What is your solution?

mikom

yore wrote: »

I'd reckon that most of them are better educated than the majoirty of people here.

Lol.
Now you fuckin' said it
Roll credits

holystungun9

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'd nationalize everything. I'd even nationalize the supermarkets.

EVERYTHING.

Nationalize the IMF I say!

mickrock

A totalitarian regime would sort this country out.

Ronin247

AH answer.
I would make people pay every they f*cked Yore's ma and we would be out of debt in no time!!

My real answer.

Stop paying bank debts but do pay our national debt.
Actually do something about the hse numbers instead of playing musical chairs with the figures. We need teachers,nurses etc but we do not need all the pen pushing paper generators.
Give me a car battery,jump leads and Bertie for 2 hours and I would know who was payed what to sell our oil/gas/mineral rights and then with a signed confession I would nationalise the corrib fields and all the other sh*t our politicians sold for a pittance of cash in a brown envelope.
Reduce number of politicians.

Could go on but......meh

yore

mikom wrote: »

Lol.
Now you ****in' said it
Roll credits

Bear in mind the age profiles of these people too. There aren't that many people above their 40s with degrees!

========
Academic qualifications.

Enda Kenny : None stated, but as far as I know he was a teacher, so at least must have had some sort of degree. Plus he has a long experience in politics. wikipedia says "Kenny subsequently attended St Patrick's College of Education in Dublin and University College Galway."

Eamon Gilmore Degree in Psychology from University College Galway now NUI Galway.

Michael Noonan (From wikipedia) "He was educated at the local national school and St. Patrick's secondary school in Glin before studying primary school teaching at St' Patrick's College of Education in Drumcondra. He subsequently completed a BA and H.Dip. in English and Economics at University College Dublin"

Ruairí Quinn : (from wikipedia). "This led him to study architecture at University College Dublin (UCD) in 1964 and later at the School of Ekistics in Athens."

Brendan Howlin : (from wikipedia) "He later attended St Patrick's College, Drumcondra, Dublin and qualified as a primary school teacher"

Richard Bruton : (wikipedia) "He was educated at Belvedere College, Clongowes Wood College, University College Dublin and Nuffield College, Oxford.[3] At Oxford he graduated with a MPhil in Economics,[3] his thesis being on the subject of Irish public debt"

Joan Burton: (wikipedia) "She was educated at St Gabriel's NS, Cowper St and St Joseph Sisters of Charity Secondary School, Stanhope Street and University College Dublin (UCD) where she graduated with a degree in Commerce. She is also a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants. She has worked as a lecturer in Accountancy in the Dublin Institute of Technology and the University of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania"

Jimmy Deenihan : He was educated at St. Michael's College, Listowel and later at the Thomond College of Education, Limerick in Limerick. He also spent time in college in England.

Pat Rabbitte: (wikipedia) "He returned shortly afterwards to attend University College Galway where he studied English"


Phil Hogan: He was educated locally in St. Joseph's College; Freshford, St. Kieran's College in Kilkenny and University College Cork where he qualified with a Bachelor of Arts degree and a Higher Diploma in Education

Alan Shatter: He was educated at The High School, Dublin and Trinity College, Dublin

Simon Coveney: Coveney subsequently attended University College Cork and Gurteen Agricultural College, before completing a BSc in Agriculture and Land Management from Royal Agricultural College, Gloucestershire

Frances Fitzgerald: she was educated at Dominican College Sion Hill school, Blackrock, University College Dublin and London School of Economics

James Reilly. Qualifies medical doctor. Previously head of the IMO

Leo Varadker: He was educated at King's Hospital School, Palmerstown and Trinity College, Dublin where he qualified as a medical doctor


=====

Temptamperu

My solution, put them on minimum wage and see how fast sht will change.

yore

Ronin247 wrote: »

AH answer.
I would make people pay every they f*cked Yore's ma and we would be out of debt in no time!!

My real answer.

