Should horse racing be banned?

later12

Discodog wrote: »

One similarity between the racing & hunting arguments is that people suggest that only "experts" are entitled to an opinion. The Hunting crowd say that "townies" should mind their own business & the racing fraternity say that you shouldn't have an opinion unless you attend lots of races.

The welfare of animals is a national concern & everyone is entitled to a say.

...For one weekend in April, it seems.

I don't think it's fair to 'exclude' people who are not acquainted with equestrian sports, I think that's a bit inflammatory and unhelpful.

However, there is a credibility issue in question when people attach human emotions to horses and respond with outrage at the notion that a horse might enjoy hunting.
Sorry but if you've never sat on top of an animal with his ears pricked and his head up following a herd of horses over natural countryside, or bolting past you to get out of a trailer on the way to a meet, then you're not really in a position to respond with outrage at the idea that they don't often enjoy this stuff.

I think it's a pity that people of no familiarity with horses would reject an awareness of horses' temperaments by their riders, grooms or trainers.

I think that's as lacking in credibility as someone who has no familiarity with dogs denying that their owners can tell if they're nervous, excited or relaxed

kfallon

El Horseboxo wrote: »

I don't watch horse racing but i hear of the stories of horses that broke legs having to be put down. Just wondering are there many horses put down due to injuries in flat racing compared to the hurdles? Is it a rare thing in the flats?

unfortunately it does happen in flat racing but it also happens 'at home' where a horse might just be running around a field and might break a leg.

It's heartbreaking for the people involved. Just think about the lad or girl who looked after Synchronised every day, they will have been heartbroken today. Tony McCoy gave up his last ride yesterday because he was distraught. Jonjo and JP would also have been in the same boat.

lividduck

kfallon wrote: »

My point is you're talking thru your hole, as usual!

`Jaysus thats a bit ott

Super-Rush

kfallon wrote: »

My point is you're talking thru your hole, as usual!

Keep your personal grievances out of this thread please.

argosy2006

If you were to ban horse racing today then 1000's and 1000's of horse races around the world would be killed tomorrow, They would have no purpose,
Now who wants to kill 1000's of race horses,
No one,

More people died yesterday in car accidents that horses died racing,
So lets ban driving,

No one likes to see horses die, But it happens ,sadly

Fences are two high, and two many, eliminate 5 fences lower rest, make trip 4 m,

Brook needs to be level on other side, Not tricking a horse into jumping a fence that is much deeper on other side, Jumping into a hole!
Why?

Seomra Mushie

later12 wrote: »

...
However, there is a credibility issue in question when people attach human emotions to horses and respond with outrage at the notion that a horse might enjoy hunting.

My dislike of foxhunting is do with the fox's experience not the horse's. I assumed many people were the same?

4zn76tysfajdxp

argosy2006 wrote: »

If you were to ban horse racing today then 1000's and 1000's of horse races around the world would be killed tomorrow, They would have no purpose,
Now who wants to kill 1000's of race horses

dr.bollocko. :mad:

colinslade

El Horseboxo wrote: »

I don't watch horse racing but i hear of the stories of horses that broke legs having to be put down. Just wondering are there many horses put down due to injuries in flat racing compared to the hurdles? Is it a rare thing in the flats?

Think fig is about 2.5-3 per 1000 for jumps an 1 per 1000 for flat. V SA to see these racehorses dying but these racehorses are better treated than almost any animal you can think of. Plenty horses die in wild too from hunger and similar falls etc.

Discodog

argosy2006 wrote: »

If you were to ban horse racing today then 1000's and 1000's of horse races around the world would be killed tomorrow, They would have no purpose,
Now who wants to kill 1000's of race horses,
No one,

I don't support a ban but your argument is seriously flawed. Yes thousands might be killed but it would prevent the deaths of thousands more during the following years. You may not of seen it earlier in the thread but over 4000 unwanted Thoroughbred horses were killed in Ireland in 2010 alone.

The basic problem with any animal that is bred for a human purpose like "entertainment" is that it becomes disposable once it no longer serves the purpose. Many people would be horrified if we got rid of our dog because we fancied a different breed. But this is acceptable to the equine fraternity. People claim the love for their pony until they need a bigger one then they are happy to replace it.

I would have far less of a problem with horse & greyhound racing if the owners were committed to caring for the animals for the duration of their natural lives.

colinslade

argosy2006 wrote: »

If you were to ban horse racing today then 1000's and 1000's of horse races around the world would be killed tomorrow, They would have no purpose,
Now who wants to kill 1000's of race horses,
No one,

More people died yesterday in car accidents that horses died racing,
So lets ban driving,

No one likes to see horses die, But it happens ,sadly

Fences are two high, and two many, eliminate 5 fences lower rest, make trip 4 m,

Brook needs to be level on other side, Not tricking a horse into jumping a fence that is much deeper on other side, Jumping into a hole!
Why?

