Anders Breivik - Norwegian Massacre

Duggy747

He's giving his statement at the moment:

I have done the most sophisticated and spectacular political attack seen in Europe since the Second World War....

Liberals and marxists never wanted to have a democracy, since they feared new hitlers would pop up and cause the third world war.
1968 was the marxist revolutionary year… a socialist egalitarian system was built...the greater the victim you were the higher up in the hierarchy of power you could be.

crazygeryy

he doesnt look evil and he doesnt look insane.personally i think he should be tortured to within an inch of his life.then put in jail for life and then just surprise him one day and tell him hes being excecuted today come on lets go.
anyone saying he should get a bullet or the death penalty,its to quick he need s to die a slow painful horrifying terrifying death,like his 77 victims.

hes just after saying "id do it all again" ffs

sunflower27

crazygeryy wrote: »

hes just after saying "id do it all again" ffs

Not that remorse to families is any consolation, but that is the ultimate slap in the face to them.

I don't know if he is insane or not, but some people are obviously born that are capable of the most horrific crimes with no conscience at all to the hurt and suffering they cause and he is obviously one of them.

I agree that execution is the easy way out for him.

crazygeryy

sunflower27 wrote: »

Not that remorse to families is any consolation, but that is the ultimate slap in the face to them.

I don't know if he is insane or not, but some people are obviously born that are capable of the most horrific crimes with no conscience at all to the hurt and suffering they cause and he is obviously one of them.

I agree that execution is the easy way out for him.

the fact that he may only get a maximum of 21 years in prison just defies logic and is very scary.surely in a country where that is the law, they can make an exception for this animal and lock him up for good.whos going to object?

Dyr

I should probably worry that the first thing I noticed about his propaganda video was what MMORPG he'd nicked the soundtrack off.

In fairness though, it was a soundtrack by a Norwegian composer and a game developed by a Norwegian company so I guess he stuck to his principles.

Ush1

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't know how he could be considered as 'sane'. He may not be diagnosable but he's clearly fcuking mental.

You're considered sane when you don't suffer from any known mental illness and display a certain degree of rationality AFAIK.

I think one shrink found him insane and another perfectly sane.

St.Spodo

Showing a level of evil beyond our comprehension doesn't necessarily make him insane. Broadly speaking, there are cranks throughout Europe who share his views, Breivik was just willing to kill for those views. I don't pretend to be an expert on criminal law but surely fanaticism doesn't automatically equate to insanity.

Ush1

WindSock wrote: »

More use can be come of him if he is studied and profiled than a slab of cold meat. If it is possible though.

I agree.

I think with the death penalty it will never get to the root of a problem. It is purely meant for deterrent/punishment/societal solution.

hooradiation

Father Damo wrote: »

Oh come on. For a start, the logic of the whole thing does not make the slightest bit of sense. If he had stockpiled all this heavy weaponry and explosives, why attack Norwegian people? Why not the immigrants he was claiming to want to drive out of Europe? The UVF and LVF never massacred Protestants to warn them to get on their side. The whole thing smells highly fishy. It wouldnt be the first time secretive government forces have manipulated mentally ill people into carrying out dirty work for their own political ends.

Simply because you cannot comprehend the reasoning of a lunatic doesn't mean there was a conspiracy.

goodie2shoes

My name is URL wrote: »

Is such an extreme level of evilness not a sign that insanity may be a factor? There was no realisable reason for him to do what he done.. all of it was built up in his own head, and completely disconnected from reality.

I do hope that he is found to be insane. Otherwise his crusade will seem more normalised than it deserves to be.

Just because you disagree with someone's viewpoint or their methods however repugnant, does not necessarily mean they are insane.

sunflower27

he deliberately targetted those young people because they were in an isolated location and that fact made it highly probable he would be able to kill more because there was nowhere for them to hide - unless they were prepared to take their chances in the ocean.

I don't know obviously what the guy was thinking, but I think he specifically chose the time he did to do it because it played into his warped fantasy that he could go on a shooting spree and hunt down vulnerable people that were physically trapped from escape.

He wanted to kill as many people as possible and the island allowed him to do that.

leggo

I'm glad that he wasn't killed, only so he can be studied and evaluated so we can understand what goes on in the mind of someone who does something who does something like this and, hopefully, prevent it from happening again.

Likewise, I don't think he is insane. I liked the theory that he felt he was destined for greatness and this was his way of doing something important in life...that seems to follow in with a lot of his writings. I believe he sees this as a political/war crime and can justify it in his mind as such. There are signs of humanity and remorse in his head, such as using his iPod to distract himself from his conscience. He's quite intelligent like that, dangerously so.

Have to say the most chilling part of the documentary was the handheld footage where you could hear the shots on the island. There you could hear it wasn't just one murderous rampage, it was slow, calculated, methodical. Scary.

Also think the Norweigan police were very hard done by. I mean, especially if you were one of the kids on the island, I can understand why they're frustrated there wasn't quicker action. But what more could they have done given what they knew? It's a horrible sign that, if people like this think up a plan of action this detailed, they will get time to do some damage and can play the system to their advantage.

LuckyLloyd

It's definitely easier and more comfortable for the world to label this guy as insane, and would make the job of the Norwegian Authorities an awful lot less complicated.

Leslie91

Ush1 wrote: »

I agree.

I think with the death penalty it will never get to the root of a problem. It is purely meant for deterrent/punishment/societal solution.

But the death penalty is known NOT to be a deterrent.

A poll was done in Norway asking should the death penalty be brought back for this lad only. 65% said No. Something like 15% said yes.

Amazing.

I wonder what the poll would be if they were asked should he admitting he murdered in cold blood be enough reason to jail him immediately for life provided he is not insane?. And so not waste time with the court case.

leggo

Leslie91 wrote: »

I wonder what the poll would be if they were asked should he admitting he murdered in cold blood be enough reason to jail him immediately for life provided he is not insane?. And so not waste time with the court case.

No, I don't like when I see this kind of stuff written. You start undermining the justice system with crap like this and next they're throwing away political opponents without a trial (ala Guantanamo Bay).

I know you weren't being completely serious in your suggestion but it's important that everyone understands why these processes are in place. It's not a waste of time and, in this case, it's Norway showing civilisation and restraint to a cold-blooded murderer in prosecuting him.

hooradiation

leggo wrote: »

No, I don't like when I see this kind of stuff written. You start undermining the justice system with crap like this and next they're throwing away political opponents without a trial (ala Guantanamo Bay).

I know you weren't being completely serious in your suggestion but it's important that everyone understands why these processes are in place.

It's important that he be given a fair trial. If for no other reason than nothing destroys stupid ideas quite like the harsh light of public interest.

sunflower27

This all brings back memories of the horrific Port Arthur massacre that happened in Tasmania in 1996. Martin Bryan killed 35 people and wounded 21 at the Port Arthur historical site.

I was working at a national newpaper at the time and was about to sign off from my shift when news started filtering in - 10 dead, 15 dead, 25.... it just kept rising. I will never forget that day.

Link here to it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bryant

Ush1

Leslie91 wrote: »

But the death penalty is known NOT to be a deterrent.

A poll was done in Norway asking should the death penalty be brought back for this lad only. 65% said No. Something like 15% said yes.

Amazing.

I wonder what the poll would be if they were asked should he admitting he murdered in cold blood be enough reason to jail him immediately for life provided he is not insane?. And so not waste time with the court case.

I believe the same is true of jail time also.

Why is it amazing, it's frivilous to want the death penalty for a specific case?

I don't think a court case in this instance is a waste of time at all.

Latchy

NiThigim wrote: »

He has contempt for the Norwegian society. His council is actually trying to prove his sane and that he is at war with the Norwegian state. What a shame he was not shot dead.

He's the perfet example of a sociopath who belives he is above the law of ordinary mortals.He's also a phycopath, insane ,mad ,evil and yes it's shame he wasn't shot so the familys of the victims and the world would not have to witness his stomach churning gloats and his contempt for the courts, and people of Norway .

surime

I've seen another video from court yesterday and they were shaking his hands...
Why they treat him with so much respect?
I mean this is way better then no respect for life in China or Belarus were they send people for death with not even enough evidence.. but is this not too much?
He ended up about 70 young lives, with them lives of hundreds of victims relatives and they are listening to this nonsense about his "mission" they greet him, they treat him with all honours!
He should at least feel people around despise him and they should not show to public his stupid videos about his "mission".
I think this man not deserves even one day of freedom, he should spend his life in jail -at least 20 years for every single life he took!

