Shots fired from assault rifle at veteran republican's funeral

Dubhlinner

Whatever your thoughts on the man I am surprised this has not made mainstream headlines. It is claimed "the IRA" provided the firing party but doesn't say which IRA. Had it been the inla there would have been big issues because they are supposed to have decommissioned.

What really strikes me is the weapon used. Looks like an Armalite. To the best of my knowledge this has not been used by post good friday agreement militants. The weapons used at the Massarene shootings were AKMs. I think the one used in the Stephen Carrol murder was an AK47

I really don't think Armalites have been used since the GFA and would probably be better calibre than the two mentioned above. So is there any possibility this is a provo weapon that should have been destroyed in 2005 or is this weapon in the hands of modern militant republicans and just hasn't been used?

When a republican prisoner died a while back there was a firing party with handguns and it was all over BBC. Something a bit odd here

Sunnyisland

As it seems he was first connected to the Official republican movement,Maybe the armalite came from them as I am not sure if they decommissioned all the armaments, Maybe the current leaders of the labour party would know :pac:;)

Hannibal

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Whatever your thoughts on the man I am surprised this has not made mainstream headlines. It is claimed "the IRA" provided the firing party but doesn't say which IRA. Had it been the inla there would have been big issues because they are supposed to have decommissioned.

What really strikes me is the weapon used. Looks like an Armalite. To the best of my knowledge this has not been used by post good friday agreement militants. The weapons used at the Massarene shootings were AKMs. I think the one used in the Stephen Carrol murder was an AK47

I really don't think Armalites have been used since the GFA and would probably be better calibre than the two mentioned above. So is there any possibility this is a provo weapon that should have been destroyed in 2005 or is this weapon in the hands of modern militant republicans and just hasn't been used?

When a republican prisoner died a while back there was a firing party with handguns and it was all over BBC. Something a bit odd here

There is only one IRA and they decommissioned in 2005.

There is a possibility it could be an Armalite formerly belonging to the IRA because when the 1997 split occured and the Real IRA was formed, Michael McKevitt was then the Quartermaster of the IRA and he had already taken weaponry from IRA arms dumps to have available for the Real IRA. So in the period he had available to take IRA weapons who knows what he could have taken

Dubhlinner

Dotsey wrote: »

There is only one IRA and they decommissioned in 2005.

hehe delete that before my thread goes off on a massive tangent

There is a possibility it could be an Armalite formerly belonging to the IRA because when the 1997 split occured and the Real IRA was formed, Michael McKevitt was then the Quartermaster of the IRA and he had already taken weaponry from IRA arms dumps to have available for the Real IRA. So in the period he had available to take IRA weapons who knows what he could have taken

I guess this is probably the most likely explanation. Just seems odd they never used it before. Would have seemed a more suitable weapon at Massareene. Though could be plenty other reasons for using the weapon that they did.

Other thing is this is bound to have a big police response even if its not reported. Would the reals want to draw attention to themselves like that?

What I was sort of thinking was perhaps this is an ex provo deciding this republican deserves a proper send off and decided to bring the big stuff out of the attic. Likely provisionals didn't decommission everything in 2005

Also trying to find out if they were ever used by the stickies realies, though they also decommissioned

MaxSteele

Seems he was quite a prominent member of the hardline republican movement. Nothing really surprising, regarding that kind of send off, there have been a number of these send offs even since the GFA from what I've read in the papers.

Nodin

Dubhlinner wrote: »

..........

It is claimed "the IRA" provided the firing party but doesn't say which IRA.

It was supposed to be, by implication, an "official"/sticky.

Dubhlinner

Nodin wrote: »

It was supposed to be, by implication, an "official"/sticky.

have you got the right quote there, your post isn't making sense to me

Nodin

Dubhlinner wrote: »

have you got the right quote there, your post isn't making sense to me

Tis fixed now.

