

And yes, that is the logic of our resident horse racers :cool:

No. Breeding two animals to fight is wrong. Breeding animals to kill is wrong. Breeding animals at what they love to do is right. Can you actually see no difference between Cock fighting and Horse racing?

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

You would be surprised just how hard it is to slow an excitable horse when at full gallop. I'd doubt a speed limit would work :rolleyes:

Well actually it's the laws of physics and not a speed limit.
I mean technology will improve to protect the horse and jockey as has already happened in the last decade and will happen in the next decade

Dyr

TimeToShine wrote: »

This comment has me pissed off to no end.

A lot of people enjoy horse racing, and I'm glad it won't ever be banned. your comment is the equivalent of vegetarians moaning about cruelty to animals for the purposes of food when other "less cruel" food is available. if you actually believe that race horses and greyhounds aren't treated better than 97% of animals you're just clueless.

I could probably write a more articulate and detailed post but i'm actually too irritated, can't believe there's people out there this stupid.

You wont write it because your argument is cock eyed. Any animal that's being used for profit, will be treated in a manner that maximises the profit. If treating the animal like a king means you're making a packet, then you'll do that. If putting the animals life at risk means you'll maximise your profit you'll do that. If letting the animal starve to death or blowing its head off means you'll maximise your profit then that's what is done.

My problem is the moral whatabouttery that goes on when its your entertainment dollar that's driving this yet you haven't the honesty to admit that you couldnt care less what the industry inflicting on the dumb beasts that are being used to entertain yiz.

Eire-Dearg

My name is URL wrote: »

Okay, well I hope you apply that logic to all other sports too. I've never attended a bare-knuckle fight but would still have an opinion on it.. is that ok?

Yes, because bare-knuckle fighting is a sport televised to millions of people around the world! :rolleyes:

"Loads of horses" fall across racecourses all over Britain & Ireland every day, unfortunately the biggest jump racing event of the year pushes some to their limit and accidents happen. If you actually watched the sport you'd know this. Even accidents happen in flat racing without hurdles, it's an unfortunate negative to the game.

But jumping to such an hilarious thought that horse racing should be banned or jump racing done away with while also revealing you never watch the sport and are thus incredibly ill-formed, I was never going to read on.

The real debate is what moves should be made to make this race safer, be it lowering the number of runners or shortening the fences and altering the track.

Jen Pigs Fly

BOHtox wrote: »

Well actually it's the laws of physics and not a speed limit.
I mean technology will improve to protect the horse and jockey as has already happened in the last decade and will happen in the next decade

Again, excitable horse had a mind of it's own, no amount of technology could stop an excitable horse.
my own mare has almost ran herself into a bit of trouble, she got so excited during a race that she just did not want to stop, even though I knew she was going way too fast and at a pace she can't handle for long. It took me a good 5 mins just to steady her never mind trying to slow her down.

This mare was comfy, happy and rearing to go, which is why she got so excited! technology of any sort couldn't have stopped her at the point she got to! And she got to that point very quickly too

While measure can be added to make sure of horse and rider safety, we still must remember these are flight animals who are designed to run away from something scary/run with the herd, we can never 100% predict a horse and it's movements.

Born to Die

Would anyone care if they raced zebras over the grand national course and a couple of them got killed?

Jen Pigs Fly

Born to Die wrote: »

Would anyone care if they raced zebras over the grand national course and a couple of them got killed?

If they raced zebras in the grand national there would be outroar not because of the race but because zebra are not made to jump the heights expected of the grand national. There would be outcry about the unfairness of it, not because they were zebra.

Born to Die

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

If they raced zebras in the grand national there would be outroar not because of the race but because zebra are not made to jump the heights expected of the grand national. There would be outcry about the unfairness of it, not because they were zebra.

Giraffes?

Can Giraffes jump, the fences wouldn't be an issue if they can.
Would it be unfair to change the animal used to a more suitable animal, I just can't think of one that is suitable!!

gsxr1

love racing . As does the horses and riders by the look today. Horses could not wait to get away and run. Its what they want.