Stop paying bank debts but do pay our national debt.
Actually do something about the hse numbers instead of playing musical chairs with the figures. We need teachers,nurses etc but we do not need all the pen pushing paper generators.
Give me a car battery,jump leads and Bertie for 2 hours and I would know who was payed what to sell our oil/gas/mineral rights and then with a signed confession I would nationalise the corrib fields and all the other sh*t our politicians sold for a pittance of cash in a brown envelope.
Reduce number of politicians.

Could go on but......meh

Nationalising the Corrib field won't do too much to help us. It's a distraction. Yes we should make sure that no corruption ever happens again, but it's not as if we would be rich if Shell didn't have that licence. It's a different topic to the issue of current politicians.....unless of course some of them were involved in shady deals relating to it or similar

yore

Ronin247 wrote: »

AH answer.
I would make people pay every they f*cked Yore's ma and we would be out of debt in no time!!

My real answer.

Stop paying bank debts but do pay our national debt.
Actually do something about the hse numbers instead of playing musical chairs with the figures. We need teachers,nurses etc but we do not need all the pen pushing paper generators.
Give me a car battery,jump leads and Bertie for 2 hours and I would know who was payed what to sell our oil/gas/mineral rights and then with a signed confession I would nationalise the corrib fields and all the other sh*t our politicians sold for a pittance of cash in a brown envelope.
Reduce number of politicians.

Could go on but......meh

And by the way, my username is "yore" because "yore ma" was already taken.... kind of like the way yore ma is usually already taken on a Sat night. You have to arrive in the queue before 3pm to be sure of a ride. Must be something to do with the 10 Euro a ride recession-buster special she's been having for the last 6 month....I blame the government

yore

Temptamperu wrote: »

My solution, put them on minimum wage and see how fast sht will change.

Yeah, a great idea :rolleyes: . And we can still all threaten them and spit at them.

It would just go the way of all other minimum wage jobs..... the lazy Irish would go on the dole (where thay are better off) and the foreigners would have to do the jobs! Taoiseach Pavlo Kratesitlikis anyone?

Stained Class

I honestly don't know, but....

Countries, like families can rot from the top down.

Why not have a system whereby every cabinet post is filled by someone who has experiance of & or the appropriate qualifications for their position?

Not 'cos you drink pints with the Leader of your party, or you fixed a few pot-holes in Kerry or somewhere.

yore

holystungun9 wrote: »

Nationalize the IMF I say!

Yes, lets "nationalise" all the supranationals. :cool: Then we'd be solely responsible for world economic stability. We can bail out and advise all the countries in economic trouble. Who better than the Irish!

Am I allowed to call someone an idiot here?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Get FF back and dismantle democracy in this awful country, the general populus are too stupid to vote anyway.

TheChizler

I'd set up a government IT Department, or Department of IT, that would be responsible for setting up systems itself, with minimal outside contracts. They'd be in charge of consolidating all the different departments' info into one big perfect system. Everyone's info would be filed under their PPS no., and everyone could access their own info online. Individual departments and services would be able to see only what's relevant to them, e.g. detailed health records would be accessible to the HSE and GPs etc., Revenue all income and payments to the state, such as household charge, while Social Protection see a non-detailed health and income overview for the purposes of benefits etc. Everyone would have a personal id card, which when scanned allows encrypted access to relevant information when you require a service. Workplaces could see your tax credits etc. This smart card could act as a welfare debit card if needed. There would be absolutely no security flaws with this system.

Or just rabble rabble bankers rabble...

yore

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Get FF back and dismantle democracy in this awful country, the general populus are too stupid to vote anyway.

Did you watch the video in the link in the opening post :-)

yore

TheChizler wrote: »

I'd set up a government IT Department, or Department of IT, that would be responsible for setting up systems itself, with minimal outside contracts. They'd be in charge of consolidating all the different departments' info into one big perfect system. Everyone's info would be filed under their PPS no., and everyone could access their own info online. Individual departments and services would be able to see only what's relevant to them, e.g. detailed health records would be accessible to the HSE and GPs etc., Revenue all income and payments to the state, such as household charge, while Social Protection see a non-detailed health and income overview for the purposes of benefits etc. Everyone would have a personal id card, which when scanned allows encrypted access to relevant information when you require a service. Workplaces could see your tax credits etc. This smart card could act as a welfare debit card if needed. There would be absolutely no security flaws with this system.

