You're all Transgender hens until Proven Otherwise!!

drunkmonkey

Mardy Bum wrote: »

What do you make of this then. Matriarchy :eek:

Great I like it but I don't see them taking hormone replacement pills and getting there dicks chopped off on the NHS, big big difference.

Millicent

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm just worried that children will grown up thinking the may not be the sex there born a lot more than they are now. I'm not talking about liking the same sex i'm talking about changing your sex altogether.
Medical science can now change gender if someone is not happy with the way they are born. I have a slight problem with that because it has never been possible before and now that it's possible it should be acceptable that we are born the wrong sex.
I duuno I just can see it creating more problems than it solves in the long run. If science wasn't a factor I would see no problem at all.

But even science can't pin down gender. There are massive arguments ongoing for years on whether it's down to nature or nurture, not to mention physiological and hormonal factors and brain chemistry. It's not as simple as having XX or XY chromosomes.

What problems logically can you see it creating? Children learn of their sex from about the ages of 3, 4 or 5, depending on the child. They understand that their genitalia differs from the opposite sex. For many, gender is tied with that knowledge of their genitalia.

However, all human beings, no matter how they deny it, are comprised of a blend of "masculine" and "feminine" attributes. What is wrong with giving a child the chance to explore that when they are developing their identity? Why force them to hide who they truly are because "boys shouldn't play with dolls" or "girls should wear pink"? Let them decide who they want to be. The world is not going to be worse for some boys deciding they'd rather be a homemaker or a girl deciding she wants to be a builder.

jill_valentine

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm just worried that children will grown up thinking the may not be the sex there born a lot more than they are now. I'm not talking about liking the same sex i'm talking about changing your sex altogether.
Medical science can now change gender if someone is not happy with the way they are born. I have a slight problem with that because it has never been possible before and now that it's possible it should be acceptable that we are born the wrong sex.
I duuno I just can see it creating more problems than it solves in the long run. If science wasn't a factor I would see no problem at all.

Nature used to let people die of appendicitis and poor dental health until we figured out how to defy it. The fact that something requires the application of human science isn't a good enough reason, in itself, to invalidate something.

guitarzero

Well, it's pretty clear, in plain terms, as we used to say way back in the day, that resistance is futile. I prefer to be called by my pps number thank you very much.

Millicent

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Great I like it but I don't see them taking hormone replacement pills and getting there dicks chopped off on the NHS, big big difference.

We don't have the NHS... And honestly, it seems like maybe you're just a bit freaked out by transgendered people rather than that you have any coherent, logical objections to it outside of "ick".

L.Jenkins

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Great I like it but I don't see them taking hormone replacement pills and getting there dicks chopped off on the NHS, big big difference.

But what is you're issue with gender change? It will not be the downfall of society.

Babybuff

here op, probably better if you understood what the term gender actually means before you go expounding your theories about the downfall of society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

drunkmonkey

Millicent wrote: »

We don't have the NHS... And honestly, it seems like maybe you're just a bit freaked out by transgendered people rather than that you have any coherent, logical objections to it outside of "ick".

Well the HSE then. Your not getting me. If I have a willy and I grow up thinking well hold on I prefer the female hen role I should be able to play that role. That's fine be the mammy, the carer, the nurturer if that's what you want and that's what happens in the video you linked to.

I'm not going to get into a debate about transgender but I do think a lot of it wouldn't be happening without the internet. There are people i'm not saying all but some people have serious mental health issues that are not addressing them in the society they live and are 100% dependent on online support.

It's too easy get the blade and the magic beans these days without really addressing the underlying issues. I've seen it here on boards and it worries me as these people have real world problems that aren't being diagnosed properly.

If I start a thread saying I think i'm transgender, I will get support here to take it to the next step. That thought is frightening.

Edit:
By transgender I mean genitial mutiliation to look like the opposite sex.

Babybuff

oh for the love of god.