But why do the horses get put to sleep with a broken leg??


I broke my leg 2 years ago. Im well again now.

Im sure the vet has the best interest of the animal in question, but surly with a bit of time and effort , the horse could at least be let heal and live out its life. Especially after the contribution synchronised made in the past?

Born to Die

gsxr1 wrote: »

love racing . As does the horses and riders by the look today. Horses could not wait to get away and run. Its what they want.


But why do the horses get put to sleep with a broken leg??


I broke my leg 2 years ago. Im well again now.

Im sure the vet has the best interest of the animal in question, but surly with a bit of time and effort , the horse could at least be let heal and live out its life. Especially after the contribution synchronised made in the past?

Horses I believe are missing the marrow that repairs bone, I think I read that somewhere,.

My name is URL

Born to Die wrote: »

Would anyone care if they raced pigs over the grand national course and a couple of them got killed?

Born to Die wrote: »

Would anyone care if they raced zebras over the grand national course and a couple of them got killed?

What are you on about? :pac:

byhookorbycrook

It takes a long time for a horse to heal a broken leg, they would have to be immobilised for a no. of months and even then, may never heal.it is downright inhumane to expect a horse to be tied up for that length of time.

Born to Die

My name is URL wrote: »

What are you on about? :pac:

Give it a minute, it will come to you.

Joey.

gsxr1 wrote: »

love racing . As does the horses and riders by the look today. Horses could not wait to get away and run. Its what they want.


But why do the horses get put to sleep with a broken leg??


I broke my leg 2 years ago. Im well again now.

Im sure the vet has the best interest of the animal in question, but surly with a bit of time and effort , the horse could at least be let heal and live out its life. Especially after the contribution synchronised made in the past?

It depends on how it's broken. I've heard of horses recovering from broken splint bones but oftentimes the injury is severe enough that it's not worth the recovery process which can be very distressing for horses, especially highly strung ones like racehorses. Many horses just can't cope with months upon months of box rest.
Usually being put down is in the animal's best interest.

NoelJ

Joey. wrote: »

It depends on how it's broken. I've heard of horses recovering from broken splint bones but oftentimes the injury is severe enough that it's not worth the recovery process which can be very distressing for horses, especially highly strung ones like racehorses. Many horses just can't cope with months upon months of box rest.
Usually being put down is in the animal's best interest.

They were saying on BBC that the horse usually gets pneumonia and will die from that anyway.

mikemac1

gsxr1 wrote: »

But why do the horses get put to sleep with a broken leg??

Im sure the vet has the best interest of the animal in question, but surly with a bit of time and effort , the horse could at least be let heal and live out its life.

A horse leg is far more complex and has more bones then a human leg.
What makes it so fast also makes it fragile

Also a horse cannot support itself with a broken leg
You can with crutches. So can your dog and your cat but a horse weighs several hundred kilos and cannot

If it's not a full fracture then there are options but it's very difficult to bring about a full recovery. It's possible but it's unlikely
Vets don't make these decisions lighty and of course either do the owners, whether it's a family horse for children or a racehorse worth thousands.

But with a full fracture there is very little that can be done. The horse cannot stand up and the best quality of life is crawling and struggling around the ground in a stall in pain.
Putting it down is for the best

irishgeo

family guy did a great sketch on this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjq9tIJVenc

AngryBollix

Soon everything avenue of pleasure will be closed off by cranks.

gsxr1

Joey. wrote: »

It depends on how it's broken. I've heard of horses recovering from broken splint bones but oftentimes the injury is severe enough that it's not worth the recovery process which can be very distressing for horses, especially highly strung ones like racehorses. Many horses just can't cope with months upon months of box rest.
Usually being put down is in the animal's best interest.

I dont know. I cant see if it was any creatures best interest to be dead as opposed to alive with a sore leg.

Its hard to know with out being a vet or knowing the severity of the the injury. But just ending its life without an effort to try and heal the nag seems unjust. Hard as recovery is, could it be more of an economic decision as recovery cost would not be worth it?

EDIT.

Explained by mike. thanks. Maybe it is fo the best.