Should horse racing be banned?

Frank Black

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

And yeah, you're probably right about it not being a big word. I mean, I'm sure I use the word "anthropomorphism" at least 10 times a day in my conversations with people. :rolleyes:

Slagging people off for having a better vocabulary than you, makes you look pretty stupid IMO.

TwoShedsJackson

blindside88 wrote: »

A lot of old people die in there sleep, I vote we ban old people from sleeping as it's kinder. These horses are bred for jumps races (as flat horses are bred for flat race) you can't just decide that you think they should all be changed to accommodate your narrow view. Irish races horses are amongst the most sought after in the world and there breeding, training and racing make up a massive proportion of the economy

As much as I don't think horse racing should be banned, these 'oh let's ban sleep for old people, that's just as dangerous!!' type comparisons are idiotic.

Sleep is a required activity to continue a person's life - the horse does not have to be raced around a track for it's life to continue.

lividduck

Spread wrote: »

Yes!

No, certainly not!

Optimalprimerib

I am the only one that's going to say it but am 100% confident that I am not the only one who believes it. The risk involved with the high number of horses and fences causing the falls, possible injuries and deaths of those involved adds to the spectacle of the whole thing.

I'm not proud, but that coupled with a few bob on a randomly picked name on the spreadsheet makes it something that I enjoy immensely.

I have stated before that I am saddened with the two deaths today but still would not change a thing.

Caveman1

Banning horse racing is actually a ridiculous suggestion, not to mention all the jobs it creates, taxes it brigs in but have any of you ever seen the facilities where a race horse is kept, they are treated like royalty compared to most other horses who are left tied up in fields then rode up and down a field all day by kids till they're bored.

Also people calling for the fences to be lowered are way off, that would make it more dangerous, the smaller the fence the faster the horse will jump, horses fall and get fatally injured over smaller obstacles and in flat racing. If there was a safer way of running the race I'm sure jockeys and trainers would want that.

Its unfortunate that horses have to be put down but when you consider how many race horses that run each year to the amount that die, I'd say it's a pretty low percentage.

dr.bollocko

robbie1977 wrote: »

I've read alot of stupid things on the internet but this is the worst of the lot.

If this idiot was'nt banned it makes a mockery of the rules on this forum.

I think you'll find a way of somehow picking yourself up and moving on. I am sure this must be a very trying time for you.

Please let us know if counciling is required.

Or, alternatively, accept the fact that I have apologised and keep your personal abuse to yourself or private message.

Its a pity people wouldn't concentrate on the important things that happened in the race rather than talking absoute s**te about banning one of the best sports in existance.

An Irish sportswoman having the highest ever finish for a woman jockey in the national being one major thing that happened. If it was some other sport people would be drooling over it.

dark crystal

Carolina Disgusting Paperback wrote: »

Its a pity people wouldn't concentrate on the important things that happened in the race rather than talking absoute s**te about banning one of the best sports in existance.

An Irish sportswoman having the highest ever finish for a woman jockey in the national being one major thing that happened. If it was some other sport people would be drooling over it.

For many people, the unnecessary death of two horses is the important thing.

Saying that, I thought Katie Walsh did a brilliant job and it was a remarkable achievement for her.

blindside88

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

blindside88 wrote: »

A lot of old people die in there sleep, I vote we ban old people from sleeping as it's kinder. These horses are bred for jumps races (as flat horses are bred for flat race) you can't just decide that you think they should all be changed to accommodate your narrow view. Irish races horses are amongst the most sought after in the world and there breeding, training and racing make up a massive proportion of the economy

As much as I don't think horse racing should be banned, these 'oh let's ban sleep for old people, that's just as dangerous!!' type comparisons are idiotic.

Sleep is a required activity to continue a person's life - the horse does not have to be raced around a track for it's life to continue.

