Has any boardsies ever tries Carpaccio?

bananarama22

Is there anywhere in Dublin serving genuine Carpaccio with the raw meat? Is there a substantial risk to eating raw steak even if thinly sliced? My friend cringes when ever I even eat a rare steak. :cool:

the beer revolu

Thinly slicing the meat will make no difference in terms of safety.
There are risks involved in eating any raw meat but if the meat is very well sourced and very well handled at every stage from farm to fork it should be quite safe - problem is: how do you know it's safe?
Many places nowadays sear a piece of fillet very quickly on all sides in a very hot pan and then slice it very thinly - this renders it safe.
Problem is that it is much easier to slice wafer thin if the meat is slightly frozen which it won't be if it has been seared.
Though, I suppose you could sear it, then freeze it for a bit, then slice it.

And yes, I have had carpaccio of raw beef and it is very nice - served with rocket, parmesan shaves, olive oil and balsamic vinegar.

endabob1

I have it quite often as a starter, venison or beef generally but as said above it has to be high quality meat. I would only order somewhere that I know my meat is well sourced, I like my steak rare/blue but again I'll order it like that when I'm sure of the quality.
My current favourite Steakhouse is

http://www.carne-sa.com/menu.html

Have had both the
Hand sliced 24 month grass fed sirloin beef carpaccio, rocket, parmesan, extravirgin Morgenster olive oil
& the
Veal tongue carpaccio with a poached tongue salad
and salsa verde

In the last few weeks and both are delicious. It helps that I know the meat wholesaler so have 100% confidence in the quality.

Mr Simpson

Carpaccio of beef is made with beef fillet. If the fillet is stored correctly, its perfectly safe, as it is the only cut of beef which does not naturally have E-Coli 0157 living on the surface of the meat. This is also why Steak Tartare is perfectly safe. Personally i'm not mad about, I prefer my meat with at least 1 minutes cooking, so Bleu, not raw.

the beer revolu

mmcn90 wrote: »

Carpaccio of beef is made with beef fillet. If the fillet is stored correctly, its perfectly safe, as it is the only cut of beef which does not naturally have E-Coli 0157 living on the surface of the meat. This is also why Steak Tartare is perfectly safe. Personally i'm not mad about, I prefer my meat with at least 1 minutes cooking, so Bleu, not raw.

That sounds very suspect to me.

So in the butchering of the animal the fillet couldn't possibly come into contact with any other part of the animal, no common knives or handling etc etc??

wonderfulname

I absolutely adore it, I disagree with searing the meat though, it ruins the flavour in my opinion, the traditional way to get the thin slice is to semi freeze the fillet, which renders the surface safe, which it should be anyway given the quality the meat should be.

Koh near Jervis does an interesting take on carpaccio, very spicy and fresh. If you want to make it yourself Fallon and Byrne sell good quality fillet steak, and it's great value for what it is, I turned it into steak tartare myself and it was absolutely divine.

Mr Simpson

the beer revolu wrote: »

mmcn90 wrote: »

Carpaccio of beef is made with beef fillet. If the fillet is stored correctly, its perfectly safe, as it is the only cut of beef which does not naturally have E-Coli 0157 living on the surface of the meat. This is also why Steak Tartare is perfectly safe. Personally i'm not mad about, I prefer my meat with at least 1 minutes cooking, so Bleu, not raw.

That sounds very suspect to me.

So in the butchering of the animal the fillet couldn't possibly come into contact with any other part of the animal, no common knives or handling etc etc??

I understand your point about cross contamination, its some thing i've always wondered myself. Its just what I've always been taught, I don't fully understand it.

Edit: From reading and thinking about it a little more, I really have to stop blindly listening to lecturers!! Steak tartare has a risk of E-Coli. The fillet itself is free from e-coli, however cross contamination can very easily occur, as The Beer Revolu pointed out. A way of getting rid of the risk with carpaccio would be to sear it on a very very hot pan, so the temp reaches 70 on the outside but it remains raw on the inside. You learn something new every day!

Mellor

mmcn90 wrote: »

Edit: From reading and thinking about it a little more, I really have to stop blindly listening to lecturers!! Steak tartare has a risk of E-Coli. The fillet itself is free from e-coli, however cross contamination can very easily occur, as The Beer Revolu pointed out.

E-Coli is a bacteria from the intestines of cattle.
It is isn't present in any cut of meat and the only way is gets there is contamination. The fillet is no different to the other muscles around it in that regard.
Maybe due to its location, its unlikely to be the initial site of contamination. But with hanging, transport, butchering etc, it will spread to all the cuts pretty quick i'd imagine.

duploelabs

mmcn90 wrote: »

I understand your point about cross contamination, its some thing i've always wondered myself. Its just what I've always been taught, I don't fully understand it.