1984?

DEFTLEFTHAND

yore wrote: »

Did you watch the video in the link in the opening post :-)

Nope.

Stained Class

TheChizler wrote: »

I'd set up a government IT Department, or Department of IT, that would be responsible for setting up systems itself, with minimal outside contracts. They'd be in charge of consolidating all the different departments' info into one big perfect system. Everyone's info would be filed under their PPS no., and everyone could access their own info online. Individual departments and services would be able to see only what's relevant to them, e.g. detailed health records would be accessible to the HSE and GPs etc., Revenue all income and payments to the state, such as household charge, while Social Protection see a non-detailed health and income overview for the purposes of benefits etc. Everyone would have a personal id card, which when scanned allows encrypted access to relevant information when you require a service. Workplaces could see your tax credits etc. This smart card could act as a welfare debit card if needed. There would be absolutely no security flaws with this system.

Or just rabble rabble bankers rabble...

They said this about e-voting aswell.

TheChizler

yore wrote: »

1984?

But with less oppression and censorship. Don't get me started on how great complete surveillance of our lives would be! But seriously though, all that info already exists, just any time it needs to be accessed it is a time consuming and expensive (need to go through many levels of management) process. If the public service systems were efficient you can weed out where cuts can be made that will minimally disrupt the service.

TheChizler

Stained Class wrote: »

They said this about e-voting aswell.

We're happy for revenue to give us electronic access to our own tax records secured by a 5 digit pin they send through the post, or use electronic banking. It's gonna happen some day, might as well use it now as a tool.

Chuck Stone

yore wrote: »

Would you be happy for the state to sieze all of your posessions so? You should have moved to Cuba before they allowed for people to own property!

Or again, is it just "nationalize everything belonging to people that have more than me"?

Wait... that's true - I never thought of that.

Okay then I'd privatise everything, ****in' EVERYTHING!

Now I don't mean your typical pussy-ass privatise the means of production and all services. Oh Lawdy Lawdy no. I mean everything: The beaches, forests, lakes, roads, streets, footpaths, airspace etc.

Aw Yeah!

Stained Class

TheChizler wrote: »

We're happy for revenue to give us electronic access to our own tax records secured by a 5 digit pin they send through the post, or use electronic banking. It's gonna happen some day, might as well use it now as a tool.

I understand this.

Fine in theory.............

But, Paddy will always find a way to fook it up.

Remember the Pulse debacle with the Cops?

Johro

yore wrote: »

Sorry for taking up valuable time that you could have put to better use reading about whether fellas wipe their mickeys after they go to the toilet etc. You could have saved a few of those seconds by not bothering to type in a response.

Nice response to that post.
I don't agree with your post though btw. I think you over-simplified those opinions you don't like.

yore

Johro wrote: »

Nice response to that post.
I don't agree with your post though btw. I think you over-simplified those opinions you don't like.

No problem; disagreeing with me is allowed

Johro

yore wrote: »

No problem; disagreeing with me is allowed

Well thank f#ck for that. What a novel idea.

TheChizler

Stained Class wrote: »

I understand this.

Fine in theory.............

But, Paddy will always find a way to fook it up.

Remember the Pulse debacle with the Cops?

Oh yeah, the chances of this being implemented right first time are about on par with the chances of me being made Taoiseach as the OP requires.

Stained Class

TheChizler wrote: »

We're happy for revenue to give us electronic access to our own tax records secured by a 5 digit pin they send through the post, or use electronic banking. It's gonna happen some day, might as well use it now as a tool.

As long as it dosen't cost us a bomb in storage fees & makes us a laughing stock for other countries.

No wait...

Stained Class

TheChizler wrote: »

Oh yeah, the chances of this being implemented right first time are about on par with the chances of me being made Taoiseach as the OP requires.

Did OP require you to run the show?

yore

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Wait... that's true - I never thought of that.

