I'd Like To say A BIG Thankyou Your Majesty

44leto

Zebra3 wrote: »

Because of the behaviour of a handful of unhung traitors. :mad:

If FG and Lab had any balls, they'd call a referendum and ask the people to vote on paying back private debts.

If the people vote against repaying those private loans, the governemnt tells the foreign banks to shove it.

You cannot have a fair society when you are expecting the taxpayer to foot the bill for private losses. The banks, after all, weren't complaining when they were making huge profits.

F**k them.

We were all culpable with our celtic tiger madness and we can contemplate that in our conservatories and decking in the typical Mediterranean Irish climate.

And those private losses now are all mortgage defaults. So it is down to us.
If you have a twinkling of an understanding of economics and our present exchequer borrowing requirements you would then realise a default is simply not an option.

We will get another EMF/ECB bailout and we will eventually default. Lets hope I am very wrong. Otherwise its Greece or Argentina for Ireland for the next 20 years.

NinjaK

Fratton Fred wrote: »

for money that YOU blew.

why do have YOU in capitals? I never took out a bank loan in my life:rolleyes:
The likes of you like to blame the Irish people when it was the elite who caused this mess.

Fratton Fred

NinjaK wrote: »

why do have YOU in capitals? I never took out a bank loan in my life:rolleyes:
The likes of you like to blame the Irish people when it was the elite who caused this mess.

Irish elite.

Why should the British tax payer pay for a mess created in Ireland?

SEPT 23 1989

They need us and we need them

get over it

donegal_road

it doesn't matter, it will go straight back to UK via the fking banks... unless of course, it is put straight into the government coffers, and how do we know if it has or not? non story

COYW

NinjaK wrote: »

what you lot fawning over the Brits dont realize is that they are just giving us money so we can pay back THEIR banks.

That money paid for the houses people live in or the welfare they are getting to live off.

Zebra3

44leto wrote: »

We were all culpable with our celtic tiger madness and we can contemplate that in our conservatories and decking in the typical Mediterranean Irish climate.

Speak for yourself. I pay my mortgage and all my bills.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Irish elite.

Why should the British tax payer pay for a mess created in Ireland?

The mess was created between the Irish, British and European elites. When the average Irish person was being raped with skyhigh house prices, all the elite were happy.

Now that it's crashed, the average Irish person is expected to foot the bill for the losses of private institutions?

Private Irish banks made huge mistakes lending too much, as did British, French and German banks.

They are not my problem and should have been let fail. That's how capitalism works.

No taxpayer of any country should have been made to hand over huge sums of money to keep those corrupt institutions afloat.

COYW

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Irish elite.

Why should the British tax payer pay for a mess created in Ireland?

My relations over there, Irish born who emigrated are livid over "paying for a big Irish p1ss-up", as they call it. I totally agree with them. The very people that are whinging about this loan, from our good neighbours, are probably the same people who are in personal debt up to their eyeballs.

donegal_road

COYW wrote: »

My relations over there, Irish born who emigrated are livid over "paying for a big Irish p1ss-up", as they call it. I totally agree with them. The very people that are whinging about this loan, from our good neighbours, are probably the same people who are in personal debt up to their eyeballs.

I'll say it again, this money will probably go straight into the banks to fatten up their balance sheets. The public will not see one red cent of this. The same happened 2 years ago when the Irish government gave the Irish banks 9 billion of taxpayers money, to help balance their mortgage books. The banks kept the money, and continued to pursue struggling homeowners for mortgage arrears * sorry, going off topic here*

NinjaK

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Irish elite.

Why should the British tax payer pay for a mess created in Ireland?

When did I say they should??

Zebra3

COYW wrote: »

My relations over there, Irish born who emigrated are livid over "paying for a big Irish p1ss-up", as they call it. I totally agree with them. The very people that are whinging about this loan, from our good neighbours, are probably the same people who are in personal debt up to their eyeballs.

Well, your relations are idiots who have no idea what's going on.

People have their own personal debt to deal with from their own decisions/mistakes they have made.

However, the taxpayer should not be footing the bills for the mistakes of private companies (i.e. the banks).

Is there any other private debts we should be paying or just the banks?

Fratton Fred

Zebra3 wrote: »

Well, your relations are idiots who have no idea what's going on.

People have their own personal debt to deal with from their own decisions/mistakes they have made.

However, the taxpayer should not be footing the bills for the mistakes of private companies (i.e. the banks).

Is there any other private debts we should be paying or just the banks?

unfortunately it is never that simple.

if some of the banks are allowed to fail, it will have an impact on the average joe. Pension funds would be affected, private savers could lose thier life savings etc. Sure, the fat cats benefit out of this more than anyone, but a failed big bank would be a disaster.

anyway, back to the loan, I'm pretty sure it is up to the Irish government how they spend it, but from a UK perspective Ireland is important from several aspects.

