EU grant for bigot marches

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

O I just want you to try and be a bit more forthright.

How charming from a self confessed supporter of the Provo's.

Cavehill Red

Nodin wrote: »

O I just want you to try and be a bit more forthright.

In fairness, he's already been very upfront with his hypocritical bigotry on the thread.

ejmaztec

The pot-kettle thread.:pac:

Dubhlinner

Auvers wrote: »

yeah right, a fraternity who picks a particular religious group and enshrines it in their constitution, ah they are only poor misunderstood souls :pac:


"Constitution, Laws and Ordinances of the Loyal Orange Institution of Ireland" (1967) state, "No person who at any time has been a Roman Catholic … shall be admitted into the Institution, except after permission given by a vote of seventy five per cent of the members present founded on testimonials of good character …"

Do you think its bigoted that the Catholic church only lets Catholics join?

Its obviously not. So neither is it when a Protestant religious organisation only lets Prods join

Cavehill Red wrote: »

It is in their constitution to prohibit attendance of Catholic churches under any circumstances. Where members of the OO do so and get away with it, that's what's happpened - they've got away with it. The Order rules require them to be removed. It's a demonstrably bigoted organisation, and anyone arguing otherwise ought to remind themselves by viewing footage of any of the many anti-Catholic speeches made at 12th July parades each year, by examining the facepainting of 'Kill All Taigs' on children accompanying the marches, or indeed the Loyalist terror banners of certain flute bands which march.

The speeches are anti catholic in a doctrinal sense. They are reformists after all. The other things you've mentioned there are due to hatred in the loyalist communities

Were the orange order to disappear tomorrow the loyalist bands and those hateful supporters with the KAT slogans you mention would go on. I'd speculate the membership for the order is reflective of hatred rather than its cause

Also what you've left out of the thread is this 900K is not for marches. Its for Protestant victims of the troubles.

Personally I don't think it a good idea to distribute these grants along religious lines. However for whatever reason they're doing it I think the OO would probably be the best group to use for managing the fund. If it were done by the borough councils it would become a political nightmare.

You won't see any objection to this from SF I suspect. Afterall the EU fund the IRA museum in south armagh.

Really is a shame the SDLP aren't the main nationalist party.

Morlar

awec wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion that Cavehill Red is a windup merchant, and a pretty good one at that. :pac:

No he is not. By a coincidence I was thinking the same thing about you.

steddyeddy

LordSutch wrote: »

No, I think the EU aid for the Orange Order is long overdue, as it will help to drag their marches out of their narrow bigoted audience, to (trasnsform) and deliver them to a much wider cross community audience, which seems to be happening already. Just think of modern Orange Order marches as mini Notting Hill carnivals )

You just single handedly pointed out the hypocrisy of the orange order.

frag420

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Would they not stick to funding roads?

For marching on??

Nodin

awec wrote: »

Yes it is. He said look at the pictures.

Did you look at the pictures?

Nice attempt at dodging the question too.

There are pictures from at least 3 rallies by 3 different organisations there...the one referred to in the text was the main sinn fein commemoration. That one would be "my cup of tea".

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

How charming from a self confessed supporter of the Provo's.

Yep....which means I'm rather 'forthright' about it.....you've a point?

Auvers

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Do you think its bigoted that the Catholic church only lets Catholics join?

dunno ain't a Catholic, but the debate was about the Orange order being a bigoted organisation, and I believe they are

Cavehill Red

Dubhlinner wrote: »

The speeches are anti catholic in a doctrinal sense. They are reformists after all.

The Methodist church are reformists and genuinely doctrinally so. Yet you don't hear anything anti-Catholic out of them. Only the Free Presbyterians, of any doctrinally reformed organisation, ever utter anything that could be construed as anti-Catholic bigotry and even then only rarely, and usually Vatican-directed, not aimed at their neighbours. The OO are not a religious organisation or church. They are, as they were founded to be, a hate-driven mob.

Dubhlinner wrote: »

The other things you've mentioned there are due to hatred in the loyalist communities

Were the orange order to disappear tomorrow the loyalist bands and those hateful supporters with the KAT slogans you mention would go on. I'd speculate the membership for the order is reflective of hatred rather than its cause

Possibly. But the problem is that the OO provides a fulcrum and focus for gathering the hatred together in one place, stirring it up and giving it a sense of legitimacy and heritage. To grant-aid the OO is a despicable act by the EU. It will give the hatemongers a sense of supranational endorsement of their bigotry.

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Also what you've left out of the thread is this 900K is not for marches. Its for Protestant victims of the troubles.

The OO is a marching organisation. What has it ever done for victims? Nothing. They have no tradition nor skillset in victim care. If the money was truly aimed at victims, there is no shortage of state, semi-state and private charities it could have been diverted to.

LordSutch

steddyeddy wrote: »

You just single handedly pointed out the hypocrisy of the orange order.

YES, exactly! I am no supporter of the Orange Order, but as I said in post#42 the EU funding will insure their appeal to a wider cross community audience (hopefully).

Cavehill Red

awec wrote: »

Nah, he definitely is. There is no way anyone really thinks like that. He was good at the start of the thread but got a bit too ahead of himself the last few pages.

A worthy effort because he fooled me initially! :pac:

You think I'm trolling you? You're welcome to come up to my Belfast address and sit in the house all day this July and experience proper trolling then. Six hours of drums and flutes and intimidation, with the threat of drunken violence when they return. Then you'll know trolling.

awec

Nodin wrote: »

There are pictures from at least 3 rallies by 3 different organisations there...the one referred to in the text was the main sinn fein commemoration. That one would be "my cup of tea".

Fair enough, at least you're honest.

Auvers

awec wrote: »

Do you live smack bang in Belfast City Centre or something? 6 hours, I think not.

think again

Cavehill Red

awec wrote: »

:pac:

When I saw your username, I assumed straight away you were a Cliftonville fan, and guessed that you are originally from Belfast. I'm guessing the Ardoyne or the New Lodge. One of the 2.

Do you live smack bang in Belfast City Centre or something? 6 hours, I think not.

I am a Cliftonville fan, and I am originally from Belfast, with family living in both those areas and others besides.
You'll understand why I don't give out my address on the internet.

Gummy Panda

Is there no way we could use explosives to seperate northern Ireland and set it adrift?

steddyeddy

LordSutch wrote: »

YES, exactly! I am no supporter of the Orange Order, but as I said in post#42 the EU funding will insure their appeal to a wider cross community audience (hopefully).

For an organization that bans members from marrying members of the other big religion in the north? Surely their cutting down their member potential right there?

Auvers

awec wrote: »

Perhaps you could tell me what housing estate it takes the parade 6 hours to pass by?

try the barricades \ police \ parade = over six hours

drunken scum from both sides looking for trouble afterwards

Cavehill Red

awec wrote: »

Oh of course, I didn't mean for you to post up where you live. I was being rhetorical there.

Fair enough. There are plenty of residential districts across the whole of the North where Catholics (and unsupportive Protestants, and those of other or no religion) are forced to endure six hours marching past their house on the 12th July,

NiallFH

The Stepping Towards Reconciliation in Positive Engagement (Stripe) project will be based in Lurgan, Co Armagh.

Thats where I fecking live, they are never done parading here, if this leads to even more of that ****e I will be pissed, can't get through the damn town when they're at it.

Article is a load of tripe, they are never done covering the place in flags, parading and they are talking about engaging in the wider community. All they do is alienate people with their behaviour.

I'm not a catholic so as far as religion is concerned I dont care, I'm Atheist, but I really don't see how them recieving this money is justified.

Few years back they complained about a parade organised by a youth centre for primary school children for St Patricks day and it was cancelled, yet its all well and good for them to parade all the bloody time.

LordSutch

steddyeddy wrote: »

For an organization that bans members from marrying members of the other big religion in the north? Surely their cutting down their member potential right there?

I am presuming that the EU funding comittee have done their homework, with a view that future Orange Order marches will cease to be sectarian in nature! and more like what I describe in post#42.

problemchimp

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Is there no way we could use explosives to seperate northern Ireland and set it adrift?

Good intelligent input there, that's the answer all along. Why didn't we think of that in 1969. Jesus wept!






Sorry, a bit harsh. After Hours after all.

Mr Benevolent

problemchimp wrote: »

Good intelligent input there, that's the answer all along. Why didn't we think of that in 1969. Jesus wept!

Actually, the US considered creating a huge canal in the 60s using nuclear weapons.

Captain Darling

Apple bastards!!!

Cavehill Red

LordSutch wrote: »

I am presuming that the EU funding comittee have done their homework, with a view that future Orange Order marches will cease to be sectarian in nature! and more like what I describe in post#42.

To assist you in distinguishing between the two:

The Notting Hill Carnival:

http://accentblogs.com/london/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/41608986_notting_hill_getty_416.jpg

Orange march:

http://photosales.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/cache/beltel/9c/8e/11/2735b9f2287621aedce43e5698.jpg

Captain Darling

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Is there no way we could use explosives to seperate northern Ireland and set it adrift?

They tried that for a good few years. Didnt work.

Canis Lupus

problemchimp wrote: »

Good intelligent input there, that's the answer all along. Why didn't we think of that in 1969. Jesus wept!

We could give all the unemployed people shovels and set them to digging if that would be more practical?

