Acceptable for Business not for Employees.

Doc

I was thinking that what people will accept from a business is often a lot more then they will accept from an individual.

Many would accept that most business will generally be solely interested in making a profit. This generally means that they will charge as high a price as possible for the goods and services they provide while remaining competitive and not give anything away for free unless there’s an ulterior motive such as marketing or data collection. They will pay their staff as little as possible and only employ new people if they will make the company more efficient or earn them more money. If a client asks them to do something extra they will charge them for it. If a service is provided for a set amount of time and that time is exceeded there are fees that are charged for the extra time. Contracts are signed between companies and both parties fulfill exactly what is expected of them in the contract no more and no less unless otherwise agreed by both. Most company will take every possible opportunity they can to make money.

But people don’t seem to expect similar behavior from employees. People routinely are expected to work past their contracted hours or some even during their days off or at home for their employers with no overtime pay. People are often given extra duties with no extra pay offered and apparently no choice. Often individuals are called lazy or poor team players when they do not or can not because of commitments outside of work stay longer then their contracted hours. People also often do not take sick leave or holidays they are entitled too because they feel under pressure to be available to work. If an employee only sticks to his contracted duties and hours he is often seen as a poor worker even if he or she fulfills these specified duties well. If they ask for more money when given more or new duties they are often seen as money grubbing.

Dose anyone else see this as a double standard? Why should it be okay for a business to be only after profit but expect its employees to be selfless and work extra hours or go above and beyond their job description but for nothing but the love of the job? I understand if a business is struggling they may ask people to do a little extra to help get them through and I find that acceptable but other then that I don’t see why anyone should do more then what they are paid for.

shedweller

My wife doesn't stay on to do extra work. She has kids to pick up etc etc. Her peers, on the other hand, do stay on and in fairness they do get work done. But they don't get paid for it. The result of this is that everybody's caseload increases because the work is getting done.
My wife is like "feck that!!" and her peers are looking at her with stunned looks.
She's right though. Work for nothing? Right ted.

In my job there have been quite a few leaving the nest lately so my workload has increased. I didn't get paid anymore for it but i suppose the old cliche "you should be happy to have a job" applies.
Companies have been ruthless in exploiting that cliche as of late.

Feck that, Hooter to Hooter i say!:pac:

Wompa1

I just haggled down a car salesman by 1500. It's all Cut his profit margin down a bit possibly. It depends on the business. In my last job I worked way more than my scheduled hours for no extra pay but I did that for my own advancement. As I get older I won't accept working for free.

policarp

That is supposed to be what unions are for. . .

shedweller

policarp wrote: »

That is supposed to be what unions are for. . .

And we know how much of a touchy subject that is! They have their place in fairness but there comes a point where it just gets greedy.

I work a shift pattern, sometimes I will stay on for a few extra minutes to finish a task as it is usually easier to do that than explain the issue to the person taking over from me.

We all work that way so it balances out, unfortunately, our shifts don't overlap.

But I don't stay on to do extra, unless I get overtime for it!

OneArt

It's why I like freelancing. You're essentially a business in yourself. On some websites I get clients asking for "quality articles" and then I get a long list of intricate instructions. The price they're offer? $2.00 for 500 words. A good 500 word article, well researched and at the best quality is going to take up fifteen to twenty minutes, sometimes more. It doesn't just have to be research, it needs to be proofread and checked for errors.

At that rate, I'd be earning only $6 dollars an hour which is even less for me because I'm in Europe. I'm sorry, but if you want the best quality articles you have to offer a higher price. You get what you pay for.

narfsnonsense

Doc wrote: »

People routinely are expected to work past their contracted hours or some even during their days off or at home for their employers with no overtime pay. People are often given extra duties with no extra pay offered and apparently no choice. Often individuals are called lazy or poor team players when they do not or can not because of commitments outside of work stay longer then their contracted hours.

The recession has a big part to play in this I think. Fear of losing your job is what creates an environment where the whole office ends up working late as they don't want to be the first to go.

Its not only employers that promote this way of working. A friend of mine works for an American bank, and the odd day she does leave on time her colleagues drop comments like 'Taking a half day are we?' etc.

Complete manipulation of workers in a 'scary' time. I dont think anyone would object to the odd bit of unpaid overtime when required, but it bullsh*t when suddenly your working day doesn't finish until 8/9pm.

Doc

narfsnonsense wrote: »

The recession has a big part to play in this I think. Fear of losing your job is what creates an environment where the whole office ends up working late as they don't want to be the first to go.

Its not only employers that promote this way of working. A friend of mine works for an American bank, and the odd day she does leave on time her colleagues drop comments like 'Taking a half day are we?' etc.