If these horses were not raced around a track they would not enjoy the life they currently have. I know my example was not accurate, I wad being dramatic in the way that a lot of people here are overly dramatic about a horse dying

Juwwi

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I think you'll find a way of somehow picking yourself up and moving on. I am sure this must be a very trying time for you.

Please let us know if counciling is required.

Or, alternatively, accept the fact that I have apologised and keep your personal abuse to yourself or private message.

Or, alternatively,you could keep your stupid jokes about dead race horses to yourself next time.

blindside88

robbie1977 wrote: »

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I think you'll find a way of somehow picking yourself up and moving on. I am sure this must be a very trying time for you.

Please let us know if counciling is required.

Or, alternatively, accept the fact that I have apologised and keep your personal abuse to yourself or private message.

Or, alternatively,you could keep your stupid jokes about dead race horses to yourself next time.

Alright he said it was a joke get over it. If you can't take a joke AH isnt the place for you

dr.bollocko

robbie1977 wrote: »

Or, alternatively,you could keep your stupid jokes about dead race horses to yourself next time.

There's no higher horse to ride in on than a horse that's in heaven.

I had already apologised which you were clearly aware of. You just felt the urge to get a dig in for whatever reason despite that because it's easy to insult others anonymously on the internet even when they've held their hands up.

What would you prefer I do following on from bollocko horse gate?

Will I set aside a time and date I can maybe shackle myself to a wall in the city centre and allow ye all to stone me to death? Or maybe a tattoo on my forehead marking me as unclean?

Or maybe you could accept my apology and instead of being obtuse about it you could move on to the next trifling thing that will doubtless cause you to lose your head and demand bannings and insult people.

Micky Dolenz

I worked with race horses for many years and in that time I rarely saw cruelty. Over use of the whip gets the jockey a nice fine. These animals are very expensive and are treated in the best possible way.

Horses naturally run and when working them they love to get ahead of the pack. It is sometimes very difficult to hold them back in training. Nobody wants to see horses put down and it's never pleasant to return to your yard with an empty spot in the trailer. But like most sports there is an element of risk and
Nothing can be 100% safe.

As a side point, it was worth noting the grey horse's ears as he entered the winners enclosure. They were pricked up. This would be a sign the animal is content and interested in its environment.

Micky Dolenz

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Will I set aside a time and date I can maybe shackle myself to a wall in the city centre and allow ye all to stone me to death?
.

I was nearly stoned to death once, but after some chocolate and a nap I recovered.

Seomra Mushie

Mickeroo wrote: »

I don't think horse racing should be banned in general though, race horses are generally treated very well and genuinely loved by their trainers/riders.

Er, not sure about that, TBH. Horse owners want theirs to win, they don't enter them for nothing. That desire makes me wonder what lengths are gone to to ensure victory. Hmmm.

Juwwi

All I did was give my opinion that I taught what you wrote was stupid and questioned the forum rules if you did'nt receive a ban for the comment.

You did'nt need to reply but again found the need to write more smart a$$
comments suggesting I might need councelling over the dead horses.



Or maybe you could accept my apology and instead of being obtuse about it you could move on to the next trifling thing that will doubtless cause you to lose your head and demand bannings and insult people.

I dont understand that above lose the head demand bannings

There is no point continuing this argument because its pointless as you say you appologised.

Canis Lupus

robbie1977 wrote: »

All I did was give my opinion that I taught what you wrote was stupid and questioned the forum rules if you did'nt receive a ban for the comment.

You did'nt need to reply but again found the need to write more smart a$$
comments suggesting I might need councelling over the dead horses.



Or maybe you could accept my apology and instead of being obtuse about it you could move on to the next trifling thing that will doubtless cause you to lose your head and demand bannings and insult people.

I dont understand that above lose the head demand bannings

There is no point continuing this argument because its pointless as you say you appologised.

Christ.. Build a bridge buddy.

lividduck

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Er, not sure about that, TBH. Horse owners want theirs to win, they don't enter them for nothing. That desire makes me wonder what lengths are gone to to ensure victory. Hmmm.

