joint ail

1chippy

have a calf pretty bad with joint ail at the moment. we use iodine but must have missed this one.
we treated him for a week with betamox and an antiflamatory.
worked for a few days and then his leg swoll up again.
we then treated him with linco specton for a week and an anti inflamatory (2 shot over 3 days)
seemed grand for over a week and then went out this morning and the same again.
vet said that he was goosed so brought him to another vet. this one lanced the joint to try and clear any bile he thought may be laying. no bile so bandaged it. put him on more meds and said it would be 50 50 whether hed make it. anyone any help on this matter. hes a pbnr limo bull calf that seems to be thriving even with this problem. really would like to try all options before putting him down.

greysides

Treat for longer than a week.

snowman707

Noroclav for long term

can't understand the vet lancing the joint without firstly inserting a sterile needle to check for puss

greysides

The swollen joint is often due to the joint membrane being swollen with fluid and having thickened with inflammatory cells- there being little or no extra fluid there. In a bad case the adjoining bone ends may be swollen and infected too. In other words, once progressed beyond a certain point there may be no chance of it looking normal again.

razor8

use Noroclav & Betamox together, should see a big improvement after a week

Richk2012

1chippy wrote: »

have a calf pretty bad with joint ail at the moment. we use iodine but must have missed this one.
we treated him for a week with betamox and an antiflamatory.
worked for a few days and then his leg swoll up again.
we then treated him with linco specton for a week and an anti inflamatory (2 shot over 3 days)
seemed grand for over a week and then went out this morning and the same again.
vet said that he was goosed so brought him to another vet. this one lanced the joint to try and clear any bile he thought may be laying. no bile so bandaged it. put him on more meds and said it would be 50 50 whether hed make it. anyone any help on this matter. hes a pbnr limo bull calf that seems to be thriving even with this problem. really would like to try all options before putting him down.

Get a basin and fill it with hot water (not warm) .and mix epsom salts . Bathe the swollen joint in it twice daily. It takes down the swelling and keep him on antibiotics .

LostCovey

razor8 wrote: »

use Noroclav & Betamox together, should see a big improvement after a week

Hi Razor8,

What is the benfit in using two different products containing precisely the same penicillin-derived drug (amoxyillin) on this unfortunate animal? Is there any advantage? Surely you are just giving the animal a double-dose of amoxycillin to no effect other than wasting money and prolonging the withdrawal period.

I don't mean to be provocative in questioning your recommendation - it just seems like a very strange recommendation to make.

If there's a reason, and maybe there is, I would love to hear it.

I also think your optimism and assurances that a double-dose of antibiotic will clear a joint infection in a week may be a bit misplaced.

LostCovey

Tipp Man

Do they ever get out of it properly?

for our experience even if an animal appears to be cured it just comes back again.

Kovu

Richk2012 wrote: »

Get a basin and fill it with hot water (not warm) .and mix epsom salts . Bathe the swollen joint in it twice daily. It takes down the swelling and keep him on antibiotics .

I agree with this. We had a calf very bad with it a few years ago.
Bathed him twice a day or more if we had time, with warm water and salt.
Took us about 2/3 weeks but his leg came to a head and let the fluid out. He didn't look back after it!

(for the sake of some people cribbing, he was also on veterinary treatment for the first few days)

LostCovey

Karen112 wrote: »

I agree with this. We had a calf very bad with it a few years ago.
Bathed him twice a day or more if we had time, with warm water and salt.
Took us about 2/3 weeks but his leg came to a head and let the fluid out. He didn't look back after it!

(for the sake of some people cribbing, he was also on veterinary treatment for the first few days)

It wasn't cribbing Karen 112, it was a simple question about double-dosing a calf with the same antibiotic in two different preparations, and it remains unanswered.

If I was cribbing, I would quibble about your apparent belief that your experience with one calf a few years ago is applicable to somebody else's calf you have never seen, but I am not doing that.

LostCovey

1chippy

Hes putting pressure on it again today. will try bathing it tomorrow. cheers for the help.

razor8

LostCovey wrote: »

Hi Razor8,

What is the benfit in using two different products containing precisely the same penicillin-derived drug (amoxyillin) on this unfortunate animal? Is there any advantage? Surely you are just giving the animal a double-dose of amoxycillin to no effect other than wasting money and prolonging the withdrawal period.

I don't mean to be provocative in questioning your recommendation - it just seems like a very strange recommendation to make.

If there's a reason, and maybe there is, I would love to hear it.