Ulsterbank is now a British state owned bank (in effect) and I am sure the British government would like to see that returned back to profit so it can sell it off and recoup some of it's money.

The default position for a lot of people in this country (myself included) is if you can't find a job in Ireland, look in the UK. This has a detrimental affect on the unemployment figures in the UK, which is never good for a government. Especially one trailing in the polls.

lastly, anyone noticed the amount of Honda Civics, Nissan Qasqais, Nissan Jukes and Toyota Avensis on the roads in Ireland, where do you think they come from. The car industry in the UK is helping to prop up the economy at the moment.

AEDIC

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Well, now we can keep the Irish economy going through paying back some more of the billions of euro in losses of the British financial institutions who gambled on the "Celtic Tiger".

Only in Ireland could people have such a low sense of national self-esteem (not to mention political knowledge) that they are grateful for a loan from the British state to pay back British institutional gamblers in Ireland. Yes, gamblers.

So much for the Irish trying to get away from the "thick Paddy" stereotype when some Irish think a rational state like the British one is giving money to the Irish state out of something other than sheer self-interest. Incredibly stupid, irrational thinking.

Thats a great point...lets give it back then. Surely the current govt that we voted in (well someone did) agree with you and will have sent it back already with a polite 'no thank you' message.

:rolleyes:

Frank Black

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

This thread stinks of self-loathing west brit.

NinjaK wrote: »

Standard boards.ie thread then.

Hardly, the smell of Shinner off this place is generally the over-riding stench.

Doc Ruby

Spook_ie wrote: »

I think it's an incredibly generous gesture to offer their errant colony a subsidised loan, perhaps you need a to inject yourselve with a dose of something if you're going to hang around AH

I think its fairly obvious from the Irish blowing the brits out of the country and the subsequent immediate collapse of the empire who was more important in fairness. Not for nothing do a majority of US presidents make it their business to visit this country.

On the subject of the loan, do think for a minute about that word... LOAN. Its a loan with a high interest rate which must be paid back. Its a profitable business transaction, no more and no less, which many other EU countries have also engaged in with Ireland. No favours were done in the process.

The trumpeting of the loan as some sort of special dispensation among the gutter press in the UK and the BNP heads really underlines how weak their grasp on their own national self image must be, if they need to resort to blatant falsehoods to reinforce it.

Doc Ruby

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The default position for a lot of people in this country (myself included) is if you can't find a job in Ireland, look in the UK.

Only the ones that can't afford a plane ticket to Australia and the US, which is to say almost nobody.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

lastly, anyone noticed the amount of Honda Civics, Nissan Qasqais, Nissan Jukes and Toyota Avensis on the roads in Ireland, where do you think they come from.

Japan and Korea? That's where the profits go anyway.

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Only the ones that can't afford a plane ticket to Australia and the US, which is to say almost nobody.


Japan and Korea? That's where the profits go anyway.

Haters gonna hate :rolleyes:

Zebra3

Fratton Fred wrote: »

unfortunately it is never that simple.

if some of the banks are allowed to fail, it will have an impact on the average joe. Pension funds would be affected, private savers could lose thier life savings etc. Sure, the fat cats benefit out of this more than anyone, but a failed big bank would be a disaster.

The banks not being allowed to fail is a disaster.

What it means is that all of society is being hit to ensure that those with money don't lose out.

It's a bailout for the better off in society.

Sound of Silence

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why should the British tax payer pay for a mess created in Ireland?

...A few posts later.

anyway, back to the loan, I'm pretty sure it is up to the Irish government how they spend it, but from a UK perspective Ireland is important from several aspects

Apparently you answered your own question.

Regardless, having partially nationalised Northern Rock, Bradford & Bingley, RBS, and Lloyds Banking Group, I'm sure George Osborne would feel a lingering responsibility to secure the Irish financial sector - with British Banks being heavily invested to the tune of almost £140 Billion.

lastly, anyone noticed the amount of Honda Civics, Nissan Qasqais, Nissan Jukes and Toyota Avensis on the roads in Ireland, where do you think they come from. The car industry in the UK is helping to prop up the economy at the moment

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. Not only are they not British companies, but to my knowledge they don't even have factories based in the Country.

saywhatyousee

We did not get a cent from British taxpayers we got a loan from the Bank of England private organisation.

Fratton Fred

Sound of Silence wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. Not only are they not British companies, but to my knowledge they don't even have factories based in the Country.

Honda have a massive plant in Swindon, Toyota are in Derby and Nissan in Sunderland. The car industry employs 150,000 in direct manufacturing and those three account for the vast majority of those jobs.

summerskin

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Spook_ie wrote: »

I think it's an incredibly generous gesture to offer their errant colony a subsidised loan, perhaps you need a to inject yourselve with a dose of something if you're going to hang around AH

I think its fairly obvious from the Irish blowing the brits out of the country and the subsequent immediate collapse of the empire who was more important in fairness. Not for nothing do a majority of US presidents make it their business to visit this country.