"We'd have loved to have put him in a glass case and just hugged and kissed him forever but he's a racehorse and this is the race that suits him." Thats what trainer Jonjo O'Neill said about his Gold Cup winning horse Synchronised prior to the Grand National, Synchronized died in the race.
Owners ,trainers, stablehands, and jockeys generally really do care about their horses and would never countenance cruelty.

Seomra Mushie

lividduck wrote: »

"We'd have loved to have put him in a glass case and just hugged and kissed him forever but he's a racehorse and this is the race that suits him." Thats what trainer Jonjo O'Neill said about his Gold Cup winning horse Synchronised prior to the Grand National, Synchronized died in the race.
Owners ,trainers, stablehands, and jockeys generally really do care about their horses and would never countenance cruelty.

Again, I'm not convinced. Talk is cheap. Maybe I'm just too cynical.

calfmuscle

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Again, I'm not convinced. Talk is cheap. Maybe I'm just too cynical.

I'v seen men in their 50's break down in floods of tears over dead horses.
Maybe you should just stop talking about things you have no experience or clue about. Go down to your local yard and do a few days mucking out. Then come back to us and have a chat.

Discodog

calfmuscle wrote: »

I'v seen men in their 50's break down in floods of tears over dead horses.
Maybe you should just stop talking about things you have no experience or clue about. Go down to your local yard and do a few days mucking out. Then come back to us and have a chat.

If the death of a horse is going to make you break down in floods of tears then why subject to so much risk ? One of my dogs would love to chase across a particular field. I stop him because he might hit the barbed wire fence. We have a duty to keep our animals reasonably safe.

I thought that the comments of the RSPCA man, who specialises in Horse Racing were spot on. He admitted that all racing carries an element of risk but the risks in the National are too high.

Risk can be reduced. Formula one went through a period where a lot of drivers died whereas now it is an extreme rarity. The sport still attracts huge crowds & TV coverage - reducing the risk can enhance the sport.

Logical Fallacy

Removing drop jumps, which seem to be the cause of the most throws of jockeys and injuries to the animals would be a good move i reckon.

That said, anybody who has put some time in with horses knows that they are spirited animals and accidents can happen...I agree with the argument that people who race horses are and should be allowed to make their own choices regarding risks but you can also make moves to minimize risks without impacting the sport in any major way.

admiralofthefleet

Princess Peach wrote: »

I believe it should be banned, along with greyhound racing.

Cruelty to animals for sport and gambling pretty much disgusts me.

Sadly is never going to happen though.

ill give you 100/1 that it is banned within 10 years

Mickeroo

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Er, not sure about that, TBH. Horse owners want theirs to win, they don't enter them for nothing. That desire makes me wonder what lengths are gone to to ensure victory. Hmmm.

THere'll always be a few bad eggs, that doesn't mean the majority aren't treated well. At the end of the day a race horse is bred to race.

awec

They should reduce the number of horses running in it. The field is too crowded, once one goes it can bring a few down with it. One of the horses that was put down yesterday was brought down by another horse rather than falling itself.

Seomra Mushie

calfmuscle wrote: »

I'v seen men in their 50's break down in floods of tears over dead horses.
Maybe you should just stop talking about things you have no experience or clue about. Go down to your local yard and do a few days mucking out. Then come back to us and have a chat.

Hmmm, very defensive response. Interesting. Also, where did I say I knew what I said was definitely true? I said I remain cynical. That's all.

Seomra Mushie

Mickeroo wrote: »

At the end of the day a race horse is bred to race.