Sappa

Latchy wrote: »

He's the perfet example of a sociopath who belives he is above the law of ordinary mortals.He's also a phycopath, insane ,mad ,evil and yes it's shame he wasn't shot so the familys of the victims and the world would not have to witness his stomach churning gloats and his contempt for the courts, and people of Norway .

Very similar thing happened in Port Arthur in Tasmania,Martin Bryant went to that rural cottage after and shot the couple,then set the place on fire and when he came out the police should of acted and dropped him but instead took him into custody.
I knew one of the victims who was killed in the cafe and the family had to go through unnecessary pain since this guy was taken alive.

themadchef

Would really hate to see inside that guys head.

Sounds like all you would see in his head is every movie about secret societies and missions of the knights Templar , ****ing screwball he is.

Yakult

Hope he never sees the light of day again.
People are talking about murder being only 21 years, for one murder I assume? So multiply that by the 80 or so people he murdered and that's the sentence he deserves.

surime

Yakult wrote: »

Hope he never sees the light of day again.
People are talking about murder being only 21 years, for one murder I assume? So multiply that by the 80 or so people he murdered and that's the sentence he deserves.

In Norwegian law 21 years is the longest sentence, but I just heard on the radio that after this period they assess prisoner mental condition and this for some means life in prison and it will probably be this way with him...

surime

Does anybody understand why they shake hands with him?

My name is URL

Yakult wrote: »

Hope he never sees the light of day again.
People are talking about murder being only 21 years, for one murder I assume? So multiply that by the 80 or so people he murdered and that's the sentence he deserves.

In Norway, all life sentences run concurrently. He could be sentenced to 1,000 life terms and still would only serve a max of 21 years. That's why I think he needs to be found insane.. it means that his sentence would technically be indefinite, and he wouldn't be released as long as he still poses a threat.

surime

My name is URL wrote: »

He could be sentenced to 1,000 life terms and still would only serve a max of 21 years.

I just heard on news that's not true. They can extend his sentence after every 21 year period.

long range shooter

darlett wrote: »

I assume after 20 years in jail they just chuck him in a spongey room and throw away the key? I mean really...release that??? You just dont.

Oh i hope they let him out after 1 year,i am sure Norwegians will take him back with open arms:rolleyes:
I know many,including me,who wouldnt mind 10 min alone with him:mad:

No.125

i dont see any difference between this guy and your typical american/britsh soldier going to war in iraq/afghanistan. what do you guys think?

long range shooter

No.125 wrote: »

i dont see any difference between this guy and your typical american/britsh soldier going to war in iraq/afghanistan. what do you guys think?

The difference is that the soldiers are fighting terrorism,but he is a terrorist,thats a big difference;):rolleyes:

No.125

anyone who walks around with a gun is a terrorist..no?

surime

No.125 wrote: »

i dont see any difference between this guy and your typical american/britsh soldier going to war in iraq/afghanistan. what do you guys think?

They don't kill kids on a camp at war.. do they?

No.125

well in fairness..they do drop bombs and such..so yeh they kill innocent kids..

long range shooter

No.125 wrote: »

anyone who walks around with a gun is a terrorist..no?

No anyone that kills 77 teenagers on an island is a terorist.;)
What planet do you live on?

Temptamperu

Every time I read about this guy I tell my American girlfriend... and every time she asks "who?" and then complains when I tell her, you would know his name if he had black hair and brown eyes.

Pabzzz

No.125 wrote: »

i dont see any difference between this guy and your typical american/britsh soldier going to war in iraq/afghanistan. what do you guys think?

Soldiers don't wake up in the morning, and plan to murder innocent children. This guy should be locked up and never be let out again. The death sentence would be an easy way out. Let him suffer and rot away in jail for the rest of his life. Absolute horrible scumbag.

long range shooter

Temptamperu wrote: »

Every time I read about this guy I tell my American girlfriend... and every time she asks "who?" and then complains when I tell her, you would know his name if he had black hair and brown eyes.

No its not an easy name to pronounce for anyone englishspeaking.
My wife still cant say my Norwegian name right after 12 years in Ireland;)

leggo

I think the point he is making is that this person sees himself as 'at war'. And really what is the difference between going to war on a government's agenda or a personal agenda that you feel strongly about?