I also think your optimism and assurances that a double-dose of antibiotic will clear a joint infection in a week may be a bit misplaced.

LostCovey

I apologise sincerely lostcovey for making such a ridiculous recommendation, you obviously know better

Who said anything about double dosing, what about half & half, it’s always worked for me anyhow but obviously there are many different strains through flocks and herds so what works for one may not for someone another

LostCovey

razor8 wrote: »

I apologise sincerely lostcovey for making such a ridiculous recommendation, you obviously know better

You don't need to apologise to me Razor8, you weren't wasting my time or money giving two injections of the same thing.

And you weren't putting me into uncharted waters on withdrawal periods either, you were going to harm the OP more than me on both scores.

razor8 wrote: »

Who said anything about double dosing, what about half & half

Well, Razor8, one of the products you were recommending has two active ingredients, as I am sure you know, having recommended them - Noroclav has amoxycillkin & clavulanic acid, so if you go half & half, you are underdosing with the clavulanic acid.

razor8 wrote: »

it’s always worked for me anyhow

Of course double-dosing will "work" - I was more concerend about the damage it could do (prolonged withdrawal) and the ridiculous cost iof double dosing with expensive antibiotics.

As well as the perception it could cause our end customers, if they thought that other farmers would have that approach to controlled antibiotic drugs

razor8 wrote: »

but obviously there are many different strains through flocks and herds so what works for one may not for someone another[/COLOR]

I knew we would agree about something Razor8.

This is the basic reason why internet prescribing has never been a huge success.

LostCovey

greysides

Would be better to give full dose of Noroclav than half of each.

razor8

i dont think withdrawal periods are going to be a issue with a young lamb or calf only a few weeks or month or two old when joint ill generally attacks

Tipp Man

OP shoot the f##king calve and be done with it

this messing around about you can't recommend this or you can't recommend that is wrecking my head to be honest

Withdrawel period on a young calve is a new 1 on me

LostCovey

razor8 wrote: »

i dont think withdrawal periods are going to be a issue with a young lamb or calf only a few weeks or month or two old when joint ill generally attacks

Veal, anybody???

LostCovey

Tipp Man wrote: »

OP shoot the f##king calve and be done with it

this messing around about you can't recommend this or you can't recommend that is wrecking my head to be honest

Withdrawel period on a young calve is a new 1 on me

Sorry to wreck your head TippMan, will try to keep it simple from now on.

LC

redzerologhlen

Tipp Man wrote: »

OP shoot the f##king calve and be done with it

this messing around about you can't recommend this or you can't recommend that is wrecking my head to be honest

Withdrawel period on a young calve is a new 1 on me

You cant recommend that the op himself shoot the calf without knowing if he has a gun licence :rolleyes: I recommend that the op calls a licenced member of his local gun club to shoot him just so hes fully above board or alternatively I can give him the number for our vet who kills everything he touches :D

1chippy

redzerologhlen wrote: »

You cant recommend that the op himself shoot the calf without knowing if he has a gun licence :rolleyes: I recommend that the op calls a licenced member of his local gun club to shoot him just so hes fully above board or alternatively I can give him the number for our vet who kills everything he touches :D[/QUO
have the gun ready for travelling (salesmen). never thought id need it on a calf though.

redzerologhlen

1chippy wrote: »

redzerologhlen wrote: »

You cant recommend that the op himself shoot the calf without knowing if he has a gun licence :rolleyes: I recommend that the op calls a licenced member of his local gun club to shoot him just so hes fully above board or alternatively I can give him the number for our vet who kills everything he touches :D[/QUO
have the gun ready for travelling (salesmen). never thought id need it on a calf though.

I was only messing chippy!!

Bizzum

Tipp Man wrote: »

OP shoot the f##king calve and be done with it

this messing around about you can't recommend this or you can't recommend that is wrecking my head to be honest

Withdrawel period on a young calve is a new 1 on me

What's the withdrawal period for 32g of lead?:D

moy83

Bizzum wrote: »

What's the withdrawal period for 32g of lead?:D

No withdrawal period . Just spit the grains onto the side plate same as you do with a pheasant

LostCovey

moy83 wrote: »

No withdrawal period . Just spit the grains onto the side plate same as you do with a pheasant

Sounds like some of the people on this thread should maybe ensure they don't ingest any more lead, just to be on the safe side.

Noroclav has a 42 day meat withdrawal, so at double dose, its anyone's guess when the meat would be safe. I wouldn't shoot it for the pot anytime soon.......spitting out the pellets wouldn't be the main worry.....