Anders Breivik - Norwegian Massacre

M cebee

44leto wrote: »

Why are they giving him an audience, it should be a closed to the public trial. Perhaps the family of the victims should be allowed to attend but that is all, no press what so ever.

The twat will inspire another twat,

it may serve some purpose if he is exposed
as a dangerous idiot

My name is URL

44leto wrote: »

Why are they giving him an audience, it should be a closed to the public trial. Perhaps the family of the victims should be allowed to attend but that is all, no press what so ever.

The twat will inspire another twat,

They take inclusiveness and transparency etc extremely seriously in Norway. There's even a lay judge on the panel.. someone with no legal background whatsoever; who is selected to give their verdict and considerations on the defendant, as a peer.

The courtroom has been built especially for Breivik's trial, to allow more people to attend. Understanding of law amongst the public relies heavily on including them in its inner workings, and allowing them to attend or otherwise observe hearings.

biko

By having closed doors they'll only fuel both the right and the left conspiracy nuts.
I think an open trial and an open discussion is the best way forward. Trying to sweep things under the carpet is what triggered Brevik in the first place.

M cebee

which is best?

muzzle him

let him talk bolox,expose himself as a clown

but maybe inspire more dangerous clowns

hmm I dunno

leggo

Yes but having an open discussion also allows the clearly sensible argument to silence the extremist one. Imagine how vilified someone who posted here defending him would be, for example. Whereas silence allows misinformation and contempt to build. It also shows him how little of a mandate for his actions he has, whereas he could play the martyr card if kept locked away and silenced.

gyppo

This guy did this to achieve some sort of notoriety.

What he deserves is to live every day of the rest of his life in abject misery. In a cold concrete cell, with no clothes, no heating, and no sanitation, so he can reflect on his actions while living in his own filth. Throw a raw head of cabbage into his cell once a week, and let him rot. And let him think the world has forgotten about him.

Manic Moran

No.125 wrote: »

yes that is true..but they do go to work with the intention of killing people if they feel nescessary..innocent people and terrorists alike. sure it's their job afterall..

I think intent and authority have something to do with it. A soldier's job is to conduct violence on behalf of the State, and usually the State will have a monopoly on the right to decide to conduct such violence (amongst various other rights reserved to thew State, such as incarceration, posession of one's assets, violations of privacy etc).

This chap, however, outside of process, decided to go kill people on his own initiative with no authority to do so whatsoever. The similarities are tenuous to say the least.

NTM

surime

gyppo wrote: »

This guy did this to achieve some sort of notoriety.

What he deserves is to live every day of the rest of his life in abject misery. In a cold concrete cell, with no clothes, no heating, and no sanitation, so he can reflect on his actions while living in his own filth. Throw a raw head of cabbage into his cell once a week, and let him rot. And let him think the world has forgotten about him.

:rolleyes: You can dream about it. I've seen a prison in Sweden (suppose they are much alike) I didn't realized it was a prison until I was told! I was thinking its some kind of rehab/spa!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277158/Halden-Prison-Inside-Norways-posh-new-jail.html

gyppo

surime wrote: »

:rolleyes: You can dream about it. I've seen a prison in Sweden (suppose they are much alike) I didn't realized it was a prison until I was told! I was thinking its some kind of rehab/spa!

Yeah, I agree with you.

Corkfeen

surime wrote: »

:rolleyes: You can dream about it. I've seen a prison in Sweden (suppose they are much alike) I didn't realized it was a prison until I was told! I was thinking its some kind of rehab/spa!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277158/Halden-Prison-Inside-Norways-posh-new-jail.html

I'm still not sure if its fair to criticise Norwegian Prisons... They're merely attempting more unusual methods to actually reform prisoners by being humane. Its not as if existing prisons in Uk, America or Ireland have particularly high levels of producing rehabilitated criminals. I mean this in a general sense rather than in terms of Breivik. I have the utmost respect for how well the Norwegians have dealt with this situation overall..

My name is URL

surime wrote: »

:rolleyes: You can dream about it. I've seen a prison in Sweden (suppose they are much alike) I didn't realized it was a prison until I was told! I was thinking its some kind of rehab/spa!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277158/Halden-Prison-Inside-Norways-posh-new-jail.html

Well the system obviously works. Recidivism rates in Norway are in and around 20%, while in the US, for example; the rate hovers around 60%.

