Why are vets so expensive...

Irishchick

http://www.askavetquestion.com/why-are-vets-so-expensive.php

The above article may help to dispel some of the myths people seem to believe about veterinarians and bills.

Enjoy.

Discodog

It a pity that it's an American article as the situation may be very different here. I think that a lot of people feel that Vet costs have escalated. Some of this may be because of the development of advanced procedures that wouldn't be considered in the past. Is there also a link with Pet Insurance ?

PaulieBoy

I have to say my vet is fairly priced for what he does. He even opens on a Sunday and price is same as any other day. Go find a doctor open on a Sunday and be ready to hit the deck at the price he would charge!!
Not all vets are expensive!

Irishchick

The situation is exactly the same (vets here do the same procedures and use the same equipment). Just dollars instead of euro's.

I think its more of an advancement thing than an insurance thing. 20 years ago no one would have even considered chemotherapy or orthopaedic work for a pet.

Diagnostic tools have also advanced beyond belief and with advancement comes expense (buying and servicing equipment)

Discodog

Irishchick wrote: »

I think its more of an advancement thing than an insurance thing. 20 years ago no one would have even considered chemotherapy or orthopaedic work for a pet.

But insurance money allows many of those procedures to go ahead. Would they of developed without insurance companies picking up the bill ?

There will always be disquiet, we hear the same thing with doctors, that the cost increases if an insurance company is paying.

Wibbs

PaulieBoy wrote: »

Not all vets are expensive!

Very true.

Irishchick wrote: »

I think its more of an advancement thing than an insurance thing. 20 years ago no one would have even considered chemotherapy or orthopaedic work for a pet.

Dunno about that. In the early 80's our family dog got cancer and was treated with an operation and chemo. I've no doubt it happens now much more often, but it wasn't unknown then either(he also broke his leg and needed an operation to have a pin inserted).

Discodog wrote: »

There will always be disquiet, we hear the same thing with doctors, that the cost increases if an insurance company is paying.

There certainly seems to be a correlation alright. The notion of pet insurance 20 years ago would have been met with a "huh?". If you take something like multiple yearly vaccinations that are required if you want insurance, even though the "science" behind the viral ones is seriously dubious there is an element of one hand appearing to wash the other. The appearance of branded dry dog food another example of the commercialisation of the profession. Again with dubious science behind it as very few vets have much of a clue about animal nutrition in the first place, instead relying on commercial interests to tell them. I've had two vets tell me that giving dogs raw bones is bad for them(one actually said disastrous). Yet both had teeth cleaning doggie chews on sale. Or the other chestnut of too much protein is bad for dogs. Yes, protein is bad for an apex carnivore... :rolleyes: Even stuff like dogs need lots of (usually cheap grain based)roughage. Dunno where the hell they pull that one from either. BTW I am not one of these Rawfood faddists.

Zapperzy

5 years ago I would have complained about the seemingly high cost of vet bills. Now I would complain they are too low! Think about the service you are being offered, you walk in with a lame dog in the morning, drop him off, he could have bloods done and results back in 10 minutes, x rays done, bandage put on and he could be home in the evening time with a packet of pills. If that were a human you'd probably have to get an appointment for next week (if my doctor is anything to go by), wait a week for blood results and wait to get an appointment for x rays 2 weeks later.

Everything in that article is a 100% true, everything in a practice costs a small fortune and then there's the upkeep and running costs. Vets (especially new graduates) are undervalued and overworked, if they work in a mixed practice their normal every day car is never clean and gets a serious amount of wear and tear (if your in the market for a car never buy a vet's old car, even if it says one lady owner ). They could work a normal working day plus be on call 2 or 3 nights a week plus a weekend on top of being expected to be in bright and early the next morning. And it's not all puppies and kittens and giving the odd injection, large animal work is physically hard, strenous work in a tough dangerous environment. You get injured often, next time your in a vets have a look at their hands and arms, normally covered in cuts, scratches and wounds. And of course not to forget nurses, we're underpaid and do a hell of a lot of work, we spend 3/4 years in college and most of the time your animal is in the vets it is being seen to and nursed by us.

Second to farmers, vets have the highest levels of suicide among a profession. Just thought that was an interesting fact to to show the level of stress they can be put under. Any of the vets I know are hard working, honest people who live in regular sized houses and drive normal every day cars so you can rest assured your €50 isin't going towards a new bmw or house extension!