Complete manipulation of workers in a 'scary' time. I dont think anyone would object to the odd bit of unpaid overtime when required, but it bullsh*t when suddenly your working day doesn't finish until 8/9pm.

I agree with all of this but it happens in companies that are not in trouble due to the recession too, and it happened during the boom time as well. Its precisely the attitude of other colleagues saying

'Taking a half day are we?'

that I can’t understand. People just working the hours they are paid for should not be seen as a bad thing! That is what they are paid to do! If the employees are working and a company is not getting all the work it needs to do done during work hours then it doesn’t have enough staff. Its not the employees fault and they shouldn’t be made feel like it is.

narfsnonsense

Doc wrote: »

I agree with all of this but it happens in companies that are not in trouble due to the recession too, and it happened during the boom time as well.

True, but just more frequent and obvious in the last few years.

I have another friend who works in stocks and shares and back in the day he would have been the very person do demean / belittle his colleagues, for leaving early and would probably do the same for no reason at all. He was a c*cky sh*t at the time and very rarely did I not have an arguement with him on a night out over his black and white views on everything.

But he has started to see through all the bullsh*t and change his ways. I think he's realising that the work environment he was in made him quite an unlikeable person. This gives me faith that things will get better.

Sorry, I know a bit off topic there, but I think the companies (mainly financial) that create an environment like that can inturn create employees with serious ego's!

suicide_circus

It depends on the job and.circumstances. If you are being paid a decent salary for the work and get fair holiday and rest periods and if there is motivation there and you are fairly treated then I can see going the extra mile as making sense. I dont do it because there is no motivation, it is very much the firm vs the employees in my place, pay isnt great, shifts can be brutal, barely legal rest periods between shifts, very difficult to get holidays, scope for advancement minimal etc

Doc

suicide_circus wrote: »

I dont do it because there is no motivation, it is very much the firm vs the employees in my place, pay isnt great, shifts can be brutal, barely legal rest periods between shifts, very difficult to get holidays, scope for advancement minimal etc

I’m not surprised at the conditions if you work at the suicide circus.;)

Dubit10

Have never and would never stay behind and work for free. I remember many moons ago when i worked in superquinn whilst still in school. They wanted the staff to stay behind on a Saturday until 6.30 (counting till cash etc..) but for us to clock out at 6pm, all this againest a backdrop of a huge operating profit for them. Unions basically did'nt do feck all for us and since that day i have refused to join a union in any job i've had. I left a couple of weeks later on principile alone.

the_syco

In any job that I've done overtime, I ensure I get paid for it, or at the very least, compensated for my time.

The way I see it; there's always be lots of work to do if you'll be doing it for free...

pickarooney

The worst thing you can do is get into a pattern of working extra for no extra pay. The second worst thing you can do is work to rule. A company won't really value an employee who shows no commitment or no backbone.

44leto

Unions are now ineffective in the manufacturing sector. The truth is globalisation is a real threat. If a manufacturer like say Intel or Pfeiser have bad industrial relations they can just up sticks and go to another economy, cheaply and quickly.

So that is a genuine threat. In America a lot of blue collar workers in the service sector are also been outsourced, there is no reason why your accountant or even your architect has to be local. For example a lot of payrolls are done in India so that is happening here already.

narfsnonsense

44leto wrote: »

Unions are now ineffective in the manufacturing sector. The truth is globalisation is a real threat. If a manufacturer like say Intel or Pfeiser have bad industrial relations they can just up sticks and go to another economy, cheaply and quickly.

So that is a genuine threat. In America a lot of blue collar workers in the service sector are also been outsourced, there is no reason why your accountant or even your architect has to be local. For example a lot of payrolls are done in India so that is happening here already.

Even the threat of such a move puts fear into employees. Its using the current climate to manipulate and take advantage of workers.

44leto

narfsnonsense wrote: »

Even the threat of such a move puts fear into employees. Its using the current climate to manipulate and take advantage of workers.

The problem is, its a genuine threat and not an empty warning. Intel can just move its Irish manufacturing to Hong Kong quickly. This is the reason I hate globalisation.

Its under threat though Americans are getting a pain in their bollox with it and pushing the issue in the up coming election. We may see a return of protectionism. Which is not good either especially for Ireland who enjoy a trade surplus and alot of foreign investment.

Who wants to live in interesting times.

listermint

44leto wrote: »

The problem is, its a genuine threat and not an empty warning. Intel can just move its Irish manufacturing to Hong Kong quickly. This is the reason I hate globalisation.

Its under threat though Americans are getting a pain in their bollox with it and pushing the issue in the up coming election. We may see a return of protectionism. Which is not good either especially for Ireland who enjoy a trade surplus and alot of foreign investment.

Who wants to live in interesting times.

While agree with many of your points, this is simply not the case. In truth Intel moving to hong kong with neither be quick or a simple easy decision.