Norway also only has 0.063% of its population incarcerated, while in the US it's 0.753%.

bradlente

If Anders Brevik's brain activity was measured in internet speed,It'd be a dial-up connection.

surime

Corkfeen wrote: »

I'm still not sure if its fair to criticise Norwegian Prisons... They're merely attempting more unusual methods to actually reform prisoners by being humane. Its not as if existing prisons in Uk, America or Ireland have particularly high levels of producing rehabilitated criminals. I mean this in a general sense rather than in terms of Breivik. I have the utmost respect for how well the Norwegians have dealt with this situation overall..

With him it is not about REHABILITATION it is about PUNISHMENT!

Corkfeen

surime wrote: »

With him it is not about REHABILITATION it is about PUNISHMENT!

I was referring to the Norwegian prison system in general. But I am of the opinion that its of the discretion of Norway to decide where to put him. If it doesn't fit with what we would view to be an adequate punishment, it does not mean that they should pander to international opinion on what treatment is fair.

surime

Corkfeen wrote: »

I was referring to the Norwegian prison system in general.

I know, but by showing where he might spend his life I was referring to proportions of what he has done to what will be done to him for that.
I am not saying this is a heaven, because it would be a hell to be a prisoner even in a 5 star hotel apartment, but it just seems not fair really.
But maybe they are right I don't know..
Authorities should "lead by example" maybe and if some good is showed too people they can really change (not in this life for him, this life should be a darkness for him).

No.125

Manic Moran wrote: »

I think intent and authority have something to do with it. A soldier's job is to conduct violence on behalf of the State, and usually the State will have a monopoly on the right to decide to conduct such violence (amongst various other rights reserved to thew State, such as incarceration, posession of one's assets, violations of privacy etc).

This chap, however, outside of process, decided to go kill people on his own initiative with no authority to do so whatsoever. The similarities are tenuous to say the least.

NTM

just because a government hand you a gun..does that mean you have the authority to kill..i personally don't see a difference is what brevik has done with any other soldier. soldiers who went to iraq & afghanistan claiming to be fighting for democracy & freedom are the real terrorists..they massacred thousands of innocent civilians.

brevik has as much authority as any other person on the planet. he believes he's saving his country..he believes multiculturalism is an attack on his cultural identity. there are thousands/millions who would agree with him to an extent.

F12

gyppo wrote: »

Throw a raw head of cabbage into his cell once a week, and let him rot. And let him think the world has forgotten about him.

What's with the spoiling him with the cabbage thing? Pure luxury that...:D

StinkyMunkey

No.125 wrote: »

just because a government hand you a gun..does that mean you have the authority to kill..i personally don't see a difference is what brevik has done with any other soldier. soldiers who went to iraq & afghanistan claiming to be fighting for democracy & freedom are the real terrorists..they massacred thousands of innocent civilians.

brevik has as much authority as any other person on the planet. he believes he's saving his country..he believes multiculturalism is an attack on his cultural identity. there are thousands/millions who would agree with him to an extent.

War is ugly, innnocents always suffer the most.

"other soldiers" generally as a rule dont go around shooting childern in the head while laughing. Of course there has been unspeakable acts committed by soldiers throughout the ages. And it still happens today.

Fact is, what Brevik did is wrong. Niether soldiers or Brevik have any "authority" to walk around shooting innocents at point blank range in the head. Unless of course you like massacring your own population like in Syria, but this thread is not about the acts of various armies/soldiers in war, its about a sick evil piece of filth.

And there probably are thousands/millions of insane people in the world who would agree with a scumbag like Brevik and what he did. But thankfully there is BILLIONS who dont.

They should hold a lottery in Norway to see who would get to shoot him in the head on live TV. I wonder how many would enter that lottery? There are thousands who have been directly affected by this act of evil, im syre they would like a chance to enter.

My name is URL

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

They should hold a lottery in Norway to see who would get to shoot him in the head on live TV. I wonder how many would enter that lottery? There are thousands who have been directly affected by this act of evil, im syre they would like a chance to enter.