CruiseH

How about vet discount programs, instead of pet insurance?

falabo

I find vets in Ireland reasonnably priced ! Maybe they are expensive in Dublin but again rent is very expensive in Dublin

I went to the vet for a dog last week, not being herself at all, one visit, one injection and tablets for the week: €41.50

This is cheaper than a doctor for humans BEFORE any medication

kylith

I don't think vets are too expensive. I had Rani there this morning: €63 for an examination, two injections, a course of antibiotics, and a tube of canigest. As the person above me said, it's cheaper than going to a human doctor just to get a prescription renewed.

planetX

I think they are terribly expensive for the everyday things - 50 euro to microchip a cat:eek: for check ups and vaccinations too. For serious issues the value is better, and I have no doubt that I paid less for a surgery because I didn't have pet insurance.
If you have multiple pets it's definitely worth negotiating a discount...

Discodog

kylith wrote: »

I don't think vets are too expensive. I had Rani there this morning: €63 for an examination, two injections, a course of antibiotics, and a tube of canigest. As the person above me said, it's cheaper than going to a human doctor just to get a prescription renewed.

This seem very cheap.

planetX wrote: »

I think they are terribly expensive for the everyday things - 50 euro to microchip a cat f

That's extortionate.

lolo62

kylith wrote: »

I don't think vets are too expensive. I had Rani there this morning: €63 for an examination, two injections, a course of antibiotics, and a tube of canigest. As the person above me said, it's cheaper than going to a human doctor just to get a prescription renewed.

hey kylith im in inchicore do you mind pm your vet?

Wailin

Zapperzy wrote: »

5 years ago I would have complained about the seemingly high cost of vet bills. Now I would complain they are too low! Think about the service you are being offered, you walk in with a lame dog in the morning, drop him off, he could have bloods done and results back in 10 minutes, x rays done, bandage put on and he could be home in the evening time with a packet of pills. If that were a human you'd probably have to get an appointment for next week (if my doctor is anything to go by), wait a week for blood results and wait to get an appointment for x rays 2 weeks later.

Everything in that article is a 100% true, everything in a practice costs a small fortune and then there's the upkeep and running costs. Vets (especially new graduates) are undervalued and overworked, if they work in a mixed practice their normal every day car is never clean and gets a serious amount of wear and tear (if your in the market for a car never buy a vet's old car, even if it says one lady owner ). They could work a normal working day plus be on call 2 or 3 nights a week plus a weekend on top of being expected to be in bright and early the next morning. And it's not all puppies and kittens and giving the odd injection, large animal work is physically hard, strenous work in a tough dangerous environment. You get injured often, next time your in a vets have a look at their hands and arms, normally covered in cuts, scratches and wounds. And of course not to forget nurses, we're underpaid and do a hell of a lot of work, we spend 3/4 years in college and most of the time your animal is in the vets it is being seen to and nursed by us.

Second to farmers, vets have the highest levels of suicide among a profession. Just thought that was an interesting fact to to show the level of stress they can be put under. Any of the vets I know are hard working, honest people who live in regular sized houses and drive normal every day cars so you can rest assured your €50 isin't going towards a new bmw or house extension!

Would you happen to be a vet by any chance trying to justify the hugely excessive costs? Almost 100 euro just to get your animal vaccinated when you can buy the vaccinations and do it yourself for less than 15 euro. Some vets are much cheaper than others in my experience and if they can make a living charging less then it is obvious that those charging high prices are just in it to make money and not about caring for the animals. Not all vets are like this and most people in my area travel an hour to see a vet rather than the local one because it is obvious he only thinks of the animals welfare rather than screwing the owner of everything in his pocket.

Magenta

Wailin wrote: »

Would you happen to be a vet by any chance trying to justify the hugely excessive costs? Almost 100 euro just to get your animal vaccinated when you can buy the vaccinations and do it yourself for less than 15 euro.

The vet spent 5 years in university learning how to inject animals amongst countless other procedures. You didn't. That doesn't include his rent, his staff's wages, his equipment, etc.

A vet is running a business, not a charity. I cannot understand why people will happily pay 500 euro for the latest phone that was made dirt cheap in China, but complain about a vet trying to recoup his/her costs and make a profit.

Wailin

Magenta wrote: »

The vet spent 5 years in university learning how to inject animals amongst countless other procedures. You didn't. That doesn't include his rent, his staff's wages, his equipment, etc.

A vet is running a business, not a charity. I cannot understand why people will happily pay 500 euro for the latest phone that was made dirt cheap in China, but complain about a vet trying to recoup his/her costs and make a profit.