Also, people may want to do some research into Norway before being do quick to criticise their systems. Their standing as a nation is vastly superior to us, they have avoided recession and seem to have a very peaceful, civilised, inclusive society. We might learn a thing or two from adopting their attitudes, so I wouldn't judge without asking questions first.

No.125

Pabzzz wrote: »

Soldiers don't wake up in the morning, and plan to murder innocent children. This guy should be locked up and never be let out again. The death sentence would be an easy way out. Let him suffer and rot away in jail for the rest of his life. Absolute horrible scumbag.

yes that is true..but they do go to work with the intention of killing people if they feel nescessary..innocent people and terrorists alike. sure it's their job afterall..

i do agree he is a horrible scumbag.

ressem

There's loads of mental disorders being associated with this lowlife on this thread.
How about...

Dissocial personality disorder.[5]
It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
Callous unconcern for the feelings of others
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them
Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society

It's not inhuman thinking. It's the extreme equivalent of inflicting violence on a community or group and rationalising it based on vehement disagreement with actions of the Norwegian government, or more locally Paisley/ Adams / Ahern / Kenny / Gilmore. And as such people should guard themselves from being swept along into organisations without clear, viable, non-violent plans to push their agenda.

Hopefully the actions and posturing of Breivik will drive away people on the fringes of these groups who might otherwise be suckered in by the fear mongering rationalizations.
Though it'll probably have a simultaneous damaging effect on a small number of others.

gubbie

surime wrote: »

I just heard on news that's not true. They can extend his sentence after every 21 year period.

Ya, seriously, some people are not even reading the posts before them!

Possible results:
- Anders is found to be mentally unstable and spends the rest of his life in a padded cell
- Anders is found guilty of all 77 murders. He is sentenced to 21 years in jail. After 21 years, a panel gathers to assess if he is a threat to society. If he is he'll be put back for another 3 years and the process will repeat itself. He may never get out. The whole thing might be like Charles Manson

This is what they're saying on all the news sites

From the BBC:
If the court decides he is criminally insane, he will be committed to psychiatric care; if he is judged to be mentally stable, he will be jailed if found guilty.

If jailed, he faces a sentence of 21 years which could be extended to keep him behind bars for the rest of his life.

From the Telegraph:
If the judges find Breivik sane, he risks:
- up to 21 years in prison, the maximum under Norwegian law for "acts of terror"
- preventive detention, which means up to 21 years in prison, with a provision allowing for extensions until he is no longer deemed a danger to society.
If the judges find Breivik insane:
- he will be sentenced to a closed psychiatric ward, possibly for the rest of his life. If he were to be found cured by the care he receives, he could be released as long as he is no longer considered a threat to society. If this condition is not fulfilled, he could be transferred to a prison under a provision that has only been used once in Norway.

This is why does not want to be seen as insane.

sunflower27

The link I posted a few pages back about Martin Bryant, the guy responsible for the Port Arthur massacre. I know it is different countries and different laws but this is how his life has panned out:

Bryant was judged as fit to stand trial, and his trial was scheduled to begin 7 November 1996. Bryant initially pleaded not guilty, but was persuaded by his court-appointed lawyer and the prosecution to plead guilty to all charges.[6]

Two weeks later, Hobart Supreme Court Judge William Cox gave Bryant 35 life sentences for the murders plus 1035 years for other crimes, and ordered that he should remain in prison for the "rest of his life."[10]

He has attempted suicide six times while being imprisoned.[11] For the first eight months of his imprisonment, he was held in a purpose-built special suicide prevention cell, in almost complete solitary confinement. He remained in protective custody for his own safety, until he was moved to a newly built detention centre ten years after his conviction.
On 13 November 2006 Bryant was moved into Hobart's Wilfred Lopes Centre,[2] a secure mental health unit run by the Tasmanian Department of Health and Human Services. The 35-bed unit for inmates with serious mental illness is staffed with doctors, nurses and other support workers. Inmates are not locked down and can come and go from their cells. Exterior security at the facility is provided by a three-wall perimeter patrolled by private contract guards.[12]

Bryant attempted suicide on 25 March 2007 by slashing his wrist with a razor blade. On 27 March he cut his throat with another razor blade and was hospitalised briefly before being transferred to Risdon Prison.[13]

newmug

Father Damo wrote: »

Oh come on. For a start, the logic of the whole thing does not make the slightest bit of sense. If he had stockpiled all this heavy weaponry and explosives, why attack Norwegian people? Why not the immigrants he was claiming to want to drive out of Europe? The UVF and LVF never massacred Protestants to warn them to get on their side. The whole thing smells highly fishy. It wouldnt be the first time secretive government forces have manipulated mentally ill people into carrying out dirty work for their own political ends.