Okay then I'd privatise everything, ****in' EVERYTHING!

Now I don't mean your typical pussy-ass privatise the means of production and all services. Oh Lawdy Lawdy no. I mean everything: The beaches, forests, lakes, roads, streets, footpaths, airspace etc.

Aw Yeah!

I think that the logical conclusion is that privatising everything is bad. And that nationalising everything is equally as bad. So perhaps we should have something in between....kinda like we do at the minute. What we have might not be perfect for everyone, but it's better on average than either extreme!

yore

Stained Class wrote: »

Oh yeah, the chances of this being implemented right first time are about on par with the chances of me being made Taoiseach as the OP requires.

Did OP require you to run the show?

I don't think that that was part of my original thesis. At least not purposely or consciously. Perhaps I subconsciously sent out some subliminal messages to that effect that TheChizler picked up on.

starbelgrade

yore wrote: »

I guess I have to keep my viewpoints simplistic so that people here can understand them..

From what I've read, you don't really have any viewpoints beyond the belief that people who complain about politicians should come up with a more constructive way of directing their criticism.

Besides that, you seem happy enough with the political system, seem quite happy to call other people 'idiots' and appear to have a very smug sense that you are somehow a lot more intellectually capable than the average After Hours poster.

My suspicion is that you are actually keeping your viewpoints simplistic - not because you have complex viewpoints that people cannot understand - but because they are quite simply, simplistic.

But I'll be willing to take that back if you manage to swap me with your deeply complex & well thought out intellectual musings on politics.

No hurry. Take your time.

Johro

He meant 'swamp'.

TheChizler

yore wrote: »

I don't think that that was part of my original thesis. At least not purposely or consciously. Perhaps I subconsciously sent out some subliminal messages to that effect that TheChizler picked up on.

You said "if you were put in charge". I retract my original statement and replace the word 'Taoiseach' with 'in charge'.

starbelgrade

Johro wrote: »

He meant 'swamp'.

I'm still trying to digest the point about "too much nationalisation/ privitisation bad".

It's tougher than reading a Michael Parenti book. I could be here all night.

Johro

starbelgrade wrote: »

I'm still trying to digest the point about "too much nationalisation/ privitisation bad".

It's tougher than reading a Michael Parenti book. I could be here all night.

I'm counting his examples of AH'ers opinions, downgraded into simple little snippets that invite ridicule. I could be here a while too. Making coffee, ya want one?

westendgirlie

Robinsons Orange Barley is much nicer than Miwadi.

yore

starbelgrade wrote: »

From what I've read, you don't really have any viewpoints beyond the belief that people who complain about politicians should come up with a more constructive way of directing their criticism.

Besides that, you seem happy enough with the political system, seem quite happy to call other people 'idiots' and appear to have a very smug sense that you are somehow a lot more intellectually capable than the average After Hours poster.

My suspicion is that you are actually keeping your viewpoints simplistic - not because you have complex viewpoints that people cannot understand - but because they are quite simply, simplistic.

But I'll be willing to take that back if you manage to swap me with your deeply complex & well thought out intellectual musings on politics.

No hurry. Take your time.

I don't know where you got that I have a "smug sense". Perhaps I came across as such to you. Others may agree or disagree with you. As said previously, I am just here for debate with the people who seem to have fairly strong ideas and opinions about politics and politicians and current measures. I am trying to understand their opinions (and by extension, allowing them the opportunity to "convert me" by the use of reasonable argument).

And, yes, the main crux of my initial post is that criticism should be constructive. Not the kind of "if Mr. X politician shows up on my doorstep he'll get a smack in the mouth because he's obviously an idiot if he was elected to the government"

One poster made an insightful post that contained a lot more than it's few words. It said something to the extent that "people are greedy". Therein lies the problem. It can be extended to laziness and refusal to accept responsibilty for anything. Somebody needs to take responsibility to make decisions and try to get people out of the crisis. It is difficult to do it when no matter what they do, the same rabble-rousers spout the same nonsense.