Did you read the rest of my post? Why is there such a difference in vet prices across the board? If some vets charge 30-40 euro for vaccination and others charge over 80 euro for the same service surely something is wrong somewhere.

Delancey

Wailin wrote: »

Did you read the rest of my post? Why is there such a difference in vet prices across the board? If some vets charge 30-40 euro for vaccination and others charge over 80 euro for the same service surely something is wrong somewhere.

Location has probably a lot to do with it , higher rent = higher costs , just like any profession really.
Overall Irish vets are good value - ask any American what xyz procedure costs and prepare to be shocked. Closer to home : IMO vets are a lot more expensive in the UK , but if you are in London ( ie. within the M25 ) then prepare for eye watering bills for what I consider routine stuff.

Delancey

Magenta wrote: »

A vet is running a business, not a charity. I cannot understand why people will happily pay 500 euro for the latest phone that was made dirt cheap in China, but complain about a vet trying to recoup his/her costs and make a profit.

People can be so irrational when it comes to their priorities , the 500 quid phone is a great example.
Another good example is weddings - we regularly hear of couples spending 20 grand and upwards on the ' big day ' , sadly marriages do fail and these are the same people who bitch about a Solicitor charging them 200 per hour for a professional consultation to try and extract them from the mess they are now in - the mind boggles :eek:

Discodog

Delancey wrote: »

Location has probably a lot to do with it , higher rent = higher costs , just like any profession really.
Overall Irish vets are good value - ask any American what xyz procedure costs and prepare to be shocked. Closer to home : IMO vets are a lot more expensive in the UK , but if you are in London ( ie. within the M25 ) then prepare for eye watering bills for what I consider routine stuff.

Competition should reduce prices but there is always this underlying feeling that Vets might just raise their prices in line with a competitor. Many clients really value the relationship with their Vet & they trust their opinion. So they might be reluctant to go somewhere cheaper.

Because it is rare for cases to be the same it is hard to do comparisons. Maybe it should be compulsory for Vets to have a "menu" of prices on display for agreed standard procedures.

tk123

Discodog wrote: »

Many clients really value the relationship with their Vet & they trust their opinion. So they might be reluctant to go somewhere cheaper.

^THIS.
Our vets has a reputation of being expensive in our area but honestly the care and support we've gotten there - I couldn't ask for more tbh. My vet arranged a second opinion for me, called when we brought my dog home just to ask how he was doing and let me know to call if there was any problems, we've been over a good few times and haven't been charged, she trusts my judgement with him but is there when I need support etc etc.

planetX

I'd been using the same vet for 15+ years, and was very happy with them, knew all the staff, but they have really put their prices up. Now I hop around to whichever vet is cheapest on the day, and that's sad because I would rather stick with one. Needs must.

Discodog

Another problem is that, unless you are having repeat treatments, it is hard to know if prices have gone up or down.

Maybe we have a divide where those on insurance don't worry about the cost & this may drive prices up. But at the same time the pressures of the recession are making the rest price concious.

Millem

Some vets charge for consultation plus vaccinations, some only charge for vaccinations. I have found that vets down the country are cheaper than Dublin
Especially for products e.g flea/tick €15 cheaper for a three pack in my case. I do buy my flea/wormers online now. At the end of the day I don't begrudge my vet. He has higher rents to pay. They will actually ring me to check how the dog is. If you think about it they are cheaper than the doctor.

Aru

Wailin wrote: »

Would you happen to be a vet by any chance trying to justify the hugely excessive costs? Almost 100 euro just to get your animal vaccinated when you can buy the vaccinations and do it yourself for less than 15 euro. Some vets are much cheaper than others in my experience and if they can make a living charging less then it is obvious that those charging high prices are just in it to make money and not about caring for the animals. Not all vets are like this and most people in my area travel an hour to see a vet rather than the local one because it is obvious he only thinks of the animals welfare rather than screwing the owner of everything in his pocket.

You can do the vaccines yourself for 15 euro but if you give them into a blood vessel and end up with a (thankfully extremely rare) life threatening reaction to the drug do you have the facilities on hand to save your animal?

Have you the equipment and skill to pass an endotracheal tube so your dog can breath if its throat constricts as it goes into an anaphylactic reaction? Do you have the drugs available to stop the reaction?
Because a vet will have either in their practice or in their car..and they will have the knowledge to assess what is happening and treat before the dog is in serious trouble....
Thankfully vaccine reactions are extremely rare and making sure your not in a blood vessel etc reduces the odds but the difference between being at home and in a practice if one happen could be significant....