You make that sound like literally everyone would 'enter the lotto'

an opinion poll was run only recently which asked whether people would like to see the death penalty reintroduced in Norway, only to be applied in Breivik's case, and only 15% of respondents said yes.

Not only would there be a poor uptake of such a lottery, but the overwhelming majority of people (who are a whole lot more involved in and affected by Breivik's actions than any of us), would not stand for such a lottery existing.

Sappa

The only reason people are comparing this to a military action is because anders declared it an act of war in turn sparking a debate on a cause etc.
Reality is he is severly touched and took this upon himself to kill as many people but needed to justify it to himself by declaring an act of war and proclaiming a cause.
The guy is a psychopath no more,soldiers for the vast majority are not psychopaths but often are forced to kill to defend themselves or their squadron,this man chose to kill purely for his own sick goals.

StinkyMunkey

My name is URL wrote: »

You make that sound like literally everyone would 'enter the lotto'

an opinion poll was run only recently which asked whether people would like to see the death penalty reintroduced in Norway, only to be applied in Breivik's case, and only 15% of respondents said yes.

Not only would there be a poor uptake of such a lottery, but the overwhelming majority of people (who are a whole lot more involved in and affected by Breivik's actions than any of us), would not stand for such a lottery existing.

I purposely said "i wonder how many would enter" - that doesnt imply "literally" everyone in the country would.

I did imply "literally" all the family/friends directly affected by this tragedy would.

I probably should have also stated that the last sentence was a hypothetical situation. I didnt really think they would allow a televised execution in a country that doesnt even have the death penalty.

That was me just venting, if someone murdered my child i would like the opportunity seek retribution (another hypothetical situation, im glad i live in a society that will protect me even from myself, anarchy doesnt really appeal to me).

IM0

this thread is stroking his ego very nicely, just by being here. well done lads :pac:

StinkyMunkey

IM0 wrote: »

this thread is stroking his ego very nicely, just by being here. well done lads :pac:

Lets face it, an act as evil as this is going to be dicussed for years to come.

Ill think you will find most of what is said anyway about this is not very flattering for Brevik. Mind you, someone as insane as him might enjoy it.

IM0

IM0 wrote: »

this thread is stroking his ego very nicely, just by being here. well done lads :pac:

Yeah he loves to pop into AH for a good laugh from his cell.
Anders i love your beard.....it's soooooo dictator!!!

gubbie

RVP 11 wrote: »

Yeah he loves to pop into AH for a good laugh from his cell.
Anders i love your beard.....it's soooooo dictator!!!

Do you think he's going for a similar hitler tache "Ooo you can't cut your beard like that, that's a Breivik beard"

gubbie

"Court should free me or sentence me to death. I do not accept 21 years in prison. I support lay judge who wanted to give me death penalty"

Maybe I was completely wrong about him wanting to die!

KeithAFC

Can see him being a martyr in the years to come from the groups who agree with his views. He made a good point about terrorists in regards to the Native Americans. They would be seen as terrorists today even if they are fighting for freedom. Same with Sam Davis in 1863.

karma_

gubbie wrote: »

"Court should free me or sentence me to death. I do not accept 21 years in prison. I support lay judge who wanted to give me death penalty"

Maybe I was completely wrong about him wanting to die!

He wants to become a martyr, let him grow to be old, pathetic and irrelevant.
I have to commend the Norwegian justice system thus far, they are doing a fantastic job.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Can see him being a martyr in the years to come from the groups who agree with his views. He made a good point about terrorists in regards to the Native Americans. They would be seen as terrorists today even if they are fighting for freedom. Same with Sam Davis in 1863.

A child could have come up with that one Keith, it's hardly a great insight now.

biko

There are many people that agree with him in that Islam etc is a threat to the Western world.
However, none of those would take up arms and kill kids like he did and he should rot in jail for his crimes.
The same goes for Mohamed Merah that killed the soldiers and the Jewish kids in France, many would say that he was right in hating the soldiers and the kids but killing them was too far.

The difference between the two is that Brevik acted alone with no known supporters. Mohamed Merah had support, his brother among others (actually the trial will determine this).
Breviks organisation doesn't exist, Merah claimed membership of al-Qaeda.