KeithAFC

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Whatever your thoughts on the man I am surprised this has not made mainstream headlines. It is claimed "the IRA" provided the firing party but doesn't say which IRA. Had it been the inla there would have been big issues because they are supposed to have decommissioned.

What really strikes me is the weapon used. Looks like an Armalite. To the best of my knowledge this has not been used by post good friday agreement militants. The weapons used at the Massarene shootings were AKMs. I think the one used in the Stephen Carrol murder was an AK47

I really don't think Armalites have been used since the GFA and would probably be better calibre than the two mentioned above. So is there any possibility this is a provo weapon that should have been destroyed in 2005 or is this weapon in the hands of modern militant republicans and just hasn't been used?

When a republican prisoner died a while back there was a firing party with handguns and it was all over BBC. Something a bit odd here

It isn't all over the news because no one cares about the INLA or the IRA now. They are old news now.

bwatson

Dubhlinner wrote: »

When a republican prisoner died a while back there was a firing party with handguns and it was all over BBC. Something a bit odd here

Nothing odd or underhand about it - people simply are no longer interested in the actions of paramilitaries/criminals etc. The people of the UK no longer see them as significant and that is probably what unsettles them the most!

If we want to look at people firing blindly into the air we all go to al jazeera and the Arab revolutions.

blahfckingblah

Its fairly common at republican funerals, especially in the north. As was said before a large amount of weaponry was taken from PIRA arms dumps prior to decommissioning by those who went on to form the RIRA and i suppose we have no way of knowing what weapons until they are used or found

laoch na mona

its only fair to assume the RIRA and the CIRA would have a few armalites they took when they split

Dubhlinner

laoch na mona wrote: »

its only fair to assume the RIRA and the CIRA would have a few armalites they took when they split

CIRA I doubt it very much. Their existence basically kept a secret until the PIRA called a ceasefire out fear of attacks.

RIRA yeah more plausible but I'd wonder why they haven't used them before.

I'd be more inclined to think this was OIRA or PIRA

Nodin

It's not going to be PIRA, for a variety of reasons.

Sunnyisland

Update, It seems it was the RIRA.

FOYLE SDLP MLA, Colum Eastwood has been criticised for his attendance at a funeral at which a masked gunman unleased a volley of shots.


Police in Londonderry have confirmed they are investigating an incident involving three masked men in the city on Tuesday morning (April 17).

The gunmen were initially believed to be members of the INLA, but it later emerged that members of the ‘Real IRA’ were responsible for the incident in which up to a dozen shots were fired over the coffin of former INLA and Official IRA member, Seamus Coyle.

The masked men appeared in the Rosemount Gardens area before his burial at the City Cemetery.

A statement from the PSNI said: “Police have received reports of shots being fired in the Rosemount area and are investigating.”

The INLA announced they had decommissioned their weapons arsenal in February, 2010 and IRSP leader, Willie Gallagher said INLA members were not involved in the firing of the shots.

Mr Gallagher, who attended the funeral, said the firing party came from “the IRA”, and it is understood they were members of the ‘Real IRA’.

TUV leader, Jim Allister said he was ‘astounded’ by Mr Eastwood’s participation at the funeral, at which the coffin was also flanked by an IRSP colour party.

In response, Mr Eastwood said that, while he and Mr Coyle disagreed on many issues, he was nevertheless a friend and he attended the funeral to pay his respects in that capacity.

Foyle SDLP MP, Mark Durkan today (Friday) told BBC Radio Foyle that Mr Eastwood was not present when the shots were fired.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/news/local/mla-criticised-for-attending-paramilitary-style-funeral-1-3758126&ct=ga&cad=CAEQAhgAIAAoATAAOABA9P7F_ARIAVAAWABiBWVuLUlF&cd=Jtj7hjNKkkk&usg=AFQjCNEJ1qi2YELT5-r1jB14eauwLdkRXA

SeanW

Dubhlinner wrote: »

CIRA I doubt it very much. Their existence basically kept a secret until the PIRA called a ceasefire out fear of attacks.