Monkey, 100 years ago women were not permitted to wear trousers. It wasn't acceptable for them to cut their hair short, educate themselves or be thought of as anything less than inferior to the male in society. Joan of arc was burned at the stake for dressing like a man. Today women pretty much cross dress all the time. They wear jeans, they cut their hair short, they go to college and acquire positions of responsibility and respect.

The reason why men can't do this is because it's considered socially unacceptable to want to even resemble a woman. and if they do it means they're somehow mentally ill.

Millicent

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Well the HSE then. Your not getting me. If I have a willy and I grow up thinking well hold on I prefer the female hen role I should be able to play that role. That's fine be the mammy, the carer, the nurturer if that's what you want and that's what happens in the video you linked to.

I didn't link to a video.

So you are okay with boys taking on traditionally feminine roles and vice versa then, is what you're saying?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not going to get into a debate about transgender but I do think a lot of it wouldn't be happening without the internet. There are people i'm not saying all but some people have serious mental health issues that are not addressing them in the society they live and are 100% dependent on online support.

But it's your thread.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's too easy get the blade and the magic beans these days without really addressing the underlying issues.

It's really not. No offence but you have no idea what you're talking about.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I've seen it here on boards and it worries me as these people have real world problems that aren't being diagnosed properly.

What have you seen exactly on Boars?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If I start a thread saying I think i'm transgender, I will get support here to take it to the next step. That thought is frightening.

That's not frightening. That's supportive. If you are sure in yourself that's what you want to do, what's wrong with being supported? Just as an FYI, gender change is a long and protracted process complete with counselling, psychological assessment, numerous doctors' visits, and a long period of "trying on" the role before the change is made. There is ample opportunity to back out at any time. So where's the issue once those safeguards are in place? And what has that got to do with children's toys?

Links234

You've really no clue about what you're talking about drunk monkey. No clue at all.

drunkmonkey

I'm not talking about Dame Edna, i'm talking about trying to physically change your sexual organs with the help of a surgeon. Nothing wrong with playing dress up.

L.Jenkins

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Well the HSE then. Your not getting me. If I have a willy and I grow up thinking well hold on I prefer the female hen role I should be able to play that role. That's fine be the mammy, the carer, the nurturer if that's what you want and that's what happens in the video you linked to.

And you're right. Everyone should have the right to choose their role in life based on how they idea.

I'm not going to get into a debate about transgender but I do think a lot of it wouldn't be happening without the internet. There are people i'm not saying all but some people have serious mental health issues that are not addressing them in the society they live and are 100% dependent on online support.

If it wasn't for the internet, it might be years before someone comes to terms with their gender identity. Transsexuality is not a mental health issue and transition has been found to alleviate alot of ones mental health issues associated with gender identity issues.

It's too easy get the blade and the magic beans these days without really addressing the underlying issues. I've seen it here on boards and it worries me as these people have real world problems that aren't being diagnosed properly.

Really do you think. Have you been following the LGBT forum so closely that you can make that deduction, because I feel otherwise. It's taken me 18 months of self evaluation, Counselling, GP visits, Psychiatry appointments and a chat with an Endocrinologist before I was given hormones.

If I start a thread saying I think i'm transgender, I will get support here to take it to the next step. That thought is frightening.

You would receive the relavent support only where needed and when asked for.

Johro

Let's break for a tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v--IqqusnNQ

drunkmonkey

Millicent wrote: »

That's not frightening. That's supportive./QUOTE]

That's where we differ. I see it as encouragement by unqualified individuals.

Goodshape

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There are people i'm not saying all but some people have serious mental health issues that are not addressing them in the society they live and are 100% dependent on online support.

Perhaps the issues aren't being addressed properly due to the stigma that's attached to "breaking" those gender norms?

Like, say, the thought of a boy playing with a pram. ****ing weird, right? We shouldn't ever show kids that that's an OK thing to do. Until they start having these "problems" themselves we should make sure they know what is right and what is wrong for their gender, yeah?