This is the second comment like this of yours that I don't really get. In an earlier one, you said that it was less cruel as these horses were bred to race, and the bulls were bred for bull fighting. I not really following how that makes it less cruel, especially the bull fighting. The bull doesn't know he's being bred for that purpose and even if he did, he's not going to feel pain any less.

awec

An interesting stat, since 2007:

40 horses have died at Cheltenham.
37 horses have died at Sedgefield.
31 horses have died at Market Rasen.
30 horses have died at Southwell.
28 horses have died at Newton Abbot.
26 horses have died at Aintree.
25 horses have died at Lingfield.
25 horses have died at Worcester.
24 horses have died at Kempton.
23 horses have died at Stratford.
23 horses have died at Wetherby.
21 horses have died at Plumpton.
20 horses have died at Fontwell.
20 horses have died at Hereford.
20 horses have died at Uttoxer.
20 horses have died at Wincanton.


Why does the National kick up so much more of a fuss?

UrbanSea

Read three pages of this thread and gave up.


The worst thing about this time of year is the amount of ignorant people who have no idea about racing see the race, and are up in arms. It's a shame that the one race that the most people see happens to be the one with the most fatalities.



36 horses in 50 years have died in the national. That isn't such a big number.

Ms. Pingui

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

That link from the guardian is horrible inaccurate.

Racehorses revieve vaccinations, therefore are not fit for consumption by any other animal. my own horse has a stamp in her passport saying she is not for human/animal consumption. racehorses will have the same in theirs.

yes they're going to slaughter, but it's due to the fact that there are no homes for them, they are not being slaughtered for 'dog food'

They are only unfit for human consumption.

calfmuscle

Discodog wrote: »

If the death of a horse is going to make you break down in floods of tears then why subject to so much risk ? One of my dogs would love to chase across a particular field. I stop him because he might hit the barbed wire fence. We have a duty to keep our animals reasonably safe.

I thought that the comments of the RSPCA man, who specialises in Horse Racing were spot on. He admitted that all racing carries an element of risk but the risks in the National are too high.

Risk can be reduced. Formula one went through a period where a lot of drivers died whereas now it is an extreme rarity. The sport still attracts huge crowds & TV coverage - reducing the risk can enhance the sport.

I have seen horses jump out of fields and break legs, much to the upset of the owners, stable staff and vets. They where not put at risk they jumped because that's what they do.

cson

Probably been mentioned but the National is run over fences not hurdles.

To be honest, the cruelty crusaders in the thread are taking the wrong line at this; horses good enough to make the National field are generally amongst the best horses in the yard and therefore will be cared for extremely well. If you want to direct your ire at something worthwhile then maybe look at the fate of horses who consistently finish down the field in grade 5 or 6 handicap hurdles around the country.

Anyway, anyone involved in racing knows the dangers. I'd love to see one of the preachy types on here tell Jonjo O'Neill how to care for his horses better.

Seomra Mushie

cson wrote: »

Anyway, anyone involved in racing knows the dangers.

Including the horses? Who briefs them?

grindle

Can't believe this thread is still open. Trying to justify the banning of a sport due to a competitor or two dying... Sickening.

Da Shins Kelly

I think this thread is going round in circles at this stage..

Seomra Mushie

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I think this thread is going round in circles at this stage..

I think it's kinda like foxhunting, it's something there'll never be agreement on. A very polarising topic.

cson

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Including the horses? Who briefs them?

Notwithstanding horses are quite intelligent creatures; I'm not debating whether an animal has cognitive reasoning skills or not with you.

Little bit of perspective darling; the incumbent Syrian Government has slaughtered around 9,000 people (actual human beings) and you're getting your knickers in a twist over 2 horses?

awec

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

I think it's kinda like foxhunting, it's something there'll never be agreement on. A very polarising topic.

No it isn't. It's nothing like fox hunting.

Micky Dolenz

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I think this thread is going round in circles at this stage..

Like a track?

Seomra Mushie

cson wrote: »

Little bit of perspective darling; the incumbent Syrian Government has slaughtered around 9,000 people (actual human beings) and you're getting your knickers in a twist over 2 horses?