In my book Brevik was a lone crazed gunman and if I had the chance I would have shot him myself.

KeithAFC

biko wrote: »

There are many people that agree with him in that Islam etc is a threat to the Western world.
However, none of those would take up arms and kill kids like he did and he should rot in jail for his crimes.
The same goes for Mohamed Merah that killed the soldiers and the Jewish kids in France, many would say that he was right in hating the soldiers and the kids but killing them was too far.

The difference between the two is that Brevik acted alone with no known supporters. Mohamed Merah had support, his brother among others (actually the trial will determine this).
Breviks organisation doesn't exist, Merah claimed membership of al-Qaeda.

In my book Brevik was a lone crazed gunman and if I had the chance I would have shot him myself.

You think Brevik is the only guy in Europe who has those views?

karma_

KeithAFC wrote: »

You think Brevik is the only guy in Europe who has those views?

You hardly have to travel any farther than this forum to confirm that point.

biko

No, but he's the only one I know of that has massacred kids in some right-wing plot.
Did you not read the first line in my post you quoted?

hooradiation

karma_ wrote: »

You hardly have to travel any farther than this forum to confirm that point.

Thankfully, they're as impotent as their ideas.

biko

If only that was the case for the people he opposed, the radical muslims.

Both Merah and Brievik probably got radicalised to some degree by visiting certain websites and deciding that the only thing left to do was to go to some extreme and start killing people. Neither was right in this.

hooradiation

biko wrote: »

If only that was the case for the people he opposed, the radical muslims.

Yeah, that island full of radical Muslims sure got what was coming to them.....

KeithAFC

biko wrote: »

No, but he's the only one I know of that has massacred kids in some right-wing plot.
Did you not read the first line in my post you quoted?

True. But there does seem to be a lot of people with similar type views as this guy in Europe like Italy as an example.

biko

hooradiation wrote: »

Yeah, that island full of radical Muslims sure got what was coming to them.....

That still perplexes me, why go after socialist kids? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Mr Benevolent

biko wrote: »

That still perplexes me, why go after socialist kids? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Shock tactics. Going after Muslims would have created enormous sympathy for the Muslim cause, which he didn't want at all. Basically a really good viral Youtube/Blog/Facebook campaign would have had a more useful effect. As it is his actions have had the opposite effect. I've read his manifesto and he's definitely sane. Waaaaay too sane, and that's a bad thing.

Some Scandinavian countries have gone from being huge power struggles a thousand years ago to meek, politically correct places when alcohol and fun is essentially banned. Combine a lot of immigration with a fairly passive aggressive attitude (I've lived in Sweden btw, I'm not pulling this out of my anterior orifice) and a growing neo-Nazi movement and this stuff becomes a matter of when rather than if. I don't condone his behaviour at all and I agree with immigration, but the friction in Scandanavia was fairly high even when I was there.

And all this because, according to Brevik, some Muslims beat up a friend of his. Talk about an overreaction. The one consolation is that once he's released from prison he'll be killed.

Duggy747

biko wrote: »

That still perplexes me, why go after socialist kids? It just doesn't make sense to me.

He maintains that these teens would grow up to have a role in politics which would take multiculturalism further and send Norway & Europe down the drain. They were the future of everything he detested.

Plus, it was a strategy that would shock the world to bring attention to him, his manuscript, and the so-called Knights Templar group.

That manuscript makes for some grim reading, definitely doesn't strike me as a man who's insane, rather quite intelligent but extremely cold.

biko

KeithAFC wrote: »

True. But there does seem to be a lot of people with similar type views as this guy in Europe like Italy as an example.

Indeed, but look at it this way. There are many people on the left that oppose current society/government. 99% are not violent.
There are also many people that want the British to leave Ireland, 99% are not violent.

You will always have people that hold certain values to various degrees, and most Europeans are not willing to kill for them thankfully.
However, a third of Muslims students in Britain thinks that killing a person that somehow attacks Islam is ok.