RIRA yeah more plausible but I'd wonder why they haven't used them before.

I'd be more inclined to think this was OIRA or PIRA

Does the Official IRA even exist anymore?

Victor

Armalite AR-18 is a fussier weapon than the AKM. When you have a limited skill set, one is likely to normally use a simpler weapon. Ammunition supplies may also be limited.

Dotsey wrote: »

There is only one IRA and they decommissioned in 2005.

They mostly decommissioned.

Border-Rat

SeanW wrote: »

Does the Official IRA even exist anymore?

Yes. Its probably the most well-armed too, behind the PIRA.

Duiske

Victor wrote: »

They mostly decommissioned.

The Independent Monitoring Commission are of the view that the IRA decommissioned all weapons that were "under its control". Unless you know otherwise ?

southsiderosie

getzls wrote: »

Might have been better firing into the coffin than over it, just to make sure.:cool:

realies wrote: »

Your not very good at this trolling are you ? or is there some kind of opinion you would like to share regarding Friends/comrades honoring a veteran republican

getzls wrote: »

Oh no, i'm not trolling. He obviously was still as i would call a player up to the end. Don't go all misty eyed over him. Or maybe you want his likes to return?

MOD NOTE:

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that we don't want to see in this forum. If you think someone is trolling, report it, rather than engaging on thread.

getzls, please familiarize yourself with the charter before posting in Politics again.

Flamebait and off-topic nonsense deleted.

Cork boy 55

Border-Rat wrote: »

Yes. Its probably the most well-armed too, behind the PIRA.

OIRA decommissioned in 2010.

From link:

UTV wrote: »

In a statement, the group said:
"We have emphasised our commitment to removing any doubts that may exist that there are any Official IRA weapons in circulation.
"To this end an extensive nationwide inventory has been completed to confirm and verify that all such equipment has been located, identified and transferred to the decommissioning body. Any other such equipment, which has not been submitted to the decommissioning process, has no association with the Official IRA."

Are you aware of OIRA Stockpiles and units still in existence?

....

I wonder just how many weapons on both sides
are hidden away in deep storage.
I would imagine that PIRA and the UDA have such "doomsday" stockpiles.

Sunnyisland

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

I wonder just how many weapons on both sides
are hidden away in deep storage.
I would imagine that PIRA and the UDA have such "doomsday" stockpiles.[/QUOTE]



Me to.

Hannibal

Victor wrote: »

Armalite AR-18 is a fussier weapon than the AKM. When you have a limited skill set, one is likely to normally use a simpler weapon. Ammunition supplies may also be limited.


They mostly decommissioned.

Prove it.

Hear say and rumour doesn't constitute proof. The IMC are of the belief that the IRA have fully complied with them.

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

I wonder just how many weapons on both sides are hidden away in deep storage.
I would imagine that IRA and the UDA have such "doomsday" stockpiles.

all estimates that both governments and the IMC had of IRA weaponary tallied correctly with what the IRA showed them during the process and with what was decommissioned.
Again this is rumour and hear say.

Victor

Dotsey wrote: »

Prove it.

Aside from the weapons pilfered from a location withheld from the IMC by dissidents, isn't there at least one character (reputed to be a senior IRA member) in front of the courts for possessing illegally held shotguns?

Hannibal

Victor wrote: »

Aside from the weapons pilfered from a location withheld from the IMC by dissidents, isn't there at least one character (reputed to be a senior IRA member) in front of the courts for possessing illegally held shotguns?

Them locations wouldn't have been revealed to the IMC at that stage when they were pilfered by McKevitt and his likes. This was around the time of the second ceasefire when McKevitt etc split to form the RIRA.

What the papers and call a "senior IRA member" is different to whether they are senior IRA members. The courts cannot differenciate between groups hence why the charge is "groups styling itself IRA".

Anybody can have illegally held firearms anyway, there's thousands of these up and down the country. I would be more worried about the drug gangs being armed to the teeth and having instant access to arsenals of weapons than a few republicans. These drug gangs are a bigger threat to the state and peoples lives than the IRA ever have been.