Think a lot of problem is they have lowered many fences allowing the horses to jump them much quicker. Slightly higher and will slow th pace of the race a lot. No of fatalities in the GN massively reduced from a decade ago

kfallon

13,000+ posts from the OP and not one has been posted in the Horse Racing forum, surprise surprise :rolleyes:

Seomra Mushie

kfallon wrote: »

13,000+ posts from the OP and not one has been posted in the Horse Racing forum, surprise surprise :rolleyes:

Surely an outside view from time to time is no bad thing? Plus, some people don't agree with animals being used in sports full stop. You don't need to be involved in the sports to know your stance on this.

Micky Dolenz

kfallon wrote: »

My point is you're talking thru your hole, as usual!

Quite the debater aren't you. Clever and articulate

kfallon

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Quite the debater aren't you. Clever and articulate

Why would I debate horse racing with somebody who hasn't a clue?

You wouldn't know what end shites and what end bites :rolleyes:

kfallon

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Surely an outside view from time to time is no bad thing? Plus, some people don't agree with animals being used in sports full stop. You don't need to be involved in the sports to know your stance on this.

So will the OP be updating this thread each day with thorouhbreds who have passed away? I doubt it.

We lost a great sire in Montjeu a few weeks ago due to complications with an illness, I don't remember a thread by the OP about that.

lividduck

kfallon wrote: »

Why would I debate horse racing with somebody who hasn't a clue?

You wouldn't know what end shites and what end bites :rolleyes:

wtf is your problem

Kiera

lividduck wrote: »

kfallon wrote: »

Why would I debate horse racing with somebody who hasn't a clue?

You wouldn't know what end shites and what end bites :rolleyes:

wtf is your problem

Why are you getting involved?

Huntley

There is a far bigger claim for the Cross Country race at Cheltenham to be pulled. That resulted in just as many deaths as the National did this year but we didn't see half as much venom from the media over that race.

That race has minimal positives for the industry and the course it is run on is like concrete. There would be no knock on effects on the economy if it was cancelled, in contrast to the National, and it is simply just a filler race with horses who have lost their way with the game.

I would guess that less than 5% of the people who have posted here even know what I am talking about, which only highlights the control that the media has.

Seomra Mushie

kfallon wrote: »

So will the OP be updating this thread each day with thorouhbreds who have passed away? I doubt it.

We lost a great sire in Montjeu a few weeks ago due to complications with an illness, I don't remember a thread by the OP about that.

Illnesses are unfortunate but they happen, how irrelevant!

lividduck

Kiera wrote: »

Why are you getting involved?

Who are you to ask?:p

Seomra Mushie

Kiera wrote: »

Why are you getting involved?

It's a thread, people are discussing, and that poster is being highly pugnacious. Why shouldn't he be pulled up on it?

kildare.17hmr

kfallon wrote: »

So will the OP be updating this thread each day with thorouhbreds who have passed away? I doubt it.

We lost a great sire in Montjeu a few weeks ago due to complications with an illness, I don't remember a thread by the OP about that.

does it matter? Everyone is entitled to an opinion!

I wouldnt support a ban at all, working animals love their jobs. The animal rights crowed really are a dumb bunch of twats, ban hunting and horse racing and see more and more unwanted animals being put down or abandend

Super-Rush

kfallon wrote: »

Why would I debate horse racing with somebody who hasn't a clue?

You wouldn't know what end shites and what end bites :rolleyes:

No you'd rather troll instead.

Quit it now or you'll be banned.

kfallon

lividduck wrote: »

wtf is your problem

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Illnesses are unfortunate but they happen, how irrelevant!

OP watches Grand National, 2 horses die, he is 'outraged'.

A horse may die at Ayr next Friday, OP won't care, doubt he'll even know about it :rolleyes:

later12

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

My dislike of foxhunting is do with the fox's experience not the horse's. I assumed many people were the same?

My point in referencing hunting was not in response to anything you had said, I'm merely pointing out the way that horses often appear to enjoy their time on the track as they do over the hunting field as something which may not be picked up on by people who have never had an association with these pursuits.

UrbanSea

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Surely an outside view from time to time is no bad thing? Plus, some people don't agree with animals being used in sports full stop. You don't need to be involved in the sports to know your stance on this.

This just leads to a stream of ignorant and incorrect facts, this thread is rife with them. It does nothing but tint the truth and further mislead those people who know nothing about racing, but have their once a year rant mid April.

kfallon

Super-Rush wrote: »

No you'd rather troll instead.

