Anders Breivik - Norwegian Massacre

karma_

Latchy wrote: »

Of course there were as well as Russians and Croats ...they were slaves of Nazi Germany.

Not at all, there are varied reason why they were there, but slaves they were not.

In saying that, I don't think it's something we should throw in Muslims faces, it's not really surprising there were few fighting for the allies on that particular day. Many North African Muslims did fight for the allies, and in partisan militia in the Balkans.

Latchy

karma_ wrote: »

Not at all, there are varied reason why they were there, but slaves they were not.

Considering most of Europe was (prior to the invasion) under Nazi rule, a lot of these 'conscripts ' would have had little choice but others of course would have bought into the idology as well .

karma_

Latchy wrote: »

Considering most of Europe was (prior to the invasion) under Nazi rule, a lot of these 'conscripts ' would have had little choice but others of course would have bought into the idology as well .

I believe they were all volunteers, sure we even have a couple of documented cases of Irishmen fighting for the Nazis.

Latchy

karma_ wrote: »

I believe they were all volunteers, sure we even have a couple of documented cases of Irishmen fighting for the Nazis.

As you said ,there's always going to be some who go over to 'the other side ' for whatever reason they see fit .

Breivic said in his manifesto that '' there hasn't been proper democracy in Europe since Hitler was in power '' which tells you exactly where his head is at but in the real world of history , even if Hitler and co had succeeded, they would have had to accommodate millions of those Muslims around the world ..unless of couse they had another final solution in mind .

wes

There were Muslims fighting during World War 2. There were soldiers from the various colonies fighting in the various European armies.

There was a movie done about North African soldiers a few years ago:
Days of Glory

There were people from my mothers village in Kashmir, which back then was pretty remote (still remote even today), who were in the British army during World War 2. Honestly, I fail to see the relevance either way, in the context of a modern day far right politically motivated mass murder, by a man with a intense hatred of Muslims.

hooradiation

wes wrote: »

There were Muslims fighting during World War 2. There were soldiers from the various colonies fighting in the various European armies.

There was a movie done about North African soldiers a few years ago:
Days of Glory

There were people from my mothers village in Kashmir, which back then was pretty remote (still remote even today), who were in the British army during World War 2. Honestly, I fail to see the relevance either way, in the context of a far right politically motivated mass murder.

Because there's always room for making sure that we remind those dang Muslim ingrates how awesome we are and how terrible they've always been.
Regardless of the thread, topic or factual accuracy.

Latchy

Despite the hate for Breivicks ,his court appearences is showing the world including the muslim world how western style court justice systems works .

It's also great to hear that Abu Hamza is to be extradited to the USA where he will also expierence a version of western style justice .

wes

Latchy wrote: »

It's also great to hear that Abu Hamza is to be extradited to the USA where he will also expierence a version of western style justice .

There is no comparison between the US and Norwegan justice systems. Some of the people behind 9/11 still haven't been tried, and they will be tried in front of a military court if that even happens. Then there are the people who did nothing who were tortured and held for years.

If anything the way Norway is handling this, highlights the difference between various Western countries systems of justice.

Latchy

wes wrote: »

There is no comparison between the US and Norwegan justice systems.

I haven't seen the Norwegians complain against the American justice system or vice versa but yes ,they are different styles of justice .

Some of the people behind 9/11 still haven't been tried, and they will be tried in front of a military court if that even happens.

I think that has yet to be finalised as to weather it's a military of civilian court but it could be argued that 9/11 was a military operation carried out 'militants' ...as long as they get a fair trial ,that's all that's important

Then there are the people who did nothing who were tortured and held for years.

The world at large is aware of this and it was wrong that those people were treated like that under the Bush administration .

If anything the way Norway is handling this, highlights the difference between various Western countries systems of justice.

Yes and people like Breivik don't pop up every day in Norway or any other country to commit such a horrific act so the Norwegians are doing it their way which is to be admired, yes .

Napper Hawkins

In the highly unlikely scenario that this wonderful human being is freed, I give him about two days maximum before someone takes him out.

That is of course if he's not done while in prison.

wes

Latchy wrote: »

I haven't seen the Norwegians complain against the American justice system or vice versa but yes ,they are different styles of justice .

Yes, so the entire notion of Western justice doesn't make any sense, considering the differences.