These people work within constraints. That has to be understood. If you are on the waiting list for an operartion, then you can criticise the minister for Health for not immediately reforming the Health Service. However, if you work in the Health service, and the Minister tries to bring in reforms, you can be damn sure that the Unions will fight him on your behalf. Again a simplistic example. It is easy and lazy to criticise people without thinking about a better alternative or even without seeing those constraints.


Don't get me wrong; I do criticise politicians. however I don't criticise them for being politicians!


For Gods sake, you have people crying out for wealth taxes etc. then when the government tries to bring in a basic one in the form of a house tax/charge, the same people go mental! You have a valuable resource in the form of water. People do not appreciate the value of Irish water. Mainly because they don't pay for it. I don't see anything wrong with metering it so that at least people might waste less. And yes there are leaky pipes, but I can't complain against that until I am taking care of my own part.


Why can't people just work together for the sake of the future of the nation instead of throwing the toys out of the pram just because they feel entitled to X, Y or Z.

Stained Class

westendgirlie wrote: »

Robinsons Orange Barley is much nicer than Miwadi.

You sheeting me!

Now there's a subject I can really argue about!:p

yore

TheChizler wrote: »

You said "if you were put in charge". I retract my original statement and replace the word 'Taoiseach' with 'in charge'.

Nope. It was a hypothetical question asking what you would do if you were put in charge. It does not mean that I was not actually calling for you to be put in charge. I am sorry if that confused you. Here is a link that you might enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AB7IDw3PNI

It's similar to if I asked you what would you do if you won the lotto. That should not be construed as a petition from me to the national Lottery that TheChizler should win the lotto!

yore

Stained Class wrote: »

You sheeting me!

Now there's a subject I can really argue about!:p

Mi-Wadi wins hands down

Chuck Stone

yore wrote: »

I think that the logical conclusion is that privatising everything is bad. And that nationalising everything is equally as bad.

I can never do anything right.

I'm so fuckin stupid.

TheChizler

yore wrote: »

Nope. It was a hypothetical question asking what you would do if you were put in charge. It does not mean that I was not actually calling for you to be put in charge. I am sorry if that confused you. Here is a link that you might enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AB7IDw3PNI

It's similar to if I asked you what would you do if you won the lotto. That should not be construed as a petition from me to the national Lottery that TheChizler should win the lotto!

Right... Well my suggestion stands anyway. Take it or leave it.

Stained Class

yore wrote: »

Mi-Wadi wins hands down

Well shure, in the spirit of this debate......well, that's debateable too.

All I can say is that there's zero incentive to work for some people 'cos of the benefits they receive.

Also, hard working people in much worse positions than mine are shelling out to fund other 'humans' that persist in being parasites, regardless of the economic position of the society that funds their very existance.:mad:

yore

TheChizler wrote: »

Right... Well my suggestion stands anyway. Take it or leave it.

Do you mean the suggestion that we implement a central data repository containing all the information pertaining to each individual in the country.

Sort of like setting up a national household register, only with much much more information...


Maybe you have a good idea, but you would be guaranteed to p1$$ a lot of people off trying to implement that. If you were in charge for that week, and tried to put that into practice, you'd have a lot of the people on here attacking you and calling you an idiot etc.

Johro

yore wrote: »

One poster made an insightful post that contained a lot more than it's few words. It said something to the extent that "people are greedy". Therein lies the problem. It can be extended to laziness and refusal to accept responsibilty for anything. Somebody needs to take responsibility to make decisions and try to get people out of the crisis. It is difficult to do it when no matter what they do, the same rabble-rousers spout the same nonsense.

These people work within constraints. That has to be understood. If you are on the waiting list for an operartion, then you can criticise the minister for Health for not immediately reforming the Health Service. However, if you work in the Health service, and the Minister tries to bring in reforms, you can be damn sure that the Unions will fight him on your behalf. Again a simplistic example. It is easy and lazy to criticise people without thinking about a better alternative or even without seeing those constraints.


Don't get me wrong; I do criticise politicians. however I don't criticise them for being politicians!