On the subject of the loan, do think for a minute about that word... LOAN. Its a loan with a high interest rate which must be paid back. Its a profitable business transaction, no more and no less, which many other EU countries have also engaged in with Ireland. No favours were done in the process.

The trumpeting of the loan as some sort of special dispensation among the gutter press in the UK and the BNP heads really underlines how weak their grasp on their own national self image must be, if they need to resort to blatant falsehoods to reinforce it.

You're either deluded or stupid if you think Ireland is more important globally than the UK.

Presidents visit to get the vote from the diaspora.


Also you said the only Irish in the uk were the ones who couldn't afford to go to Australia or the US. Absolute Shiite. About ten times more Irish move to the uk each year than anywhere else. You all love the English hospitality I guess...

Doc Ruby

summerskin wrote: »

You're either deluded or stupid if you think Ireland is more important globally than the UK.

Presidents visit to get the vote from the diaspora.

So if we slap our thinkin' hat on our heads for about three seconds, we reach the conclusion that the state of Ireland is important to a powerful section of the people who get decide who the most powerful man in the world is this time round.

Personally I'm shocked the UK hasn't been folded back into its mother country, France, by now, what with their disastrous levels of debt and the general incompetence which has characterised their government.

summerskin wrote: »

Also you said the only Irish in the uk were the ones who couldn't afford to go to Australia or the US. Absolute Shiite. About ten times more Irish move to the uk each year than anywhere else. You all love the English hospitality I guess...

Obviously you have facts to support your assertion? Or are you just confused in Clare?

Frank Black

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Obviously you have facts to support your assertion? Or are you just confused in Clare?

about 40,000 Irish citizens emigrated in 2011, over 16,000 of these went to the UK.

Doc Ruby

black francis wrote: »

about 40,000 Irish citizens emigrated in 2011, over 16,000 of these went to the UK.

a) source and b) that's still a minority. I'd look it up myself but I really couldn't give a fuck.

Frank Black

Doc Ruby wrote: »

a) source and b) that's still a minority. I'd look it up myself but I really couldn't give a fuck.

No point giving you a source so.

Doc Ruby

black francis wrote: »

No point giving you a source so.

Ah no go on, it will take you less time than the back and forth with me laughing at your numbers on boards.

InReality

44leto wrote: »

We were all culpable with our celtic tiger madness and we can contemplate that in our conservatories and decking in the typical Mediterranean Irish climate.

And those private losses now are all mortgage defaults. So it is down to us.
If you have a twinkling of an understanding of economics and our present exchequer borrowing requirements you would then realise a default is simply not an option.

We will get another EMF/ECB bailout and we will eventually default. Lets hope I am very wrong. Otherwise its Greece or Argentina for Ireland for the next 20 years.

Eh ? I say default now , get it over with , get some certainty about our situation.

I know behind closed doors the idea is to default later.

Won't defaulting later = "ruin our reputation , no one will lend to us etc " ,

Dostoevsky

Fratton Fred wrote: »

for money that YOU blew.

Correction: that they, these British businesses, blew. Like their German and French socio-economic brothers-in-arms, they took the risk. They lost. Their state is now intervening in that dreadful misnomer the "free market" to shore up these businesses.

The losses of these so-called capitalists are being socialised. We, the ordinary people, are paying their corporate gambling debts. Socialism has been trumped by corporate socialism.

Dostoevsky

black francis wrote: »

about 40,000 Irish citizens emigrated in 2011, over 16,000 of these went to the UK.

Once again, isn't it wonderful to note that Britain is giving employment to these people out of a sense of sympathy with the Irish, that the entire thing is not shaped by the rational economic needs of the British state, just as economic needs shaped Irish acceptance of immigrants to Ireland before. We should, it seems, be grateful to people in Britain who are clearly making a profit from the labour of these Irish people.

It's consistently extraordinary how British actions in history from Mullaghmast to the modern day seem, for some people, to be a history of "helping" other people with rational self-interest having no place in this narrative.

paddyandy

Yes for continuing good neighbours .

44leto

InReality wrote: »

Eh ? I say default now , get it over with , get some certainty about our situation.

I know behind closed doors the idea is to default later.

Won't defaulting later = "ruin our reputation , no one will lend to us etc " ,

That's is not how it works, you can default on your mortgage but you still have the debt.

We will default because we have to we will have no choice. Then the IMF/ECB impose terms so we won't default again.

Something like Hungary, a 50% decrease in all welfare payments, a 30% decrease in all PS pay, a PS redundancies with no redundancy package and a slashing of public services.

Like Greece once you default you lose absolute control of budgets. So they can impose these conditions without fear of a electoral backlash as they are not in democratic power.

We do not want to default, but it is increasingly not in our control, the world seems to be sliding back into recession.