Latchy wrote: »

I think that has yet to be finalised as to weather it's a military of civilian court but it could be argued that 9/11 was a military operation carried out 'militants' ...as long as they get a fair trial ,that's all that's important

The US has been rather insistent that they are terrorists, and as such they are criminals. This is how terrorists were generally treated before 9/11, and how Norway is treating Brevik, who actions could also be called a military operation if 9/11 is considered one.

Also, there is no way that a US miltary trial will be fair, due to torture that was carried out. Remember a lot of innocent people were also tortured along with some who are in all probablity guilty e.g. KSM, but the torture and years of being held without trial of people who did nothing, destroys any notion of the US system being "fair".

Latchy wrote: »

The world at large is aware of this and it was wrong that those people were treated like that under the Bush administration .

The world seeing it as wrong is rather worthless, as Bush etc got away with it scot free. Guantanmo is still open as well, so it isn't just Bush anymore. The current US admin can't claim innocence on this either.

Latchy wrote: »

Yes and people like Breivik don't pop up every day in Norway or any other country to commit such a horrific act so the Norwegians are doing it their way which is to be admired, yes .

Yes, Norway are doing things there way, and it is remarkably different to other countries. Norway's handling of things, will imho show the US etc who have tortured people (quite a few who were innocent), in much worse light, and will show that the West isn't really anything other than a convient short hand.

Da Shins Kelly

Interesting to see cracks appear in his façade in the questioning today. Those questions about the truth of his meetings with other Nationalist extremists seemed to annoy him quite a bit. He really doesn't seem to like being made out to be a liar or a fantasist. He did say that his "worst nightmare" would be to end up in a mental institute. He really wants to be taken seriously.

gubbie

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

In the highly unlikely scenario that this wonderful human being is freed, I give him about two days maximum before someone takes him out.

That is of course if he's not done while in prison.

I dunno... If Norway is anything like the UK, they'll give him a new identity, a new face and then ship him off somewhere. Like Maxine Carr.

Though at this moment the safest place for him is probably prison.

All these affiliations though, its very conspiracy theorist. It's as if he read on one of those horribly designed, flashing ads sites, "We the Knights Templar of the UK believe that other cultures are here to destroy us. Come and discuss it with the high Commander at 9:08pm" but then when he actually went along it turns out to be some guy and his girlfriend in creepy robes instead of this that he's making it out to be. He's embellishing.

crazygeryy

Is there any chance the mods would do a poll? Death penalty or not.id be interested on seeing the results.

biko

Tbh, Norway is a fantastic country and in many ways better that even other Scandinavian or European countries.
I really hope they don't **** this one up.

Btw, apparently he has got several things wrong.
Breivik says ethnic Norwegians will be a minority in Oslo sometime between 2018 and 2022.
According to the Norwegian Stats office that won't happen until 2040, 28 years from now.
http://www.thelocal.no/page/view/half-of-oslo-dwellers-immigrants-by-2040

In less than 30 years from now, 70 percent of the Norwegian capital’s first and second generation immigrants will have their roots in countries outside the 30-member European Economic Area, Statistics Norway said.

In the country as a whole, the immigrant population is expected to jump from 12 to 24 percent, or from 600,000 people today to 1.5 million in 2040.

Mint Sauce

The bloke is clearly a few short sandwiches off a picnic.

Have found some of it quite unsettling, both in his statement, and he seems to think people should be greatful to him, but on the other hand I cant help but think of the publicity he is getting from this.

Da Shins Kelly

irish-stew wrote: »

The bloke is clearly a few short sandwiches off a picnic.

Have found some of it quite unsettling, both in his statement, and he seems to think people should be greatful to him, but on the other hand I cant help but think of the publicity he is getting from this.

Apparently a lot of Norwegians feel the same. Was reading an article yesterday saying that a lot of people just wish that he would be sentenced and sent to prison, and that that should be the end of it. Obviously he has to get a trial, that's democracy, but the feeling seems to be that people are just sick of his ramblings and want to put the whole sorry affair behind them, and are also worried that a public trial is giving him a platform.

Sea Filly

This dude chills me to my very bones. *shudders*

martin kelly.

There is no chance this guy will ever be released.

Bobo78

Latchy wrote: »

Black American GI soldiers were involved in the D-Day landings although they were not in the first wave to go in but they proved themselfs elsewhere in the battlefields of Europe .They didn't get the same recognition as their white fellow soldiers .

Of course there were as well as Russians and Croats ...they were slaves of Nazi Germany.