Quit it now or you'll be banned.

How am I trolling? More like the OP is tbh

And why wasn't this moved to the horse racing forum?

UrbanSea

I wonder does any of the sudden horse racing enthusiasts here know about the jockey that was airlifted to hospital at Ffos Las today?

That warrants more of a thread than the death of two horses.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

kfallon

UrbanSea wrote: »

I wonder does any of the sudden horse racing enthusiasts here know about the jockey that was airlifted to hospital at Ffos Las today?

That warrants more of a thread than the death of two horses.

Thank God it looks like Nathan Cook is ok

UrbanSea

kfallon wrote: »

Thank God it looks like Nathan Cook is ok

I saw the fall, he got a good kick. Was knocked out for two minutes, he was airlifted just as a precaution, he's going for an MRI but he was talking and moving.

Discodog

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

The animal rights crowed really are a dumb bunch of twats, ban hunting and horse racing and see more and more unwanted animals being put down or abandend

Nice of you to differentiate between animal rights & animal welfare. For one brief moment I thought you were taking the opportunity presented by AH, rather than our usual API, to call me a dumb twat .

Racing will never be banned but if hunting were I am sure that the wonderful hunting folk would continue to look after their horses & hounds until the end of their natural lives. Or would they just call you in to shoot them :rolleyes: ?

xzanti

zerks wrote: »

Lets ban all sports on health & safety grounds:rolleyes:.I hate to be callous but they are only horses.When an animal dies we get all the animal rights loons coming out of the woodwork.

A footballer in Italy died today from a heart attack while playing for Livorno,should we ban football?

Yeah, sure fcuk them, horses don't feel pain.. what's a broken neck or two when there's money at stake.

DB10

A lot of disgusting posts in this thread tbh. The horses welfare is most important, its seems alot of the degenerates you see in the bookies hoping horses fall have arrived online after their big gamble yesterday.

I find it hard to see how anyone can support this animal cruelty sport, they certainly only care about their bets or their job if they are involved with horses.

UrbanSea

xzanti wrote: »

Yeah, sure fcuk them, horses don't feel pain.. what's a broken neck or two when there's money at stake.

I'm sure he meant that they're only horses i.e they aren't people. Some people in these arguments put forward stupid hypothetical situations such as ''if two humans died yesterday it'd be cancelled.''

This is where some clearly dim people need to re-evaluate their opinions. Of course a sport would be banned should there be a high number of human casualties, though animals aren't held in the same regard, rightly so, and that's not to say I don't care about animals.

UrbanSea

DB10 wrote: »

A lot of disgusting posts in this thread tbh. The horses welfare is most important, its seems alot of the degenerates you see in the bookies hoping horses fall have arrived online after their big gamble yesterday.

I find it hard to see how anyone can support this animal cruelty sport, they certainly only care about their bets or their job if they are involved with horses.

Please don't apply your ignorance to everyone. Go into Jonjo O'Neill's yard today and ask the stable workers do they care that Synchronized died because they still have a job due to the other horses in the yard. The stable jockey even sat out his ride (favourite in a Grade 2 race) because he was distraught.

Seomra Mushie

later12 wrote: »

My point in referencing hunting was not in response to anything you had said, I'm merely pointing out the way that horses often appear to enjoy their time on the track as they do over the hunting field as something which may not be picked up on by people who have never had an association with these pursuits.

I know horses are naturally competitive animals, but that doesn't mean they should be put in dangerous situations or put under too much strain.

UrbanSea wrote: »

I wonder does any of the sudden horse racing enthusiasts here know about the jockey that was airlifted to hospital at Ffos Las today?

That warrants more of a thread than the death of two horses.

Again, the jockey CHOOSES to be involved in the sport.

Micky Dolenz

kfallon wrote: »

Why would I debate horse racing with somebody who hasn't a clue?

You wouldn't know what end shites and what end bites :rolleyes:

What do you base that on?

kfallon

xzanti wrote: »

Yeah, sure fcuk them, horses don't feel pain.. what's a broken neck or two when there's money at stake.

Why do you think that everyone who likes horse racing is only in it for the money?

But I agree with the first part of your post, these horses mean so much to so many people, they are not 'just' horses. As I said before there is a lad or lass who looked after Synchronised every day of his life who is heartbroken today, JP McManus and Jonjo will be feeling the same. I don't see people calling for F1 to be banned even tho we have lost people due to crashes in that sport.