For Gods sake, you have people crying out for wealth taxes etc. then when the government tries to bring in a basic one in the form of a house tax/charge, the same people go mental! You have a valuable resource in the form of water. People do not appreciate the value of Irish water. Mainly because they don't pay for it. I don't see anything wrong with metering it so that at least people might waste less. And yes there are leaky pipes, but I can't complain against that until I am taking care of my own part.


Why can't people just work together for the sake of the future of the nation instead of throwing the toys out of the pram just because they feel entitled to X, Y or Z.

Just a couple of things: people aren't greedy, some people are greedy.
Being on a waiting list for an operation is not the fault of a union, or even the minister for health, it's because not enough money is allocated to the health service, i.e the minister has to do the best he can with the money he's given. I can however blame hospital management for being inefficient, and the government for not making health and education their priorities when it comes to spending.

The household charge is not a wealth tax.

Most of us realise the government has to work within restraints, financial restraints. We are entitled to criticise the way money, our tax money, is spent.

I don't see anything wrong with water metering, if you want good clean water you have to pay to help provide it. You can't complain about the state of the water and expect the authorities to magic the money to provide it out of thin air. However I don't think people who have paid for private wells and pumps and pay for their their maintenance should have to have a water meter installed.

People are too busy blaming the public sector/private sector/welfare recipients/unions/each other to see the bigger picture.

Johro

yore wrote: »

Do you mean the suggestion that we implement a central data repository containing all the information pertaining to each individual in the country.

Sort of like setting up a national household register, only with much much more information...

We have one of those in Holland, some political action group broke into it years ago and it became clear that they collect data such as whether you have ever taken part in demonstrations and if so, which, what your political and/or religious leanings are etc. , enlightening stuff.

Johro

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I can never do anything right.

I'm so fuckin stupid.

Wouldn't look right to thank that post

yore

Johro wrote: »

Just a couple of things: people aren't greedy, some people are greedy.

Yes that is true. People do tend to benchmark subjective things off their own circumstances. People with two houses complain about having to pay two household charges or the second home charge. People with one house, look at them and think "I can only afford one house, I'm poor". People with no house look at them and think "Why are they complaining, they at least have a house". And then billions of poor/starving people around the world would dream of living in a country like Ireland and being in the "no-house" person's shoes.

Johro wrote: »

The household charge is not a wealth tax.

Not in it's current form because it is a flat charge. But once the registry is set up do you think it will stay at a flat 100 Euro? The government is broke. They are going to have to go after people for more money. This will be done to have some relation to the value of the house/site. 100 Euro is a good base figure so having a flat 100 should mean that nobody is being overcharged. It just means that the wealthy are being temporarily undercharged.

Johro wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with water metering, if you want good clean water you have to pay to help provide it. You can't complain about the state of the water and expect the authorities to magic the money to provide it out of thin air. However I don't think people who have paid for private wells and pumps and pay for their their maintenance should have to have a water meter installed.

If they don't have a pipe coming in from the public main, there is nothing to put a meter on!

Johro wrote: »

People are too busy blaming the public sector/private sector/welfare recipients/unions/each other to see the bigger picture.

I agree 100%.

TheChizler

Johro wrote: »

We have one of those in Holland, some political action group broke into it years ago and it became clear that they collect data such as whether you have ever taken part in demonstrations and if so, which, what your political and/or religious leanings are etc. , enlightening stuff.

What would stop some department doing that at present? It would be the same, only on their own systems.

yore

Johro wrote: »

We have one of those in Holland, some political action group broke into it years ago and it became clear that they collect data such as whether you have ever taken part in demonstrations and if so, which, what your political and/or religious leanings are etc. , enlightening stuff.

My original response to his suggestion was "1984?".

That last post wasn't commenting on the suggestion itself, just more on the difficulty in implementing something for a politician. i.e no matter what you do, you will always step on someone's toes! Basically, it's easy to come up with something that looks great on paper, but you have to think of more than one step down the line when proposing an economic or societal panacea

the_syco

forfuxsake wrote: »

Germany has the last word on this or as they like to call it

ze final solution.

I believed they had a Nice treaty for the final solution already?