That's actually incorrect, vast majority of Croats were the allies of Nazi Germans in Balkan occupation during second world war.

gubbie

Anyone else get a chill from this, at 40 seconds when he looks right down the camera...

http://news.sky.com/home/video/world-news/video/16210191

Imagine that as the last thing you see. Poor kids

Wattle

He sort of reminds me of Mark Chapman. An alienated weirdo who craves notoriety. C*nt seems to be enjoying himself. He comes across as spectacularly narcissistic. The best way of hurting him would be to completely write him out of history but sadly the enormity of the crime will ensure that we'll still be talking about him years from now.

Latchy

Bobo78 wrote: »

That's actually incorrect, vast majority of Croats were the allies of Nazi Germans in Balkan occupation during second world war.

In the sense that yes , they commited atrocities on equal par with anything their German partners could muster .Saying they were allies is like saying they sent their leaders over to Berlin and had some agreement with Hitler ... just like Mussolini did when in fact they were just tools to be used in the wider scheme of the Nazis desire to occupy the whole of Europe

Sea Filly wrote: »

This dude chills me to my very bones. *shudders*

100%

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I was reading an article yesterday saying that a lot of people just wish that he would be sentenced and sent to prison, and that that should be the end of it. Obviously he has to get a trial, that's democracy, but the feeling seems to be that people are just sick of his ramblings and want to put the whole sorry affair behind them, and are also worried that a public trial is giving him a platform.

In such a vomit churning way .This abomination and freak should be shut of away from society for all of his natural life , he's as good as dead anyway .

FouxDaFaFa

The worst punishment for this guy would be if the media didn't refer to him by name, but "the man accused of xyz" instead. Scrap the shots of his face at the trial for shots of the lawyers. Don't quote him, just relay events. "The defendant spoke briefly", etc.

It would kill him.

You couldn't be accused of censorship because you'd be reporting the facts but it would stop him getting off on how much coverage his words and gestures is getting.

The only reason he gave himself up on the island is so everyone would hear his ramblings. Deprive him of that.

(It will never happen but wouldn't that be great?)

Temptamperu

Norwegian Prison

http://www.odditycentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Halden-prison.jpg

http://www.odditycentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Halden-prison2.jpg

http://www.odditycentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Halden-prison4.jpg

Dear god.... well im of to Norway lads.

Latchy

Wattle wrote: »

He sort of reminds me of Mark Chapman. An alienated weirdo who craves notoriety. C*nt seems to be enjoying himself. He comes across as spectacularly narcissistic. The best way of hurting him would be to completely write him out of history but sadly the enormity of the crime will ensure that we'll still be talking about him years from now.

Would love to see the cnut step outside the prison for a day . They would be queueing up for miles to take him out .... and that's just the ones who want to say they killed the guy who killed the Beatle .

steelcityblues

Latchy wrote: »

Would love to see the cnut step outside the prison for a day . They would be queueing up for miles to take him out .... and that's just the ones who want to say they killed the guy who killed the Beatle .

As much as I loathe Chapman, it is amazing how many Lennon fans who say they believe in 'peace', admit they would like to kill him.

watna

Latchy wrote: »

Slightly off topic I know but I remember talking to an old british soldier who had been a part of the Normandy landings on D-Day 1944 and he remarked that '' on the beachs that day , there were English, Scots, Welsh ,Irish ,Canadian ,Americans and other allies ....but no Muslims''.

Now he was been slighlty tongue in cheek but his point in the main was that it was these men, from these countrys,who made that major breakthrough in the fight against tyranny happen ,which also led to the eventual freedom of Europe ,the same freedom in Europe that these Muslim students now have .They should always be reminded of this .

My OH's grandfather fought in the second world war - as a South African Indian and a Hindu he was not permitted to be part of the normal armed forces due to segregation. He drove an ambulance instead, along with a lot of other South African Indians, a lot of whom were muslim. I don't know if your argument entirely stacks up, given that men of other colours and creeds wanted to fight for their countries but couldn't. I'm obviously just talking about countries that are not mainly Muslim.

Latchy

steelcityblues wrote: »

As much as I loathe Chapman, it is amazing how many Lennon fans who say they believe in 'peace', admit they would like to kill him.

