Intermittant Fasting

Antisocialiser

Started my IF cut 2 weeks into January and have gone from 82kg to 76kg. Just recalculated my macros:

Training day - 2400cal, Protein - 200g, Fat - 30g, Carbs - 330g
Rest day - 1500cal, Protein - 200g, Fat - 60g, Carbs - 40g

...I can nearly see an ab!

Ant11

will56 wrote: »

Can someone give me some advice regarding timings please.

I train at 6:30 in the morning 4 days a week so should I be looking to break my fast after training (8) and then start again at 4pm ?

Or can I leave it till later in the day to start eating so I can time my last meal for later ?

I do the same and don't break my fast till 12 most days.

helpme23

Sorry to barrage in on this thread but i have 2.I myself was going on the if dieting routine to lean out reduce bf.But like always they road to success is a rocky one.Wit having the flu it always sets me back and eating right go's straight out the window.And the stupid festivities of christmas got in the way.I was doing the 20/4 window so was eating from 2 until 6 was trying to get all my food in and protein accounted for.Was finding it hard enough but wasnt sure of a couple of things.When to eat after training ?I would train in the evening time after six.Or can i eat as much as i want with some forbidden foods since i was keeping such a long fasting gap.I did a lot off reading on it since last year and from what i see its the new way of getting results.Im not back yet because of stupid flu but want to get on this if system and do it right.Any tips advice.Sorry for jumping in .

Ant11

helpme23 wrote: »

Sorry to barrage in on this thread but i have 2.I myself was going on the if dieting routine to lean out reduce bf.But like always they road to success is a rocky one.Wit having the flu it always sets me back and eating right go's straight out the window.And the stupid festivities of christmas got in the way.I was doing the 20/4 window so was eating from 2 until 6 was trying to get all my food in and protein accounted for.Was finding it hard enough but wasnt sure of a couple of things.When to eat after training ?I would train in the evening time after six.Or can i eat as much as i want with some forbidden foods since i was keeping such a long fasting gap.I did a lot off reading on it since last year and from what i see its the new way of getting results.Im not back yet because of stupid flu but want to get on this if system and do it right.Any tips advice.Sorry for jumping in .

4 hour window seems a bit extreme, if your finding it hard why do it? Regarding eating after training: not being smart but the simplist answer is eat whenever you want or whenever suits you. Why don't you lengthen your window and fit it around your training or have 1 or 2 smaller pre workout meals and then your largest meal of the day after your training. Leangains gives a number of examples of different training times and how to work your window around it but IMO the best thing to do is pick a window that suits you.

helpme23

Yes indeed but that has to be concrete to be exact.I want a rapid speed in fat lost you could say but that window is small to start with i guess.And i agree with you for sue.But it is a we bit confusing with regards to training in a fasted state.Do you not consume the bulk of your calories straight after training is that not the best time to get your window started.????I could begin with maybe an 18/6 window.But were can you fit in training in a fasted state.Like early morning ?Then begin the window when finished.Or say forget training in a fasted state and begin your window at say 12 miday finish at 6.And train inside that window.Reschedule training times.?Does this matter when done like this.Because my uptake on intermittent fasting you only eat with in a certain time frame and thats it.So eating when your hungry doesnt make sense ?Am i wrong with this.?Fasting for 18 hours eating for six.And off course the diet should be spot on no matter what .?Yes/No

Cheers.

Ant11

helpme23 wrote: »

Yes indeed but that has to be concrete to be exact.I want a rapid speed in fat lost you could say but that window is small to start with i guess.And i agree with you for sue.But it is a we bit confusing with regards to training in a fasted state.Do you not consume the bulk of your calories straight after training is that not the best time to get your window started.????I could begin with maybe an 18/6 window.But were can you fit in training in a fasted state.Like early morning ?Then begin the window when finished.Or say forget training in a fasted state and begin your window at say 12 miday finish at 6.And train inside that window.Reschedule training times.?Does this matter when done like this.Because my uptake on intermittent fasting you only eat with in a certain time frame and thats it.So eating when your hungry doesnt make sense ?Am i wrong with this.?Fasting for 18 hours eating for six.And off course the diet should be spot on no matter what .?Yes/No

Cheers.

Read this: http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html?m=1

Fasted training is not possible for everyone. I dont think you will be able to train in a fasted state unless you move your training to the morning time. The link gives you examples of how to fit your window around various training times. Leangains advises to get about 60% of your intake post workout. So as I said in my previous post above, eat 1(40% meal) or 2(20% meals) smaller meals during the day before you train and then eat your biggest meal(approx 60%) PWO.

