Lord Mountcharles to set up distillery in Slane

syklops

Lord Mountcharles has announced he is building a distillery at Slane. He announced his plans on the John Murray show yesterday. You can find the podcast here.

Good news in my book.

The Hill Billy

Right folks - I've deleted quite a number of off-topic replies to the OP.

If you have a problem with titled anglo-irish ascendency folk - take it elsewhere.

Any more off-topic posts & I'll be back with the banhammer.

tHB

BeerNut

I hope they can pull it off. It's no easy feat getting through the red tape a distillery requires in Ireland.

The Hill Billy

celticbest banned for two weeks.

tHB

syklops

<Mod-snip>

I hope they can pull it off. It's no easy feat getting through the red tape a distillery requires in Ireland.

I think the planning will be the biggest step/block on them.

Its such a shame that unlike Scotland which has hundreds of distilleries, Ireland only has 3 and they are all owned by foreign companies.

Cavehill Red

This is a piqued response from Henry Mountcharles in the face of having lost Cooley as a source of whiskey for his brand. I personally doubt he has the financial capacity to fund a distillery through to the point where it would be making money.
Nevertheless, there is now a clear need for another distillery in Ireland to pick up independent bottling capacity.
If the law requiring very large stills was to be amended, it would facilitate an explosion of micro-distilling in this country, which would suit Henry's needs and that of quite a few others, including I suspect one or two of the craft brewers.
As I don't see that law changing soon, my gut feeling on this is that Henry will not develop a distillery.

BeerNut

Cavehill Red wrote: »

If the law requiring very large stills was to be amended, it would facilitate an explosion of micro-distilling in this country

Seems likely. If it were me I think I'd be using the publicity to lobby for that rather than promote a non-existent whiskey.

So is Slane Castle whiskey now defunct?

Cavehill Red

Henry's son, his co-partner in Slane Whiskey, is former IDL. IDL do supply a small number of independent bottlers. It is possible that they could do a deal to keep the brand going with IDL whiskey in the bottle. I don't know if this is a route being explored however, though it would seem to be prudent for them to do so.
If that doesn't come off, Bushmillls are unlikely to supply Slane, and Kilbeggan is also Beam owned, so in that case, yes, Slane would be at best off the market for a few years.
I'd love to see someone with a profile get behind a law change on distilling. The time is ripe for it now. The law was introduced to prevent poitin distillation (which we know doesn't really work, but in any case, interest in poitin is not what it was, and the problem is much lessened anyway.)
Personally, I'd like to see home distillation legalised as it is in New Zealand. But failing that, a reduction in minimum still capacity size would be great, as it would immediately green-light a raft of current micro-distilling pipe dreams across the country.

the beer revolu

I'm curious to know how Longueville House got a licence to distil in such small quantities.

BeerNut

IIRC, you may be able to bypass the size requirement with a court certificate, but only a short amount of time perusing the legislation here left me needing a stiff drink.

Cavehill Red

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'm curious to know how Longueville House got a licence to distil in such small quantities.

I'm unsure. It may be because they're not making whiskey, or because they obtained a court cert, or because they're breaking the law.

bamboozle

given the boom in irish whiskey sales worldwise and the distilleries rush to expand production capacity to match, i doubt they'll have the spare stock over the next few years to supply whiskey for own label sales.

The time is ripe for these archiac laws to be changed.

Brockagh

The original law, I believe, was to stop portable stills. I talked to customs officials who did not think the still size would be much of a problem. Kilbeggan's stills aren't that big either, although they're over the minimum size.

A few distillery plans have fallen by the wayside over the last ten years or so - Coola Mills and Cloonaughill. It was risky when they were being planned, but if they had got off the ground, they'd have big advantage over the ones being planned today.

Setting up the distillery in original buildings would save on money, but I saw a breakdown of the cost of distilling for Bladnoch, and one batch is big money. All a bit of a gamble, given the time it takes whiskey to mature.