Although 53 per cent said that killing in the name of religion was never justified, compared with 94 per cent of non-Muslims, 32 per cent said that it was. Of these, 4 per cent said killing could be justified to "promote or preserve" religion, while 28 per cent said it was acceptable if that religion were under attack.

hooradiation

biko wrote: »

That still perplexes me, why go after socialist kids? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Because, and pardon the technical terms, he's an cowardly shithead.

MadYaker

Confab wrote: »

The one consolation is that once he's released from prison he'll be killed.

He will never be free. The longest sentence he can get may be 21 years but after that if he is still deemed a threat to society he can be detained indefinitely. Anyway I don't think he will ever go to prison. He'll be deemed insane and placed in psychiatric care for the rest of his life. If he is deemed insane then all his propaganda can be deemed the ravings of a lunatic and it will discredit his cause. If the court are smart that is what they will do.

Duggy747

Duggy747 wrote: »

That manuscript makes for some grim reading, definitely doesn't strike me as a man who's insane, rather quite intelligent but extremely cold.

Agreed, it is very well written but jesus there is a hell of a lot to digest in it.
If all that **** was in his head, it's no wonder he's not a rational person.

biko

Brevik has already become the new Godwin in political debates in Scandinavia.
"So you oppose mass immigration? Do you sympathise with Brevik????"

gubbie

Seems latest questions all revolve around this Knights Templar in London. Anyone believe it exists? Or do you think he's been reading too many Dan Brown books? Any Knights out there who want to confirm?!

Latchy

biko wrote: »

You will always have people that hold certain values to various degrees, and most Europeans are not willing to kill for them thankfully.
However, a third of Muslims students in Britain thinks that killing a person that somehow attacks Islam is ok.

Slightly off topic I know but I remember talking to an old british soldier who had been a part of the Normandy landings on D-Day 1944 and he remarked that '' on the beachs that day , there were English, Scots, Welsh ,Irish ,Canadian ,Americans and other allies ....but no Muslims''.

Now he was been slighlty tongue in cheek but his point in the main was that it was these men, from these countrys,who made that major breakthrough in the fight against tyranny happen ,which also led to the eventual freedom of Europe ,the same freedom in Europe that these Muslim students now have .They should always be reminded of this .

gubbie

gubbie wrote: »

Seems latest questions all revolve around this Knights Templar in London. Anyone believe it exists? Or do you think he's been reading too many Dan Brown books? Any Knights out there who want to confirm?!

I think you got it spot on, secret societies are probably what gives him the feeling of being special, even if his only has one member.

karma_

Latchy wrote: »

Slightly off topic I know but I remember talking to an old british soldier who had been a part of the Normandy landings on D-Day 1944 and he remarked that '' on the beachs that day , there were English, Scots, Welsh ,Irish ,Canadian ,Americans and other allies ....but no Muslims''.

Now he was been slighlty tongue in cheek but his point in the main was that it was these men, from these countrys,who made that major breakthrough in the fight against tyranny happen which also led to the eventual freedom of Europe ,the same freedom in Europe that these Muslim students now have .They should always be reminded of this .

There were probably no Black soldiers that day either, because the US military at the time segregated Black soldiers into their own regiments.

Also, few people know or care, but that day there were Asian, Black, Muslim and Indian soldiers in Normandy that day, they were all fighting for Germany though. So many in fact that a lot of Allied soldiers were shocked at their numbers.

leggo

That's ridiculous. People who make these arse-backward claims seem to forget that people from different cultures also pay tax into country's exchequers and provide essential jobs and services. Countries tend to have very little problem when a native of elsewhere brings great prosperity towards their country. Sure were we reminding Jason McAteer of the 1916 rising when he banged in the goal to beat Holland?

Latchy

karma_ wrote: »

There were probably no Black soldiers that day either, because the US military at the time segregated Black soldiers into their own regiments.

.

Black American GI soldiers were involved in the D-Day landings although they were not in the first wave to go in but they proved themselfs elsewhere in the battlefields of Europe .They didn't get the same recognition as their white fellow soldiers .

Also, few people know or care, but that day there were Asian, Black, Muslim and Indian soldiers in Normandy that day, they were all fighting for Germany though. So many in fact that a lot of Allied soldiers were shocked at their numbers

Of course there were as well as Russians and Croats ...they were slaves of Nazi Germany.