So if you began your window at 12 or 1 and finish it at 8 or 9 after you've trained or make it shorter if that's what you wana do. You are still getting the benefit of the fasted period of time whether you train fasted or not. At the end of the day your fat loss will be down to your calorie intake not how long you fast.

helpme23

Ok so forget the fasted training concentrate on meal planing ?Have a longer window to consume my meals and make my last meal the biggest meal which could be around 60% of my overall intake.AS for calories yes is it important to counting or not.Can or should i be consuming protein shakes.With say 3 meals inside a window.?Like you have said and it seems a whole more possible making the eating window longer and train inside it makes total sense.Cheers.

the drifter

77.8kg this morning...only down .1kg was hoping for more this week to be honest.

Dont find the hunger any more in the mornings.

Ant11

helpme23 wrote: »

Ok so forget the fasted training concentrate on meal planing ?Have a longer window to consume my meals and make my last meal the biggest meal which could be around 60% of my overall intake.AS for calories yes is it important to counting or not.Can or should i be consuming protein shakes.With say 3 meals inside a window.?Like you have said and it seems a whole more possible making the eating window longer and train inside it makes total sense.Cheers.

Track your calories to suit your goal cut/bulk etc. Use myfitnesspal to track your calorie intake. Here's a decent IF calculator for training day and rest day cals http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

Take protein shakes if you want to. I'd get my diet right first. If you don't get enough protein through food then I would add in protein shake.

Frank Bullitt

Have been trying the 5:2 diet, I find it ok and am down a kilo so far this week.

I did try the Leangains but I might not have given it enough time to be honest, it was odd to me eating that much food in one sitting, twice a day.

helpme23

The 5/2 or could you do a 3/4?As regards to getting that extra day fasting it still would be beneficial would it not.I checked out the calculator very good piece of equipment i must say.At the moment my training is slumped due to been sick and that.So im gunna get back on track come monday but unsure on what is the best diet protocol to go with.I like to lift 5 days a week.At the moment last few weeks have been bad because of flu etc.I know my diet is not dialed in at all at the minute so i need to get it spot on no matter what type of if i am going to go with.Any suggestions on what would be the best considering lifting 5 days a week.And also i am gunna start back with mixing some good cardio to boost my fitness and help aid some bodyfat.Maybe sprints and some long cardio sessions 3 times a week.

Bennybeau

helpme23 wrote: »

The 5/2 or could you do a 3/4?As regards to getting that extra day fasting it still would be beneficial would it not.I checked out the calculator very good piece of equipment i must say.At the moment my training is slumped due to been sick and that.So im gunna get back on track come monday but unsure on what is the best diet protocol to go with.I like to lift 5 days a week.At the moment last few weeks have been bad because of flu etc.I know my diet is not dialed in at all at the minute so i need to get it spot on no matter what type of if i am going to go with.Any suggestions on what would be the best considering lifting 5 days a week.And also i am gunna start back with mixing some good cardio to boost my fitness and help aid some bodyfat.Maybe sprints and some long cardio sessions 3 times a week.

I do 5/2 with two cheat days although on my cheat days I keep to a 16/8 fast eating from 10 to 6 at the weekends. On my normal days I fit my window around training so I will do a 18/6 fast mon wed and thur and a 16/8 on Tuesday and Friday so I can eat after football.

I have tried 4/3 and don't think it really works well enough for me. What I have outlined is manageable and with low carb intake on my 5 fasting days I am cutting well but the most important thing is not to go mad eating **** food on my two cheat days. The odd pizza or take away is fine in moderation, but not every weekend.

Dathai

Found this ages ago (and haven't used it).

It's a spreadsheet that calculates your macros and caloric requirements according to Leangains. Don't know how useful it will be, but thought I'd upload it anyway. There's also a lift tracker / planner as well, which I believe is based on the Leangains method (or whatever you want to call it).

Link to spreadsheet

RobAMerc

lads - I've done IF ( 16/8 )multiple times before and always found it easy and excellent way of cutting a bit of fat, but I've started back a few days now and I find myself craving rubbish for the full 8 hr window.

Any know reasons for this ?

Rob

Burkatron

RobAMerc wrote: »

lads - I've done IF ( 16/8 )multiple times before and always found it easy and excellent way of cutting a bit of fat, but I've started back a few days now and I find myself craving rubbish for the full 8 hr window.

Any know reasons for this ?

Rob

Just throwing things out there:
What's your vitamin,mineral, electrolyte intake like? Have you cut anything out that you wouldn't normally? Are you getting enough calories in your window?