Good quality medicine is expensive but its usually not unreasonable and to be honest our costs of vet practice are nothing compared to in America.There bills sometimes work in thousands where we do similar procedures for hundreds...the suing culture and the fact that new vets graduate with loans more then an average mortgage and repayments of approx 1000 a month means they are on a very different scale to here. They need to have a business to pay back their education we are lucky enough over here that its not the case so vets salaries are much lower and the costs stay lower accordingly.

Yes the prices vary depending on the region..but they are not usually that drastically different.Most vets operate on a loss on basic elective operations like a neuter its simply a way to get new customers and keep up with local competition.They have to make money they are a business if you dont generate income you will not survive.

Plus if you want to know whats wrong with an animal you do generally have to spend money....vets dont have laser eyes they can only tell so much by a history and a clinical exam.A lot of issues thankfully can be picked up using the experience and indepth knowledge of disease's and presentations..but in some cases where dogs are sick there are so many possibilities with different treatments and outcomes that more tests will be needed to find out exactly what is wrong....

planetX

Aru wrote: »

Yes the prices vary depending on the region..but they are not usually that drastically different.Most vets operate on a loss on basic elective operations like a neuter its simply a way to get new customers and keep up with local competition.They have to make money they are a business if you dont generate income you will not survive.

But they can be drastically different - I had 3 animals neutered recently and there was a 150 euro difference between vets.
I think the overcharging on routine things like vaccines is probably to subsidise the more expensive procedures, and I can see the point of it, but it's no good when the price difference is so great that they lose their regular customers. The arguments that it's cheaper than other countries, cheaper than a new phone etc are no good when it's a question of whether you can even bring the animal to a vet at all.

Zapperzy

Wailin wrote: »

Would you happen to be a vet by any chance trying to justify the hugely excessive costs? Almost 100 euro just to get your animal vaccinated when you can buy the vaccinations and do it yourself for less than 15 euro. Some vets are much cheaper than others in my experience and if they can make a living charging less then it is obvious that those charging high prices are just in it to make money and not about caring for the animals. Not all vets are like this and most people in my area travel an hour to see a vet rather than the local one because it is obvious he only thinks of the animals welfare rather than screwing the owner of everything in his pocket.

No I'm not a vet, I'm a student vet nurse and I'm currently not working or affiliated with any practice, I'm just telling it how it is from my own experience both as a client and from the inside.

Vet practices are a business, apart from the few clinics run by charities if every vet practice were to operate like a charity we wouldn't have any. Like any business some practices are able to operate cheaper while others have higher overhead costs so therefore higher fees. Maybe these cheaper ones are cutting corners somewhere while the more expensive ones have higher quality equipment. I'm not able to speak for every practice in the country, I'm sure there are a few with extortionate high prices and the owner driving a new bmw every year but I haven't seen this myself yet.
For instance the practice I bring my dog to is cheap for vaccinations, so far that's all he's needed a vet for, but her practice is in a part of her house, she has no blood machines, no x-ray, no nurses and everything is all very basic.

Wailin wrote: »

Did you read the rest of my post? Why is there such a difference in vet prices across the board? If some vets charge 30-40 euro for vaccination and others charge over 80 euro for the same service surely something is wrong somewhere.

Again overheads. You can vaccinate yourself but do you know your doing it properly, also vaccines need to be kept chilled, if left in a warm car for an hour you may as well be injecting water. You also don't get the vet's signature and stamp on the card, some kennels can be fussy about it and won't allow your dog in. Would also wonder about insurance companies, could they deny payment if found you had vaccinated yourself?

ABajaninCork

Delancey wrote: »

Location has probably a lot to do with it , higher rent = higher costs , just like any profession really.
Overall Irish vets are good value - ask any American what xyz procedure costs and prepare to be shocked. Closer to home : IMO vets are a lot more expensive in the UK , but if you are in London ( ie. within the M25 ) then prepare for eye watering bills for what I consider routine stuff.

Believe me, what the vet charges here is NOTHING compared to what I used to pay for my cat in London. I took him in to have a lump removed. Vet took the opportunity to remove three of his teeth at the same time. Without consulting me, I hasten to add. Bill came to £612!!!eek: I spent about £1200 in nine months before I brought him over here.

He also had the neck to charge me for some special post-op food which I didn't ask for as I had already bought some coley for the cat's dinner as part of his light diet.

I think my (Irish) vet is good value for money. You want expertise in treating your pet? Then you have to pay for it, I'm afraid.