Employing patronising terms-of-endearment, a sign of a nerve hit if ever there was one.

kfallon

Horses die galloping at home. Rewilding died in a 6 runner flat race last July. I just knew logging on here today there would be a thread about the GN, will the OP start a thread every time a horse dies when racing or is he just being fashionable cos he watched a race yesterday and it'll be the only race he watches all year?

Would you rather racing be banned and never have these horses to love cos without racing these horses would never be born. Better to have loved and lost....

And RIP Synchronised, you did me a couple of good favours Gone but never forgotten

Seomra Mushie

awec wrote: »

No it isn't. It's nothing like fox hunting.

No, you misunderstand, I just mean in terms of people not agreeing on the topic. I'm not saying the actual sport is like foxhunting. JAYsus.

Discodog

calfmuscle wrote: »

I have seen horses jump out of fields and break legs, much to the upset of the owners, stable staff and vets. They where not put at risk they jumped because that's what they do.

I agree but, even in the stables & yards you minimise the risk of injury. For example you would remove anything sharp from inside the stables.

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

ill give you 100/1 that it is banned within 10 years

There is no possibility of horse racing being banned in Ireland - not in 100 years. Greyhound racing won't be banned but it may slowly die out. We are about 30 years behind the UK & much of Europe regarding animal welfare.

kfallon

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Like a track?

Not all tracks are circular, if you knew one iota about racing you'd know this :rolleyes:

Discodog

One similarity between the racing & hunting arguments is that people suggest that only "experts" are entitled to an opinion. The Hunting crowd say that "townies" should mind their own business & the racing fraternity say that you shouldn't have an opinion unless you attend lots of races.

The welfare of animals is a national concern & everyone is entitled to a say.

Mickeroo

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

This is the second comment like this of yours that I don't really get. In an earlier one, you said that it was less cruel as these horses were bred to race, and the bulls were bred for bull fighting. I not really following how that makes it less cruel, especially the bull fighting. The bull doesn't know he's being bred for that purpose and even if he did, he's not going to feel pain any less.

My own moral viewpoint is that horse racing should be made safer and bull fighting should be banned as its extremely cruel towards the animal.

In that previous post I was merely pointing out the complexitiy of the issue as neither race horses nor fighting bulls would even exist if it was not for their respective sports, they were bred for a specific purpose, without that purpose they lose their function/usefulness. Is it really cruel to use an animal for the purpose it was made? Its not something I claim to have a definitive answer on tbh.

The same argument can be made for dairy cows, animals bred for their meat etc.

Micky Dolenz

kfallon wrote: »

Not all tracks are circular, if you knew one iota about racing you'd know this :rolleyes:

But some are by your reasoning.

So what's your point?

Seomra Mushie

Mickeroo wrote: »

My own moral viewpoint is that horse racing should be made safer and bull fighting should be banned as its extremely cruel towards the animal.

In that previous post I was merely pointing out the complexitiy of the issue as neither race horses nor fighting bulls would even exist if it was not for their respective sports, they were bred for a specific purpose, without that purpose they lose their function/usefulness. Is it really cruel to use an animal for the purpose it was made? Its not something I claim to have a definitive answer on tbh.

The same argument can be made for dairy cows, animals bred for their meat etc.

It's doesn't really matter why they came into existence, for the bull the experience would still be the same. In cases like this, you have to decide if the endpoint is worth the animal's life. Providing nutrition is a good enough reason, IMO, especially as in many countries, suffering is reduced to a minimum. Ditto, animal testing for medical products, as long as suffering is reduced to a minimum. Raising an animal to kill it slowly and painfully for the amusement of humans? No, just no. I'd feel the same to a lesser extent about horse-racing. It's an interesting philosophical topic.

El Horseboxo

I don't watch horse racing but i hear of the stories of horses that broke legs having to be put down. Just wondering are there many horses put down due to injuries in flat racing compared to the hurdles? Is it a rare thing in the flats?

kfallon

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But some are by your reasoning.

So what's your point?

My point is you're talking thru your hole, as usual!