RobAMerc

Burkatron wrote: »

Just throwing things out there:
What's your vitamin,mineral, electrolyte intake like? Have you cut anything out that you wouldn't normally? Are you getting enough calories in your window?

honestly I dont know. You may have hit something there. thanks

Tsipras

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/the-52-diet-uncontrolled-fasting-is-a-quick-way-to-poor-health-experts-warn/story-e6freuy9-1226595926923

i suppose a backlash was inevitable.. i've tried this diet to lower IGF1,I find it ok but I think i do crave crap food because of it

madma

Tsipras wrote: »

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/the-52-diet-uncontrolled-fasting-is-a-quick-way-to-poor-health-experts-warn/story-e6freuy9-1226595926923

i suppose a backlash was inevitable.. i've tried this diet to lower IGF1,I find it ok but I think i do crave crap food because of it

Whenever ive read up on the diet it always says 'eat what you for the 5 days' i dont understand why they cant reword that as id imagine loads think oh grand ill get a takeout or eat sweets etc etc. They should point out that you can eat up to your daily limit but eat as healthy as possible and include the usual health foods

xgtdec

Just a quick update from myself, for the last 2 weeks ive been on steroids (not that kind) and antibiotics that all need to be taken hours apart and with food, so my IF has stopped for the last 2 weeks while i get this done.

Now that im back having breakfast/lunch/dinner at "normal" times my saiety hormones are hitting the roof, while on IF i can do clean food week after week after week and food is never an issue. Now that im eating like a regular person my cravings are all back and im giving in to them....i guess somethies they get the better of you!!

I cant wait to get back to IF when these meds are finished....IF is most definetly what keeps me on the straight and narrow!!!

madma

bumpidy bump...

so how are people getting on these days? still doing it? finding it hard or easier?

Been doing it since last summer and find its much easier these days and look forward to it especially if had a bad weekend. instead of doing 2 x 24hr per week, ive switched to one 40-44hr fast and then a 20-24hr one later that week. I find the big one grand when i've had a good bit of food before starting it like after the weekend when usually id have eaten over the daily allowance sometimes way over cause of alcohol. this has been just the last while though, the last 2 weekends have been bad because of occasions. and here comes easter next :pac: im hoping to have a decent weekend though

Bennybeau

Going back to IF in the morning after the Easter break.
Like an earlier poster all my cravings were back. Potatoes chips chocolate coffee pastries etc. like a fool I have in to them too often. I have a lot of work to do. Also going off alcohol and hope to lose a stone in a month.
Watch this space.
All the best to anyone restarting or IF and also the die-hards who have been doing it for months

madma

Bennybeau wrote: »

Going back to IF in the morning after the Easter break.
Like an earlier poster all my cravings were back. Potatoes chips chocolate coffee pastries etc. like a fool I have in to them too often. I have a lot of work to do. Also going off alcohol and hope to lose a stone in a month.
Watch this space.
All the best to anyone restarting or IF and also the die-hards who have been doing it for months

best of luck, I'm in a similar stage as yourself I did have a really bad march but back on track now!

yeah defo give up the alcohol for a bit as you will get results quicker! I gave it up after last weekend so had none the weekend just gone and hopefully go most of april without any as it can easily knock you off track. I don't find its the drink I find the next day or even couple of days has me without much energy and not eating right. that's unless I don't have much of a hangover and im able to train the next day.

Chancer3001

started it, went unreal.

Lost my way totally.

Went TERRIBLY bad for a while.

trying to do 7/8 good solid weeks now

Ant11

Chancer3001 wrote: »

started it, went unreal.

Lost my way totally.

Went TERRIBLY bad for a while.

trying to do 7/8 good solid weeks now

How it go so bad, what windows were you using? 16/8 is so easy to follow, I don't even realize I'm doing it.

madma

Ant11 wrote: »

How it go so bad, what windows were you using? 16/8 is so easy to follow, I don't even realize I'm doing it.

same here, I don't even notice when im doing it these days, a good few say they fall off track don't how they do, even though id a bad month in march I I still kept up the 2 days per week fasting. it helped with not putting on weight

Chancer3001

not sticking with my windows. Eating crap during the windows.

Was doing 6 hour windows. 1pm - 7pm.

Great effects.

RobAMerc

Is one of the pillars of IF training while fasted or is that more of a leangains notion ?

Chancer3001

its not a pillar.

Not even a pillar of leangains.