Edit: From reading and thinking about it a little more, I really have to stop blindly listening to lecturers!! Steak tartare has a risk of E-Coli. The fillet itself is free from e-coli, however cross contamination can very easily occur, as The Beer Revolu pointed out. A way of getting rid of the risk with carpaccio would be to sear it on a very very hot pan, so the temp reaches 70 on the outside but it remains raw on the inside. You learn something new every day!

Steak tartar has no more risk than having a blue steak as the meat is minced moments prior to plating up. If the meat is minced hours before service then it dries out and it looses the point of the dish in the first place

Mellor

duploelabs wrote: »

Steak tartar has no more risk than having a blue steak as the meat is minced moments prior to plating up. If the meat is minced hours before service then it dries out and it looses the point of the dish in the first place

I think his point was that steak tartare has a risk just like other raw steak, therefore e-coli must have a potential to be on fillet.

vibe666

i've eaten it loads, it would always be my no.1 choice on a starter menu if it's there, i love it (and anything else to do with eating meat!).

also had steak tartar a few times and enjoyed that very much as well.

if i'm honest, i always have a taste all the beef mince and steak i cook with before it goes into the pan (for at least the last 15-20 years, at least a couple of times a week) and i've never had any ill effects myself, but obviously your mileage may vary.

loveisdivine

Ive had the tapas carpaccio at the four seasons and its superb! They also do little meatballs in a tomato sauce and the meatballs were served pink too, divine! So much more tender than normal meatballs.

vibe666

i was in the 3 michelin star plaza athenee in paris (the highlight of a 30th birthday long weekend treat for my wife) and one of the courses on their taster menu included semi raw prawns. the dish was very tasty actually and the texture of the prawns definitely added to the dish, but i imagine they had to be very careful about where they get them from to be able to leave them half raw and not make people very sick.

i'll bee honest, even given the ultra high profile of the place as the flagship restaurant of alain ducasse i was still skeptical, but it was the meal of a lifetime and if i had the money i'd do it every year, but the bill for 2 people with wine and all the extras was almost 4 figures so unless i win the lotto it really was a one time deal.

bananarama22

Mellor wrote: »

E-Coli is a bacteria from the intestines of cattle.
It is isn't present in any cut of meat and the only way is gets there is contamination. The fillet is no different to the other muscles around it in that regard.
Maybe due to its location, its unlikely to be the initial site of contamination. But with hanging, transport, butchering etc, it will spread to all the cuts pretty quick i'd imagine.

Excuse the ignorance, but how is very rare steak OK to eat, but even slightly undercooked chicken can be lethal?

the beer revolu

bananarama22 wrote: »

Excuse the ignorance, but how is very rare steak OK to eat, but even slightly undercooked chicken can be lethal?

Because, as I understand it, the nasties on beef can only be on the surface and are killed on contact with a hot pan. With chicken, the nasties can be right through the meat so it must reach a safe internal temperature before being consumed.

vibe666

that's pretty much the way i understand it too. the contaminants are only on the surface of beef and get there indirectly from the meat processing which is caused by cross contamination of the meat via the removal of fecal matter from the animal (i.e. intestines etc.) where the nasties live.

whereas chicken is just a dirty bird inside and out.

Mr Simpson

Because theyre very different nasties. In beef the 'nasty' is E Coli 0157, which lives on the surface of the meat, In Chicken, its Salmonella, which can affect the whole animal. Thats my understanding of it anyway.

vibe666

mmcn90 wrote: »

Because theyre very different nasties. In beef the 'nasty' is E Coli 0157, which lives on the surface of the meat, In Chicken, its Salmonella, which can affect the whole animal. Thats my understanding of it anyway.

yes, but i think that the e coli gets on to the surface of the meat as it lives in the gut and can be transferred to the surface of the meat during the butchering process.

i think.

Bluefoam

Carpaccio is yummy. Although I've only eaten it in Italy. I've also eaten a specialty in a town in northern Italy called Bra. It is basically raw minced beef and there is only one butcher trusted to produce it. Apparently it is particular to this town only. I enjoyed it, but even my hosts, who were locals, didn't eat it.

Mr Simpson

vibe666 wrote: »

mmcn90 wrote: »

Because theyre very different nasties. In beef the 'nasty' is E Coli 0157, which lives on the surface of the meat, In Chicken, its Salmonella, which can affect the whole animal. Thats my understanding of it anyway.

yes, but i think that the e coli gets on to the surface of the meat as it lives in the gut and can be transferred to the surface of the meat during the butchering process.

i think.

This conversation is getting far too confusing for me

I think we're agreeing, not really sure anymore!!!

vibe666

mmcn90 wrote: »

This conversation is getting far too confusing for me

I think we're agreeing, not really sure anymore!!!

i think we probably are too.

also, anything to do with meat is scrummy!

I currently have a lamb rump steak just about ready for the bbq (possibly under an umbrella if the weather doesn't pick up:() and two steaks marinating in homemade teriyaki sauce ready for tonight.

meeaat, om nom nom! :pac: