Can I legally keep money off shore?

tea_bagz

Say for example I am Irish, and living here. I have accumulated a nice bit of savings, for argument sake, we'll say 50K.
I would be DEATHLY afraid of marriage, because most marriages are ending in divorce, (or atleast the figure is climbing).
The Law in only 1% of cases will give the man the house in divorce, and in 99% of cases is handed over to the woman. So what I am hypothesising is :

Keep my money in a foreign bank in MY name.

Every time my wages are paid, only keep 10% in Ireland, and 90% in foreign bank, we'll say, Barclays in Newry or London.

If I have a house BEFORE I marry, and its fully mine and paid for and I can prive this was paid for before marriage.

Reason I ask this is most girls are golddiggers (or so it seems that way) and I dont want my proverbial wife divorcing me, and getting a single penny that she didn't earn. Marriage scares the hell outa me for this reason

So my question, can I do that and would the Irish judges have to power to make an order on a foreign bank account?

If I prove that I had the house paid for MYSELF in my name and wife did not contribute ANYTHING it is sheer lunacy that she shoudl get half of the assests I bought myself. Prenups are not recognised in Ireland :mad:

Am I the only person who has this in the back of his mind when contemplating marriage? I am a 22 year old guy btw.

CIARAN_BOYLE

The courts would consider offshore assets when making orders. If you are scared of marriage don't marry. It doesn't matter if you owned a house before the marriage once you marry she has a share in it. If you worry that the girl is golddigger then don't marry her maybe marry a women in a similar financial position to yourself.

ResearchWill

Just easier not to marry if you think like that.

coylemj

Doesn't a cohabiting partner acquire property rights under recent legislation i.e. does it really matter these days if you're married or not?

ResearchWill

coylemj wrote: »

Doesn't a cohabiting partner acquire property rights under recent legislation i.e. does it really matter these days if you're married or not?

You can contract out of that provision.

krd

ResearchWill wrote: »

Just easier not to marry if you think like that.

Come on.

Please play the devils advocate.

What's the best way to keep cash and property out of the hands of a spouse if things turn pear shaped?

Splits can be very very very nasty, and people can be very vindictive.

In the event of a marriage breakdown, if there are no children involved, does the spouse have a real, or even automatic, claim on the assets of the other?

On marriage, do all assets owned by either party automatically become 50% owned by the other party? Or is this for a judge to decide?

Is there anything he can do? Like create a charity, registered in Croatia, that does nothing, and put the money in an account in the name of the charity - and then dip for cash for "administrative purposes"?

ResearchWill

krd wrote: »

Come on.

Please play the devils advocate.

What's the best way to keep cash and property out of the hands of a spouse if things turn pear shaped?

Splits can be very very very nasty, and people can be very vindictive.

In the event of a marriage breakdown, if there are no children involved, does the spouse have a real, or even automatic, claim on the assets of the other?

On marriage, do all assets owned by either party automatically become 50% owned by the other party? Or is this for a judge to decide?

Is there anything he can do? Like create a charity, registered in Croatia, that does nothing, and put the money in an account in the name of the charity - and then dip for cash for "administrative purposes"?

OK playing devils advocate, if a person marries and then splits, during the judicial separation and divorce each party must file affidavits of means in that document a person swears under oath, they set out all their assets and liabilities no matter where, if a person wants to hide assets they can do it inside or outside Ireland but if they lie on affidavit and are found out then things could go worse. I know tha a certain DJ wanted a file to go to the DPP in one case.

Also if a person marries today and splits up in say a year and the guy owned the house before marriage then unless there are children the spouse will more than likely not get the house.

In relation to assets no it is not 50/50 on marriage. A good example is say pension funds the usual rule is 20 years of marriage for a 50% share in a pension, or 2.5% per year to max of 50%. If a guy worth say 3 million married a girl and they split up 2 years later then it will cost him depending on their life style etc but not half of his property. But say they are together for 20 years then it may cost Hume 50%. If there are children then things get more complicated.

But seriously if you think this way then really don't get married.

krd

ResearchWill wrote: »

if a person wants to hide assets they can do it inside or outside Ireland

If, the asset is "resting" (as Fr. Ted would say) in a Croatian charity - or some other form of off-shore trust, is it technically hidden if not declared....The reason I'm saying this, is I've heard recently about the problem in England. Rich people are setting up "charities" in places like Croatia. They're funnelling money into these charities and avoiding tax. The English revenue, recognises off-shore charities as being charities, but since they're in another jurisdiction, has no oversight, to see whether charities are genuine or just vehicles for tax avoidance. So, theoretically, the funds in these charities, are funds belonging to the charities. In reality, the donors/directors, have full use and control of the funds.

but if they lie on affidavit and are found out then things could go worse.

That is true. And not the thing to do. Though I do know of a few instances, where spouses got up in court and lied like troopers.

Also if a person marries today and splits up in say a year and the guy owned the house before marriage then unless there are children the spouse will more than likely not get the house.

But that is for a judge to decide? These cases are heard in camera? Can either party refuse to have the case heard in camera? I have heard of these things going pear shaped - I wonder is that less likely if the case is not heard in camera. I have heard of bizarre things happening in camera. Things that were more about vexatiousness than assets.

In relation to assets no it is not 50/50 on marriage. A good example is say pension funds the usual rule is 20 years of marriage for a 50% share in a pension, or 2.5% per year to max of 50%.

2.5% does not sound like much, but it's 10% after 4 years. When does the meter (in sense of a Taxi) stop running?

Can a spouse make a claim on potential inheritance?....If a spouse's parent is wealthy, and they may be due and inheritance, does the other spouse have any claim to that inheritance?

If a guy worth say 3 million married a girl and they split up 2 years later then it will cost him depending on their life style etc but not half of his property. But say they are together for 20 years then it may cost Hume 50%. If there are children then things get more complicated.

They 50% rule they have in California. We don't really have anything like that here, do we?

What is the best way to fight a messy divorce?

Marcusm

Traditionally, the alienation of the property by vesting it in a trust would be the means to protect assets in circumstances such as yours. However, it's ony truly effective where the assets are controlled by a third party and there are potential beneficiaries other than you. Additionally, these are generally suitable for people or families with capital or accumulated wealth. Also there are oe off and recurring tax costs.

In your circumstances, you would simply be better not marrying. It will be interesting to see the evolution in pre nuptial agreements. They are not binding, however, some recent UK case law on divorce has begun to accord significant weight to them where the circumstances suit (generally where there is significant wealth, adequate provision is made for the "poorer" spouse and where no contribution has been made to the accumulation of wealth).

d4head77

In answer to the original question, yes, it is legal to keep money anywhere you want. However, should you keep money where the Revenue Commissioners can't see it, e.g. the Isle of Man, you are legally obliged to declare it here on your tax return, so that they can calculate whether or not you should be paying tax on any interest earned.

Failure to disclose foreign earnings - be it bank interest or any income from, say, sale of assets in another country or share income, is viewed by the Revenue Commisioners as a very serious offence, and they will pursue it. So, by all means put money in Timbuktu, but tell the Rev about it.

The issue of keeping assets away from an "ex" is different. As you say, break-ups can be exceptionally nasty, and both parties might be hell bent on getting a share of what each other has. If a court wants info on what you have, it is illegal to conceal it, even if it is perfectly legal to have put it wherever it is.

fasttalkerchat

Buy a fireproof safe and put it in your parents' attic. Take small irregular withdrawals from your accounts and move it to the safe.

fasttalkerchat

You could sell your house to a friend for a small amount then buy it back for a huge amount. He then gives you back the money but you would have to pay tax.
I don't know of a way to do something similar but without tax.

krd

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

You could sell your house to a friend for a small amount then buy it back for a huge amount. He then gives you back the money but you would have to pay tax.
I don't know of a way to do something similar but without tax.

Or you could donate your house - to a charitable trust in Croatia.

That way, you could still live in the house, and you'd be helping charity

blueythebear

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

You could sell your house to a friend for a small amount then buy it back for a huge amount. He then gives you back the money but you would have to pay tax.
I don't know of a way to do something similar but without tax.

I really don't understand this suggestion?

To the OP, it really is as simple as not getting married. When a couple get divorced in Ireland, one spouse does not automatically get 50% of the other's assets/wealth. If an agreement cannot be reached, the judge will decide on who gets what and will take into account many factors. There are too many variables to give an explanation here.