You can train whenever you like.

ferike1

I've held a steady 87kgs for the past few months while eating loads of fruit and whatever. Tweaked my macros a bit and have already lost a 1kg in the past 2 weeks while being slightly indulgent on the weekends.

Bennybeau

madma wrote: »

best of luck, I'm in a similar stage as yourself I did have a really bad march but back on track now!

yeah defo give up the alcohol for a bit as you will get results quicker! I gave it up after last weekend so had none the weekend just gone and hopefully go most of april without any as it can easily knock you off track. I don't find its the drink I find the next day or even couple of days has me without much energy and not eating right. that's unless I don't have much of a hangover and im able to train the next day.

Totally agree. Even two days after a drinking session I'd find I'm in no mood to train.

Mellor

For the last while went from lifting 4 days a week to lifting 1 or 2 (plus my other training). At first I was able to maintain my lifts with reduce training but it got harder when I dropped down a weight division, towards the end I lost a little on some lifts. So to combat this, I decided to eat more on my lifting days. The last two weeks have been great so I'm going to stick with it for a while.
Although I arrived here on my own, the similarities with a Leangains +/- 20% are obvious, just without the 16/8hr format. Which is strange because I've just made weight, so recomp is ideal from here.
So basically im looking for any tips from anybody who follows +/-20% cals?

Plan is to lift tues morning and thurs evening. And eat a small surplus on both those days (9am to 9pm). Deficit on rest days. And other training will vary depend on how I feel.

Ant11

Mellor wrote: »

For the last while went from lifting 4 days a week to lifting 1 or 2 (plus my other training). At first I was able to maintain my lifts with reduce training but it got harder when I dropped down a weight division, towards the end I lost a little on some lifts. So to combat this, I decided to eat more on my lifting days. The last two weeks have been great so I'm going to stick with it for a while.
Although I arrived here on my own, the similarities with a Leangains +/- 20% are obvious, just without the 16/8hr format. Which is strange because I've just made weight, so recomp is ideal from here.
So basically im looking for any tips from anybody who follows +/-20% cals?

Plan is to lift tues morning and thurs evening. And eat a small surplus on both those days (9am to 9pm). Deficit on rest days. And other training will vary depend on how I feel.

To be honest I'm not sure you need any advise. Sounds like you know what your doing. I agree with the above, surplus on Tuesday n Thursday, deficit on rest and other training days will vary. That should keep you balanced over a week. if you notice weight up or down you will know whether you need to eat less or more.

Hanley

REALLY struggling to hack 18/6 this time. Removed my morning coffee with cream and am SERIOUSLY suffering...

Theresalwaysone

Hanley wrote: »

REALLY struggling to hack 18/6 this time. Removed my morning coffee with cream and am SERIOUSLY suffering...

Just no. Removing morning coffee is an awful idea...

I am a cranky **** at the best of times, take away my coffee and I will rip heads off.

Ant11

Is the coffee a habitual thing? Or do you actually need it?

I think on Leangains he says you can have tea with a tiny bit of milk and it will not break your fast. I assume the same goes for coffee. Don't quote me on that but I did read it somewhere.

Ant11

Hanley wrote: »

REALLY struggling to hack 18/6 this time. Removed my morning coffee with cream and am SERIOUSLY suffering...

6 hour eating window must be tough at your weight. I did it before taking in 3200cals, I wouldn't fancy the amount you have to eat in 6 hours.

Hanley

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Just no. Removing morning coffee is an awful idea...

I am a cranky **** at the best of times, take away my coffee and I will rip heads off.

Hahaha fact. I nearly went apocalyptic this morning because traffic sucked.

Ant11 wrote: »

Is the coffee a habitual thing? Or do you actually need it?

I think on Leangains he says you can have tea with a tiny bit of milk and it will not break your fast. I assume the same goes for coffee. Don't quote me on that but I did read it somewhere.

Ant, typically I get up at 5.30am, coaching 6.30am-8.30am and then tutor from 9am-1pm. My eating window is 11am to 5pm, after which I coach for 4-5 hours, and might even train during that period too. Suffice to say I'm running on empty by the time I "start" the day, and no other window would work to get the kcals in.

Hanley

Ant11 wrote: »

6 hour eating window must be tough at your weight. I did it before taking in 3200cals, I wouldn't fancy the amount you have to eat in 6 hours.

Try doing it while cutting

Ant11

Hanley wrote: »

Ant, typically I get up at 5.30am, coaching 6.30am-8.30am and then tutor from 9am-1pm. My eating window is 11am to 5pm, after which I coach for 4-5 hours, and might even train during that period too. Suffice to say I'm running on empty by the time I "start" the day, and no other window would work to get the kcals in.