Well you don't have to be a John Lennon fan to say you would like ' world peace ' .Many people around the world such as , who never played a John Lennon record in their life would like world peace ( whatever way that peace manifestes itself on earth ) .If you had a son or daughter murdered, you might want to see the person responsible have their life ended to and you might not be to pushed as to who did it or how it was done .I think it's more the attraction of ' I killed the guy who killed the Beatle ' that would appeal to some more then others . Jack Ruby killed Lee Oswald but how many ordinary Americans horrified by the president's murder , thought in the heat of the event to go and do the same thing ? '' You can kill the dreamer (Lennon) but you can't kill the dream '' . Especially if world peace is something many people around the world (,regardless of their musical tastes ,religious and political beliefs ) would like to see happen ....but in this real world , you can't stop individuals wanting to kill other individuals or groups for whatever reason .

watna wrote: »

My OH's grandfather fought in the second world war - as a South African Indian and a Hindu he was not permitted to be part of the normal armed forces due to segregation. He drove an ambulance instead, along with a lot of other South African Indians, a lot of whom were muslim. I don't know if your argument entirely stacks up, given that men of other colours and creeds wanted to fight for their countries but couldn't. I'm obviously just talking about countries that are not mainly Muslim.

Obiously is you live in a country that is either occupied by invaders or your restricted in a way that dosen't allow you to vent freedoms of expression ,due to oppression or repression of your religious / political beliefs then you'll obiously tow the line ...or try and escape .

The liberation of Europe was achieved by joint coperation of allies and many other european countrys .The battles that were fought in Africa to defeat the same enemy also involved the participation of countrys and native tribes in that region .It was the same in Asia and and The Pacific, were Burmese ,Indian and Packistani forces ( other tribes) fought alongside the British ,American and Australian forces and many of those peoples would have benn Hindus and Muslim yes but the world was a different place and the Muslim culture v Western culture was not on the agenda back then , at least not in the military and political map of the world at the time .

.

gubbie

When I read that post saying that this would eventually turn into a second world war-nazi-hitler thread I was all like ppppfft whatever.

Now I'm like :eek: how did you know? (do it again! Say the nazis were stingy)

goodie2shoes

Wattle wrote: »

He sort of reminds me of Mark Chapman. An alienated weirdo who craves notoriety. C*nt seems to be enjoying himself. He comes across as spectacularly narcissistic. The best way of hurting him would be to completely write him out of history but sadly the enormity of the crime will ensure that we'll still be talking about him years from now.

agree. this is probably the only thing he's ever "achieved" in his entire saddo drop-out life.
he's lapping it up. narcissistic fool.
i believe it has been a big mistake to allow him "the oxygen of publicity" as that is what he craves.
they should have declared him insane and locked him in a padded cell for life, with a few muslim male nurses to keep an eye on him.

that said there is a morbid fascination from looking at & listening to the freak.:p

LH Pathe

Cool dude in teh dock eh, how to break him.. close his World of Warcraft account. Biggest slap he never got

RichieC

Wattle wrote: »

He sort of reminds me of Mark Chapman. An alienated weirdo who craves notoriety. C*nt seems to be enjoying himself. He comes across as spectacularly narcissistic. The best way of hurting him would be to completely write him out of history but sadly the enormity of the crime will ensure that we'll still be talking about him years from now.

Yes, and once the spot light is gone and all he has in front of him is his stretch, **** will get real dark for him. Then, the suffering begins.

Manic Moran

karma_ wrote: »

There were probably no Black soldiers that day either, because the US military at the time segregated Black soldiers into their own regiments.

The members of the 320th Anti-Aircraft Battalion would beg to differ on that one. They were the only black combat arms unit, granted, to be present at D-Day, but a number of logistical units were also around.



NTM

goodie2shoes

apparently Norway is no longer broadcasting his testimony which is good.
ignore the freak.:P

martin kelly.

Good done give him the attention he craves

SEPT 23 1989

I keep thinking of the drink Britvic when i hear this mans name

Wattle

RichieC wrote: »

Yes, and once the spot light is gone and all he has in front of him is his stretch, **** will get real dark for him. Then, the suffering begins.

Would part of the suffering come from remorse? I doubt it since this clown is as close minded as any true bigot. Apparently he said at the beginning of the trial that he was a 'writer' so maybe he's working on the follow-up to his manifesto. Then of course there will be people writing to him in prison and the question of what sort of reading material they allow him access to. I sincerely hope he does have a miserable time in prison but I don't think he's like you and me. He was completely calm when he was shooting all those kids in the head and he seems very calm now when faced with the prospect of the rest of his life in jail.

xflyer

He's calm about the prospect of life in jail mainly because he probably doesn't realise that once the trial is over. He will simply become prisoner XYZ. It's all fun and games for him now in the public eye. But no more than Manson or any other nutcase he'll be in prison forever, year after year to regret his actions. Long may he live in solitary. The longer the better.