Victor

Dotsey wrote: »

What the papers and call a "senior IRA member" is different to whether they are senior IRA members. The courts cannot differenciate between groups hence why the charge is "groups styling itself IRA".

I have not heard of this individual being associated with any dissident group. Quite the opposite in fact.

blahfckingblah

Victor wrote: »

I have not heard of this individual being associated with any dissident group. Quite the opposite in fact.

was it a large number of arms? because a gun is illegally held if you dont renew your gun licence every year, for which you need to contact the gardai who then need to process the licence which, in many cases takes a long long time. so what im trying to say is its very easy to have an illegal shotgun or rifle and very common in rural ireland.

Lonesome Boatman

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Whatever your thoughts on the man I am surprised this has not made mainstream headlines. It is claimed "the IRA" provided the firing party but doesn't say which IRA. Had it been the inla there would have been big issues because they are supposed to have decommissioned.

What really strikes me is the weapon used. Looks like an Armalite. To the best of my knowledge this has not been used by post good friday agreement militants. The weapons used at the Massarene shootings were AKMs. I think the one used in the Stephen Carrol murder was an AK47

I really don't think Armalites have been used since the GFA and would probably be better calibre than the two mentioned above. So is there any possibility this is a provo weapon that should have been destroyed in 2005 or is this weapon in the hands of modern militant republicans and just hasn't been used?

When a republican prisoner died a while back there was a firing party with handguns and it was all over BBC. Something a bit odd here

looks like a rusty old OIRA gun to me

as far as i know they never decomissioned

HOS 1997

With it being Derry it seems probable that it was the Real IRA.

The Officials fought a bloody feud with the INLA in the 70's, even killing their leader Seamus Costello, so I can't imagine anyone associated with that group would ever be allowed to give a armed salute at a member's funeral.

Fenian Army

We haven't seen an armalite in a long time.

Don't see anything wrong with giving someone a proper send off - other things that may be done with the gun are another matter entirely.

fasttalkerchat

HOS 1997 wrote: »

With it being Derry it seems probable that it was the Real IRA.

The Officials fought a bloody feud with the INLA in the 70's, even killing their leader Seamus Costello, so I can't imagine anyone associated with that group would ever be allowed to give a armed salute at a member's funeral.

You're probably right there. They used a republican-socialist flag and shots were fired over the coffin as a mark of respect from republicans in general. Exactly who fired the shots doesn't really matter.
When someone like Ruairí Ó Brádaigh dies there will be people from every group at the funeral.

bwatson

Fenian Army wrote: »

We haven't seen an armalite in a long time.

Don't see anything wrong with giving someone a proper send off - other things that may be done with the gun are another matter entirely.

Apart from the fact that it is very much illegal and very much a danger to the general public?

fasttalkerchat

bwatson wrote: »

Apart from the fact that it is very much illegal and very much a danger to the general public?

Its done in many countries, the Americans do it for sure. I don't know of anyone who has been injured by a funeral salute in Ireland. The biggest danger is PSNI harassment after funerals.

KeithAFC

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Its done in many countries, the Americans do it for sure. I don't know of anyone who has been injured by a funeral salute in Ireland. The biggest danger is PSNI harassment after funerals.

The PSNI have a job to do. It is not the fault of the PSNI that these guys still think the conflict is going. They need to realise it ended years ago.

fasttalkerchat

KeithAFC wrote: »

The PSNI have a job to do. It is not the fault of the PSNI that these guys still think the conflict is going. They need to realise it ended years ago.

I don't think a military funerals should happen only during a conflict. If that's how his family wanted him to go then that's how it should happen. I understand that the PSNI are just following orders but arrests after funerals and Easter commemorations is out of order and pushes away and notion of normality.

KeithAFC

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I don't think a military funerals should happen only during a conflict. If that's how his family wanted him to go then that's how it should happen. I understand that the PSNI are just following orders but arrests after funerals and Easter commemorations is out of order and pushes away and notion of normality.