LordSutch

Cavehill Red wrote: »

To assist you in distinguishing between the two:

Orange march:

http://photosales.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/cache/beltel/9c/8e/11/2735b9f2287621aedce43e5698.jpg

Thats an ugly picture, possibly from the Drumcree stand-off? and as I say, I am no supporter of the Orange Order, but hopefully with the new proposed EU funding, their marches will become more colourful and less secterian/bigoted.

john why

Where the hell is keith

Cavehill Red

Sad to see the neo-partitionists out in force here, as if the problems of Northern Ireland didn't actually stem from the freedom from sectarianism that they enjoy as a result of corralling the problem in six counties and then abnegating responsibility.
Like it or not, plenty of your fellow Irish citizens live on the other side of that border, and regularly suffer the bigotry that independence (and the subsequent shameful driving of Southern Protestants out of the state) freed you from.
No one likes the sectarian nature of the North, least of all those who have to live there and experience it. Not even the bigots causing it, whose ethnic-cleansing dreams of homogeneity trigger most of the problems in the first place.
But it would be nice for a change to see Southern citizens show some fellow feeling for their Northern counterparts, by trying to understand the difficulties experienced in the six counties, and accepting that they cannot, anymore than the British can, wash their hands of a problem they had a hand in creating.

problemchimp

john why wrote: »

Where the hell is keith

He's fukced off with all the money, coke and hookers!

LordSutch

john why wrote: »

Where the hell is keith

I wish he'd bloody well hurry up, I'm here at the barracades all by myself, surrounded by hoards of indians

Cavehill Red

john why wrote: »

Where the hell is keith

Flute band practice?

suicide_circus

So the Orange Order is in fact a bastion of tolerance, fairness, inclusivity and cultural understanding which promotes cross community bridge building, integration and togetherness building a better Northern Ireland for people from all sides of the population. So much so that the EU deem it necessary to give them money to further their utopian cause. Seems legit.

suicide_circus

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Flute band practice?

I believe he blows an exquisite flute.

Coillte_Bhoy

john why wrote: »

Where the hell is keith

...

El Siglo

In fairness, the EU funds a lot of projects for both sides of the community. Either fund them all or fund none of them.

I personally don't like the 12th of July or really the two weeks surrounding this date. Belfast shuts down, nothing gets done and the atmosphere isn't great regardless of religious background.

Morlar

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

...

KeithAFC Lost a bet to Bobbysands1981 about Celtic v Rangers ?

Oh, man, that's like the perfect storm.

tfitzgerald

Maybe with all their money they will buy the drumcree route and solve the little problem they have walking that route

Nodin

El Siglo wrote: »

In fairness, the EU funds a lot of projects for both sides of the community. Either fund them all or fund none of them.

I personally don't like the 12th of July or really the two weeks surrounding this date. Belfast shuts down, nothing gets done and the atmosphere isn't great regardless of religious background.

Not as bad as it was say 10-15 years ago though.

kowloon

It wouldn't be so bad if the marches weren't so rubbish.

Mardy Bum

Those Sash Gordon images must be fooling the EU.

HavingCrack

Nice to see what the EU is spending money on these days, honestly, the Orange Order of all organisations. Presumably they'll start dishing it out to all the nasty bigots around Europe if they aren't already.

TheDoc

awec wrote: »

How exactly is it a bigot organisation? On what basis do you have to throw that accusation at them?

To me, it sounds like the only one being intolerable here is you.

High horse much?

The fact the EU are providing nearly 1 million Euro to an organisation that regularly organises marches to generate tension and grow aggression amount communities in the north.

I'm not doing your research for you, do it yourself, there is plenty about to pinpoint and highlight the very much shadowy figures and invidiuals associated with this organisation.

Granted the opposite faction dont rub them self in glory much either, I fear if you need explanation as to why it would be frowned upon that this organisation receives and EU grant, well then wow.

I'd be less concerned if the money was provided as relocation fees

LordSutch

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd be less concerned if the money was provided as relocation fees, to help move its members over to England, where they belong.

Not Scotland?

Noreen1

I'd have no problem with the 900,000 being awarded to victims of the troubles, Protestant or Catholic.

However, the OO, by its own rules, promotes bigotry and divisiveness.
That is not to say that every member of the OO is a bigot, but the events organised by the Order are a platform for bigotry, and continuing hatred.

Therefore, I can only wonder if those who awarded the money ever read the History of Northern Ireland - or even bothered to read any Newspapers about the 12th "celebrations".:mad:

If they had to award the money - couldn't they, as a bare minimum, insist that anti-Catholic rules, re being born a Catholic, attending funerals etc. were changed? They are, after all, discriminatory to the Catholic population.
For those who say these rules are not enforced - I would assume that there is no objection to removing them, then?

forfuxsake

The OP is ridiculous. As an openly gay black Polish Catholic member of the Orange Order I can confirm that it is no way bigoted at all!

woodoo

suicide_circus wrote: »

I believe he blows an exquisite flute.

The skin whistle

.
.
.
.
.
Just joshing chief

pragmatic1

awec wrote: »

How exactly is it a bigot organisation? On what basis do you have to throw that accusation at them?

To me, it sounds like the only one being intolerable here is you.

You're not serious are you?