As has already been said, there is no problem with keeping money offshore as long as it's all declared to the Revenue. If family law proceedings do come down the line, you will be required to give a full and honest account of all assets you own and this will have to go on affidavit. Lying on affidavit is a criminal offence.

fasttalkerchat

blueythebear wrote: »

I really don't understand this suggestion?

To the OP, it really is as simple as not getting married. When a couple get divorced in Ireland, one spouse does not automatically get 50% of the other's assets/wealth. If an agreement cannot be reached, the judge will decide on who gets what and will take into account many factors. There are too many variables to give an explanation here.

This way he has money hidden and no one other than his helpful friend knows how much. Its a good way to have up to 100k cash in a safe somewhere.

blueythebear

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

This way he has money hidden and no one other than his helpful friend knows how much. Its a good way to have up to 100k cash in a safe somewhere.

There are so many problems with this...

i) you're wasting significant sums on conveyancing fees and stamp duty and other costs associated with buying / selling property.
ii)Why would the friend not just keep the house? He just got a cheap house!
iii) why would the friend give the purchase money back?
iv) Still have to put all assets on affidavit and omitting anything could be a criminal offence.

If he really wishes to hide money, taking out small sums regularly and putting them into a safe would be a much better and cheaper idea although I really don't see the need. Just don't get married!

gustafo

ohh my dear budha your 22 ffs why would you be thinking like this? go live a bit and enjoy what will happen will happen or else you will end up a sad lonely man.

ffs give me strength listening to this crap.

fasttalkerchat

blueythebear wrote: »

If he really wishes to hide money, taking out small sums regularly and putting them into a safe would be a much better and cheaper idea although I really don't see the need. Just don't get married!

This was my main suggestion. The one about the house was for urgently hiding money. Losing tax and stamp duty is better than 50%. Obviously you would need to trust your friend.

jimmycrackcorm

I don't know why posters are trying to focus on the tax issues and "hiding from the revenue" as that is not the ops question. As for the courts, perhaps the courts may be able to make orders on assets within the EU, but outside that it's questionable.

The obvious problem is with normal assets such as a home. I suspect that the reality is that, in a divorce situation, what will be in dispute is what both parties are aware of...

So if the other half isn't aware of hidden assets, then they won't normally come into question.

fasttalkerchat

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I don't know why posters are trying to focus on the tax issues and "hiding from the revenue" as that is not the ops question. As for the courts, perhaps the courts may be able to make orders on assets within the EU, but outside that it's questionable.

The obvious problem is with normal assets such as a home. I suspect that the reality is that, in a divorce situation, what will be in dispute is what both parties are aware of...

So if the other half isn't aware of hidden assets, then they won't normally come into question.

I think that you have to declare everything you have. So you would need to hide them in a way that not even the revenue can find them.

blueythebear

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I think that you have to declare everything you have. So you would need to hide them in a way that not even the revenue can find them.

It's not Revenue you're hiding money from! If you're married to someone, it's quite conceivable that they would discover the €100,000 in used fivers you hide in the mattress. If you subsequently break up, he or she know about this money and when they notice that it is not declared in your affidavit of means, this will be brought to the attention of the court. The whole thing is ridiculous.

If, before you're even married, you're thinking about hiding money from your spouse so he/she cannot get their hands on it in the unlikely event that you break up, you should be reconsidering going into any marriage at all to be honest.

MagicSean

There are only two ways. Lie about them or give them to someone else. Neither are good ideas and have potentially severe consequences.

NewApproach

Why does the wife get the house? Is that not a bit sexist?

Victor

tea_bagz wrote: »

contemplating marriage? I am a 22 year old guy btw.

Just go for an annulment on grounds of insanity. :pac:

krd wrote: »

What's the best way to keep cash and property out of the hands of a spouse if things turn pear shaped?

Negative equity.

krd wrote: »

Can a spouse make a claim on potential inheritance?....If a spouse's parent is wealthy, and they may be due and inheritance, does the other spouse have any claim to that inheritance?

What. what if the parent(s)/donor(s) spend all the money before death?

NewApproach wrote: »

Why does the wife get the house? Is that not a bit sexist?

Not quite, "the wife get the house" is an Americanism. Here, divorce has a principle of proper provision for both parties.