Then don't be threatening the life of PSNI officers and firing bullets over a coffin. People just seem to think the PSNI wake up one day and decide to go arrest these people. No, they get arrested for a reason.

Fenian Army

The deceased supported the peace process.

bwatson

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Its done in many countries, the Americans do it for sure. I don't know of anyone who has been injured by a funeral salute in Ireland. The biggest danger is PSNI harassment after funerals.

Yes, many nations I take it that you are trolling at this stage?

Or do you seriously not understand the difference between an armed force authorized by a sovereign state to uphold the monopoly on violence within said state through the use of weapons and lethal force... and a group of men in balaclavas who illegally obtain, illegally possess and illegally fire assault rifles?

fasttalkerchat

bwatson wrote: »

Yes, many nations I take it that you are trolling at this stage?

Or do you seriously not understand the difference between an armed force authorized by a sovereign state to uphold the monopoly on violence within said state through the use of weapons and lethal force... and a group of men in balaclavas who illegally obtain, illegally possess and illegally fire assault rifles?

The question was about the how dangerous the volley of shots is. What uniform they wear has no bearing on this.

Fenian Army

Dubhlinner, I don't think this has been reported at all?



Brian McFaddens funeral the other day

RIP.

junder

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

bwatson wrote: »

Yes, many nations I take it that you are trolling at this stage?

Or do you seriously not understand the difference between an armed force authorized by a sovereign state to uphold the monopoly on violence within said state through the use of weapons and lethal force... and a group of men in balaclavas who illegally obtain, illegally possess and illegally fire assault rifles?

The question was about the how dangerous the volley of shots is. What uniform they wear has no bearing on this.

Wonder what sort of weapons training they have done, handling of weapons by untrained people can be very dangerous indeed

NIMAN

junder wrote: »

Wonder what sort of weapons training they have done, handling of weapons by untrained people can be very dangerous indeed

I'm sure they have done the Health & Safety course:rolleyes:

junder

NIMAN wrote: »

junder wrote: »

Wonder what sort of weapons training they have done, handling of weapons by untrained people can be very dangerous indeed

I'm sure they have done the Health & Safety course:rolleyes:

Do you know how to handle a weapon safely?

Fenian Army

I dare say they knew what they were doing...

RMD

Guns have no place at a funeral, whether it be Republican or Loyalist. If this was a Loyalist funeral I'd imagine the Republican posters here would raise a storm in relation to the PSNI doing nothing.

junder

Fenian Army wrote: »

I dare say they knew what they were doing...

I would question that, since as a professional soldier I am required to regular training and pass regular weapon handling tests on every weapon I would use

Bruthal

junder wrote: »

Do you know how to handle a weapon safely?

Point the end that the bullet comes out, away from yourself??

whitelines

robbie7730 wrote: »

Point the end that the bullet comes out, away from yourself??

And preferably not at anyone else. The chap with the AK appears to be cocking his weapon whilst pointing it at the upstairs window of a local house/block of flats - and they don't have to be that local - within a few hundred yards will do.

junder

robbie7730 wrote: »

junder wrote: »

Do you know how to handle a weapon safely?

Point the end that the bullet comes out, away from yourself??

That's the easy part, the question is we're go you point the end were the bullet comes out in a safe manner. Don't see any range staff directing proceedings, how do we know the weapons are being carried in a correct and safe manner, what's to stop a negative discharge. Negative discharges or ND's can carry a criminal sentence in the army

fasttalkerchat

The Brits with all their training could not be trusted with guns when they were here so training isn't the issue!

Nodin

junder wrote: »

That's the easy part, the question is we're go you point the end were the bullet comes out in a safe manner. Don't see any range staff directing proceedings, how do we know the weapons are being carried in a correct and safe manner, what's to stop a negative discharge. Negative discharges or ND's can carry a criminal sentence in the army

'negligent discharge'.