Could you not lengthen your window to 8 hours and do 8:30/9 - 4:30/5? You could eat something quick before you start tutoring at 9 or do you want the 6 hour window for cutting?

Edit: just seen your cutting above.

Mellor

Ant11 wrote: »

To be honest I'm not sure you need any advise. Sounds like you know what your doing. I agree with the above, surplus on Tuesday n Thursday, deficit on rest and other training days will vary. That should keep you balanced over a week. if you notice weight up or down you will know whether you need to eat less or more.

I think I've a good grasp of it. I suppose the issue I want to avoid is getting too used to the surplus days and creating habits I on other days. The difference between the two days is 600-700. So I'm gonna throw in a protein shake for 200-300 cals. So I just need and easy 400. Extra meal?

Hanley

Ant11 wrote: »

Could you not lengthen your window to 8 hours and do 8:30/9 - 4:30/5? You could eat something quick before you start tutoring at 9 or do you want the 6 hour window for cutting?

Edit: just seen your cutting above.

I've always found that the sooner the fast is broken, the easier it is for things to fall apart.

Was trying to keep the coffee out so not as to disrupt cortisol release and aid fat burning, but it's just not worth it!!

Ant11

Mellor wrote: »

I think I've a good grasp of it. I suppose the issue I want to avoid is getting too used to the surplus days and creating habits I on other days. The difference between the two days is 600-700. So I'm gonna throw in a protein shake for 200-300 cals. So I just need and easy 400. Extra meal?

Sure you could throw anything you wanted into that shake to make up the extra cals and don't have it the other days and you should be fine.

Ant11

Hanley wrote: »

I've always found that the sooner the fast is broken, the easier it is for things to fall apart.

Yeah I agree, as soon as I break my fast I want to eat a big meal. Something small wouldn't be enough for me.

Was trying to keep the coffee out so not as to disrupt cortisol release and aid fat burning, but it's just not worth it!!

Yeah it's not worth it and let's face it you will still get to the bf% you want whether you have your coffee or not.

superfrank

Is the surplus on lifting days required? I’m trying to lose weight and build muscle but having 1800 cals on both rest AND lifting days.

The calculator says that I should be having 2200 cals on lifting days.

How important is the surplus to losing fat and gaining muscle?

RidleyRider

superfrank wrote: »

Is the surplus on lifting days required? I’m trying to lose weight and build muscle but having 1800 cals on both rest AND lifting days.

The calculator says that I should be having 2200 cals on lifting days.

How important is the surplus to losing fat and gaining muscle?

Why don't you just eat in a surplus, gain your muscle that you want and then get super shredded with IF?

Ant11

superfrank wrote: »

Is the surplus on lifting days required? I’m trying to lose weight and build muscle but having 1800 cals on both rest AND lifting days.

The calculator says that I should be having 2200 cals on lifting days.

How important is the surplus to losing fat and gaining muscle?

Cals seem v low. What weight are you?

To lose fat and built muscle is extremely difficult to do at the same time. Leangains calls this body recomp but also explains that's its a very slow process. IIRC he said that you should not do a recomp unless you are already lean and under 15bf% or maybe it was 12% bf can't remember which.

I think if you've a bit of bf to lose its best to do a cut first and lower your bf% and then do a slow bulk. That way you will be able to stay relatively lean while slowly bulking/building muscle.

ferike1

I am doing the body recomp at the moment! Working like a charm. I estimate I am eating at most 2.4k cals on training days

Ant11

ferike1 wrote: »

I am doing the body recomp at the moment! Working like a charm. I estimate I am eating at most 2.4k cals on training days

You already have plenty of muscle and your relatively lean and your cutting bf% slowly so your recomp will be a lot different to what super frank would have to do.

Hanley

ferike1 wrote: »

I am doing the body recomp at the moment! Working like a charm. I estimate I am eating at most 2.4k cals on training days

You're not far off 90kg? 2.4knis almost cutting level if so!

Ant11 wrote: »

Yeah it's not worth it and let's face it you will still get to the bf% you want whether you have your coffee or not.

Yeah that's it. May as well make it as easy as possible.

madma

for anyone wondering about coffee, I drink a couple of black coffee's on long fasts like 24hr-40hr if I do that. I switched back to doing 2 x 24hr this week as the 40hr is a bit extreme although I find it grand. I used to drink just water but I find the coffee a great boost and I read off a few different places that its actually helps boost fatloss during a fast. also having it without the milk ya don't need to worry about breaking the fast