Maybe he could get the Teelings on board. I'm sure they're planning something.

Cavehill Red

John Teeling would be my best guess for the next Irish distillery (apart from those already past the dreaming stage, ie Dingle and Peter Lavery.)

bamboozle

Cavehill Red wrote: »

John Teeling would be my best guess for the next Irish distillery (apart from those already past the dreaming stage, ie Dingle and Peter Lavery.)

I'd be surprised if the Beam deal didnt perclude the Teeling family in becoming involved in a new distillary for at least a few years.

Still the time is ideal for a new distillery. Despite the set-up costs i'm sure a decent business man would have little trouble raising funds and attracting shareholders through the BES schemes etc

syklops

bamboozle wrote: »

Still the time is ideal for a new distillery. Despite the set-up costs i'm sure a decent business man would have little trouble raising funds and attracting shareholders through the BES schemes etc

Easier said then done. Raising capital for something like this is not easy at all. Its still seen as a risk by many(mostly because they dont understand it), and so for the most part the only people who take a risk are people who want to do it not for the money but for the end result or to add something to their heritage. Its a shame.

bamboozle

syklops wrote: »

Easier said then done. Raising capital for something like this is not easy at all. Its still seen as a risk by many(mostly because they dont understand it), and so for the most part the only people who take a risk are people who want to do it not for the money but for the end result or to add something to their heritage. Its a shame.

i see your point but take the BES scheme for example, this was party how Cooley was funded, using Cooley as an example would be a (relatively) easy way to sell a new distillery to BES investors with cash.

syklops

bamboozle wrote: »

i see your point but take the BES scheme for example, this was party how Cooley was funded, using Cooley as an example would be a (relatively) easy way to sell a new distillery to BES investors with cash.

If you can find me some BES investors, I will introduce them to some people trying to get distilleries, not just for whiskey but for other things off the ground.

bamboozle

syklops wrote: »

If you can find me some BES investors, I will introduce them to some people trying to get distilleries, not just for whiskey but for other things off the ground.

wel for starters

http://www.bes.ie/

Davy's 2011 BES scheme has 3m to invest for starters. This will be followed by a 2012 scheme with similar amounts to invest.

http://www.bes.ie/investor-information/default.asp

syklops

bamboozle wrote: »

wel for starters

http://www.bes.ie/

Davy's 2011 BES scheme has 3m to invest for starters. This will be followed by a 2012 scheme with similar amounts to invest.

http://www.bes.ie/investor-information/default.asp

3M? How much do you think a distillery needs to get up and running? Considering unlike most businesses, you dont get any kind of income at all for 3-4 years. Buy or lease site, build buildings, hire staff and pay them for 3+ years, buy ingredients, bottles, etc.

Sorry, I am not being negative on purpose, I know from near first hand experience, that you can have a site ready to go, and Charlie McCreevy can be shaking your hand and the IDa is taking you to lunch, but until someone comes along with great big wads of cash, the project can't get off the ground.

irish_goat

Can a whiskey distillery make other spirits that don't require 3+ years e.g. vodka during the initial maturation stage? Or is it too different a process?

bamboozle

syklops wrote: »

3M? How much do you think a distillery needs to get up and running? Considering unlike most businesses, you dont get any kind of income at all for 3-4 years. Buy or lease site, build buildings, hire staff and pay them for 3+ years, buy ingredients, bottles, etc.

Sorry, I am not being negative on purpose, I know from near first hand experience, that you can have a site ready to go, and Charlie McCreevy can be shaking your hand and the IDa is taking you to lunch, but until someone comes along with great big wads of cash, the project can't get off the ground.

didnt think i needed a business plan ready to back up my comments :rolleyes:

like i said for starters there's the BES schemes, the big 4 audit firms have wealth management departments with wealthy clients with money to invest, Davy, Goodbody and the other brokerages will have clients with money to invest.

With the attention the sale of Cooley made, the attraction of investing in a new distillery would i presume be quiet positive at the moment.

Brockagh

bamboozle wrote: »

I'd be surprised if the Beam deal didnt perclude the Teeling family in becoming involved in a new distillary for at least a few years.

Still the time is ideal for a new distillery. Despite the set-up costs i'm sure a decent business man would have little trouble raising funds and attracting shareholders through the BES schemes etc

Can the preclude a whole family from getting involved in a new distillery? I don't know the details of the deal and usually this is the case, of course. It could be that Beam have nothing to fear from a startup distillery.

syklops

bamboozle wrote: »

didnt think i needed a business plan ready to back up my comments :rolleyes:

like i said for starters there's the BES schemes, the big 4 audit firms have wealth management departments with wealthy clients with money to invest, Davy, Goodbody and the other brokerages will have clients with money to invest.

With the attention the sale of Cooley made, the attraction of investing in a new distillery would i presume be quiet positive at the moment.

Sorry, I wasnt getting at you. I just happen to know about 3 different people who are trying to build distilleries or who have tried in the past and they have not found anyone to invest. I wasn't just being difficult.

Can a whiskey distillery make other spirits that don't require 3+ years e.g. vodka during the initial maturation stage?

Yes you can, a lot of companies do that. AFAIK, HLM is not planning to do that though.

Cavehill Red

Brockagh wrote: »

Can the preclude a whole family from getting involved in a new distillery? I don't know the details of the deal and usually this is the case, of course. It could be that Beam have nothing to fear from a startup distillery.

Speaking strictly hypothetically, non-competitive clauses in such deals usually have time limits. There is also a significant lead-in time to producing whiskey. Think of identifying a suitable site, getting PP, licence, architectural work, construction, ordering and construction of stills, and you're a couple of years in already at a minimum before anything rolls off the still.
Follow that up with three years waiting for the first whiskey to mature, and that's at least five years to produce the youngest possible whiskey. Non-competitive clauses in many cases would have, by that stage, expired.
Also, I entirely concur with you that Beam have nothing to fear from a startup, nor do Bushmills nor IDL. None of them are quaking in their boots about Grant's large plans for Tullamore, so why should they fear a much smaller operation working to come online over a longer timeframe, were such to occur?

n97 mini

irish_goat wrote: »

Can a whiskey distillery make other spirits that don't require 3+ years e.g. vodka during the initial maturation stage?

Yes, which can be used in "Irish cream" (i.e. Bailey's type things) etc.

The only way Longueville House can be sidestepping the distillation legislation is to do the distilling in another country.

the beer revolu

n97 mini wrote: »

The only way Longueville House can be sidestepping the distillation legislation is to do the distilling in another country.

Nope, they distil onsite in Mallow.

Brockagh

Or you can make gin, all sorts of stuff. Most of the new distilleries sell unmatured whisky. British Spirit or white dog, raw whiskey, poitin... Not whiskey yet, but lots of people are interested in it. Usually for over-the-top prices.

Brockagh

Glenfiddich or Glenlivet also have a tiny still that they got special permission to use. More a tourist thing or a demonstration. Can't really remember.

Cavehill Red

Brockagh wrote: »

Glenfiddich or Glenlivet also have a tiny still that they got special permission to use. More a tourist thing or a demonstration. Can't really remember.

So have Loch Ewe, but they went through horror to get the licence, and that's in a different jurisdiction in any case.

Brockagh

Distilleries don't have to be fancy, look at Abhainn Dearg. I'll fish out some pictures of that one. A distillery in a shed.

And there's the Smogen distillery in Sweden. Not sure of the spelling. Very small operations.

Of course there's all the other costs, for staff, grain, energy, bond, insurance... It's certainly something a brewery could do. Beamish would be ideal...

I priced stills a few years ago for about 50k. I'm sure you could do better than that.

Lots and lots of risks involved, of course.

Edit: Here's that picture...

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/22/d0/be/abhainn-dearg.jpg