DB10

UrbanSea wrote: »

Please don't apply your ignorance to everyone. Go into Jonjo O'Neill's yard today and ask the stable workers do they care that Synchronized died because they still have a job due to the other horses in the yard. The stable jockey even sat out his ride (favourite in a Grade 2 race) because he was distraught.

As long as they get their pay cheque I'm sure they'll be grand.

Sure didn't one of the stable jockeys earn 2 million pounds last week on a bet. I'd say he cares right now alright.

It's a disgrace the money involved and nobody cares about the horses.

UrbanSea

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

Again, the jockey CHOOSES to be involved in the sport.

This is another ignorant argument.

If a horse does not want to run, it will not run. Look at King John's Castle in the National. Sariska used to stand in the stalls. Look up a filly named Memory. The list is endless.

Seomra Mushie

UrbanSea wrote: »

This is another ignorant argument.

If a horse does not want to run, it will not run. Look at King John's Castle in the National. Sariska used to stand in the stalls. Look up a filly named Memory. The list is endless.

You'd want to stop calling people who disagree with you ignorant. :rolleyes:

UrbanSea

DB10 wrote: »

As long as they get their pay cheque I'm sure they'll be grand.

Sure didn't one of the stable jockeys earn 2 million pounds last week on a bet. I'd say he cares right now alright.

It's a disgrace the money involved and nobody cares about the horses.

You have not got a clue. That's the same stable lad who went to work the morning after to look after the horse he minds.

To assume that all stable workers only care about their cheque is one of the most idiotic things I've possibly ever read. The horses are like family to them.

Go to any stable actually and just get a tour around. You'll see how much they care.

Judging by your posts I'm guessing you've never stepped foot into a yard.

UrbanSea

Seomra Mushie wrote: »

You'd want to stop calling people who disagree with you ignorant. :rolleyes:

Your comment was ignorant. Do you dispute that?

DB10

UrbanSea wrote: »

This is another ignorant argument.

If a horse does not want to run, it will not run. Look at King John's Castle in the National. Sariska used to stand in the stalls. Look up a filly named Memory. The list is endless.

Synchronise didnt want to run yesterday. It was clear from the start, he delayed the race by 10 minutes because he didn't want to run.

Yet he was forced to because so many people had money bet on him. And now hes dead. There needs to be a thorough investigation into these circumstances.

He was never upto this race so soon after the Gold Cup.

The Snipe

http://slanchreport.com/2009/10/26/lightning-strikes-cause-disaster-on-african-soccer-fields/

Lets ban soccer!

My name is URL

kfallon wrote: »

OP watches Grand National, 2 horses die, he is 'outraged'.

A horse may die at Ayr next Friday, OP won't care, doubt he'll even know about it :rolleyes:

What makes you think I won't care? Maybe I won't know about it, but I know about what happened yesterday, and I decided to start a thread about it. Get the fcuk over it, and yourself.

UrbanSea

DB10 wrote: »

Synchronise didnt want to run yesterday. It was clear from the start, he dalyed the race by 10 minutes because he didn't want to run.

Yet he was forced to because so many people had money bet on him. And now hes dead. There needs to be a thorough investigation into these circumstances.

He was never upto this race so soon after the Gold Cup.

Horses can often get excited before a race. This doesn't mean they don't want to run. If he didn't want to run, he would have either stood at the start or refused at some of the fences.

Synchronized ran and jumped fences even after McCoy had come off him. Doesn't strike me as a horse who doesn't want to go.

The day before a horse called Finian's Rainbow did something similar, in fact he crashed through one of the rails. He went on to win the race. There is a difference between a horse being excited prior to a race and a horse not wanting to race.

Duggys Housemate

This is really a debate with urban animal lovers. A love which basically means knowing only about dogs and cats, and the reality of the countryside, of foxes and horses, are lost to them.

I am not a horse person. But I do know horsy people and to a woman(generally it is women) they ride horses. They don't always hunt but they often as not jump. Some night think the grand national too severe but horse lovers follow racing. And these people live and breathe horses.

Horses used to be urban creatures as much as rural. They followed humans to cities, but have been replaced by cars. Their wild environment is the Asian steppe. The only reason why they exist anymore in Western Europe is racing, a hangover from their days as useful creatures. They can't run free, we have no space. Ban racing and you will largely exterminate horses, certainly the line of pedigree horses. The alternative is largely extinction.

Micky Dolenz

DB10 wrote: »

As long as they get their pay cheque I'm sure they'll be grand.

Sure didn't one of the stable jockeys earn 2 million pounds last week on a bet. I'd say he cares right now alright.

It's a disgrace the money involved and nobody cares about the horses.

That's not true. The money made by the bulk if people working in the industry is poor and the hours are long with the work being very hard.

Most people will have got into it through their love of horses.