Not with you atall there Father Damo. What do you think is going on?

sunflower27 wrote: »

he deliberately targetted those young people because they were in an isolated location and that fact made it highly probable he would be able to kill more because there was nowhere for them to hide - unless they were prepared to take their chances in the ocean. He wanted to kill as many people as possible and the island allowed him to do that.

Dunno if I'd agree with that. Surely there's places with a higher concentration of people, eg a soccer match? I think his motivation for the island killings was that it was a Labour-party run event. He seems to have a gripe with left-wingedness in general. Pretty obvious seeing as he is a right-wing nut.

No.125 wrote: »

i dont see any difference between this guy and your typical american/britsh soldier going to war in iraq/afghanistan. what do you guys think?

There are similarities alright, but soldiers just do what they're told, they dont plan to murder. Now their bosses on the other hand........

I can understand where Brevick is coming from. He is extremely patriotic, and cannot bear to see his national identity being diluted. Obviously thats not actually happening, but in his mind, it is. However, murdering innocent people is not the way to bolster support for your point-of-view. I think he's not evil, not insane, just obsessed with patriotism to the point of mis-placed violence. Wouldn't be the first time it ever happened, us Irish would know a thing or two about that!!!!!

gubbie

sunflower27 wrote: »

The link I posted a few pages back about Martin Bryant...

Hmm..., I don't understand why you posted that. This guy really only has one association with Anders Breivik and that is that he killed a bunch of people with a gun. This Bryant guy sounds like a depressed drunk who got fed up with the world so decided to take as many people out of it as possible so that he could be remembered. There doesn't sound like there was a huge amount of planning. Breivik however was meticulous. He bought a farmhouse so that no suspicions would arise when he ordered fertiliser for making a bomb, he choose Utoya because it was an island that would be difficult to escape from. He even made a police uniform so that people would trust him. And he did all this to 'free Norway and Western Europe from Muslims and multiculturalism"

This guy is essentially the modern day Hitler who luckily never had any power. He wanted to kill people (kids), even his own country men because they had different opinions.

It just seems that you're assuming their lives will turn out similar.

Maybe you're suggesting he'll regularly try and take his own life, but he has said that he didn't expect to come off that island alive so he clearly doesn't fear death. But where some killers turn the gun on themselves, he never did. He had the opportunity to kill himself on that island but he didn't. Instead he gave himself up. He wants to get his message, his warped message across and hope that other Norwegians will continue. I'd say he wants to live to see if that happens.

Maybe I'm not reading it properly!
They definitely are two different forms of evil though

M cebee

this guy seems to be an awful twat
pity someone wouldn't give him an awful root up the hole while he's doing his silly salute and put him crying again

gustafo

M cebee wrote: »

this guy seems to be an awful twat
pity someone wouldn't give him an awful root up the hole while he's doing his silly salute and put him crying again

Right he is a nutter who has done some mad bad **** but i think its pure entertainment watching him in that court room.

44leto

Why are they giving him an audience, it should be a closed to the public trial. Perhaps the family of the victims should be allowed to attend but that is all, no press what so ever.

The twat will inspire another twat,

jaffacakesyum

gustafo wrote: »

Right he is a nutter who has done some mad bad **** but i think its pure entertainment watching him in that court room.

How on earth do you find that entertaining? Interesting, fascinating, maybe. But I wouldn't say it's entertaining to watch the trial of a man who caused so much hurt and pain and shows absolutely no remorse.

M cebee

gustafo wrote: »

M cebee wrote: »

this guy seems to be an awful twat
pity someone wouldn't give him an awful root up the hole while he's doing his silly salute and put him crying again

Right he is a nutter who has done some mad bad **** but i think its pure entertainment watching him in that court room.

I havent heard much of his waffle yet

he appears to be a dangerous deranged clown

how the **** did he do all this

google??