The Norwegians are doing this right - more or less cutting off all publicity he could get. The Americans and British really could learn a thing or two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

Sea Filly

What an insult to the families of the victims that he claims it was self-defense. :mad::(

SChique00

Deleted User wrote: »

The Norwegians are doing this right - more or less cutting off all publicity he could get. The Americans and British really could learn a thing or two.

Agreed - only giving the sicko exactly what he craves the most - sure doesn't he describe the whole July atrocity as his way of "marketing" his ideals for abolishing multiculturalism? Since when did innocent kids threaten nationalism, for crying out loud?
And I don't believe he is insane, rather a calculated killer devoid of all regret for his actions, or sympathy for his victims - I reckon he's playing the insanity card to escape from a heftier sentence.
Definitely don't think the trial should be followed by the press; God knows how many more Breiviks are in the world right now, watching the coverage of the story or reading about it, and getting ready to polish up their Glocks for more attacks in support of that psycho.

M cebee

this fellow seems to be an awful clown altogether

duuno about the publicity-maybe it's showing him up for the dangerous buffoon he is?

RichieC

Wattle wrote: »

Would part of the suffering come from remorse? I doubt it since this clown is as close minded as any true bigot. Apparently he said at the beginning of the trial that he was a 'writer' so maybe he's working on the follow-up to his manifesto. Then of course there will be people writing to him in prison and the question of what sort of reading material they allow him access to. I sincerely hope he does have a miserable time in prison but I don't think he's like you and me. He was completely calm when he was shooting all those kids in the head and he seems very calm now when faced with the prospect of the rest of his life in jail.

Writer.. yea, I can write gooder than him.

It seems like the Norwegian court will be making their decision about Anders Breivik. I must say, I don't envy their position; if they find him guilty, he will be sentenced but could potentially run the risk of being released in 21 years. However, if they find him criminally insane, then he will be in a mental institute for the rest of his life, but will be found not guilty of his actions.

That's what it seems to me - I might be wrong.

c_man

Ha! The judge was caught playing solitare during the trial - http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/judge_caught_playing_solitaire_breivik_AtP9LzbBRoEPvm6jZxSpXL

crazygeryy

boneyarsebogman wrote: »

It seems like the Norwegian court will be making their decision about Anders Breivik. I must say, I don't envy their position; if they find him guilty, he will be sentenced but could potentially run the risk of being released in 21 years. However, if they find him criminally insane, then he will be in a mental institute for the rest of his life, but will be found not guilty of his actions.

That's what it seems to me - I might
be wrong.

Which one would be better?
Of the two id go for the criminally insane one.at least with that one he doesn't get out.

Jester252

crazygeryy wrote: »

Which one would be better?
Of the two id go for the criminally insane one.at least with that one he doesn't get out.

I agree with you. It would be better to have him locked up for the rest of his life then charge him and have him out in a couple of years where he might do it again

Ellis Dee

crazygeryy wrote: »

Which one would be better?
Of the two id go for the criminally insane one.at least with that one he doesn't get out.

It's actually hard to tell which one would be better, but I think on balance i'd like to see him declared criminally insane. That is because such a decision will undermine the arguments of all of the nasty, xenophobic, multiculturalism-hating, Islamophobic and generally thuggish parties that have recently gained seats in parliaments from Athens to Helsinki and from Amsterdam to Warsaw.

Breivik is only an extreme example of their inherent thuggishness and he has just done what many of them would do as well if they ever got real power.:(

It will be harder for them to turn him into some kind of cult hero if he is in a loony bin rather than playing the role of martyr in prison.

However, I don't think you need worry that he will be getting out either way. Although the maximum prison term in Norway is 21 years, he can still be detained indefinitely after that if the authorities believe he remains a danger to the public.

Besides, how long do you think he would last if he ever walked out of the prison gates?

Tabnabs

The trial concludes today and the verdict is out - Breivik is ruled sane (unanimous court decision) and sent to jail for 21 years. This, in his eyes, proves the legitimacy of his actions as he has merely broken laws for a regime he does not recognise and has not been ruled insane etc.