Then when the problems do surface the young adult will know how dreadfully wrong it is and.... well, I don't actually see how that's preferable.

Millicent

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's where we differ. I see it as encouragement by unqualified individuals.

I think people in the same position as another poster are more qualified to give encouragement or opinion than you are, to be fair.

What about the rest of my post?

drunkmonkey

Goodshape wrote: »

Like, say, the thought of a boy playing with a pram. ****ing weird, right?

No i'm sure plenty of lads have played with prams, probably did myself back in the day.
There actively marketing it now to children. That's a little different.

I can see Tubridy next christmas, this years hottest boys toy is a pink pram and a my baby pisses itself doll.

Sorry but i'm just not seeing it as the way forward for society.

Transgender was the wrong word to use in the title, it's drifted this off course. I still can't think of the word to describe these children who will grow up without having a role. Monogender if it exists.

Babybuff

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Transgender was the wrong word to use in the title, it's drifted this off course. I still can't think of the word to describe these children who will grow up without having a role. Monogender if it exists.

human?

Millicent

drunkmonkey wrote: »

No i'm sure plenty of lads have played with prams, probably did myself back in the day.
There actively marketing it now to children. That's a little different.

I can see Tubridy next christmas, this years hottest boys toy is a pink pram and a my baby pisses itself doll.

Sorry but i'm just not seeing it as the way forward for society.

Transgender was the wrong word to use in the title, it's drifted this off course. I still can't think of the word to describe these children who will grow up without having a role. Monogender if it exists.

It's not exactly a backwards step.

What the hell is the problem with a child getting the toy it wants, not the toy it's "supposed" to have? They're kids. Let them play with whatever they want. Won't do them any harm.

drunkmonkey

Babybuff wrote: »

human?

Nope. Nature would crate the male/female role all by itself if we didn't try to class it.

Transgender was the wrong word the more I think about it, wish I had a word for it.

Johro

Weird. I never thought of my maleness as a 'role'.

Millicent

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nope. Nature would crate the male/female role all by itself if we didn't try to class it.

Transgender was the wrong word the more I think about it, wish I had a word for it.

Again, you have completely ignored my point about the many, many arguments surrounding the creation of and perpetration of gender. Gender is not all down to nature, but is a complex mix of many different factors.

4zn76tysfajdxp

"It's about money because as long as they can fool us into believing boys and girls are fundamentally different, they can keep selling us twice as much."

That doesn't make any sense to me. Surely if a kid is restricted by gender stereotypes then they're likely to buy less of the toys on offer. Right?

drunkmonkey

Would love to chat it out but caught for time Millicent. Have to go.

L.Jenkins

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nope. Nature would crate the male/female role all by itself if we didn't try to class it.

Transgender was the wrong word the more I think about it, wish I had a word for it.

Most peoples idea of roles are constructed. It's sad that gender has to be pigeon holed into a set of rules and classifications, because it causes a sense of discomfort for some people.

Babybuff

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nope. Nature would crate the male/female role all by itself if we didn't try to class it.

Transgender was the wrong word the more I think about it, wish I had a word for it.

I think the word you're thinking of is androgynous.
It's what most children are until they reach an age where they begin acting out the gender "roles" that they have learned (or been burdened with) from society.

Johro

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nope. Nature would crate the male/female role all by itself if we didn't try to class it.

Transgender was the wrong word the more I think about it, wish I had a word for it.

You're probably thinking 'androgynous'.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/androgynous+

Millicent

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Would love to chat it out but caught for time Millicent. Have to go.

No worries. I'll look for your response tomorrow.

Wetai

Bit daft calling them 'hens', which is an inherently female word, if the point they're trying to get across is that children shouldn't automatically be labelled by gender (roles) or whatever. It should be an androgynous word, if that's the point they're trying to get across. Or else it screams feminism to me (automatically going for the female side and all that).