Fiscal Treaty Megathread [Poll Reset]

twinytwo

lets see some of the high fliers in jail

a stop to public pensions, lets see govermental salaries and expenses sorted out.

bertie, biffos et al pensions taxed at 90%

the banks sorted out once and for all, with the salary caps etc actually enforced

lets see any of this happen then i might yes.

Irrelevant of weather it passes or not its just going to be the same old **** over and over again.

Enda and the rest of his morons dont care how much it costs the country as at the end of the day they will be recieving their big fat pensions.

filmbuffboy

I'll be voting no, despite the govt issuing threats of more austerity to the people.

woodoo

The Greeks don't seem to fall for these threats, They voted against the parties that are in favour of the bailout/austerity program even though they could go bust. Surely they aren't stupid people, maybe they are principled i don't know. But they are certainly different to us??

Chucky the tree

woodoo wrote: »

The Greeks don't seem to fall for these threats, They voted against the parties that are in favour of the bailout/austerity program even though they could go bust. Surely they aren't stupid people, maybe they are principled i don't know. But they are certainly different to us??

What's this based on?

woodoo

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What's this based on?

Do you think the Greeks are stupid?

Stark

The 6.9% who voted for the Neo-Nazi party undeniably are.

dvpower

woodoo wrote: »

Do you think the Greeks are stupid?

Stupid might be a bit strong, but they did run their country into the ground.

Chucky the tree

woodoo wrote: »

Do you think the Greeks are stupid?

Well it's harsh to paint a whole nation as stupid. However for a country where tax evasion is very common and also seen as nearly given, where they have very young retirement age, where they have a ridiculously expensive public sector area(train system is a joke), cooking their national books and then seem to think after all of this that balancing their books will be easy seems pretty stupid in my eyes. However I'm not sure what the Greeks expect or want when they voted the way they did. If they accept a default will cause even worse fianacial hardship but will last a short time but if they think everything will be all roses once they default than that is completely different. Considering most left wing parties in Ireland peddle a lot of bollox about their being no austerity anymore if they were in charge I doubt the Greek left wing parties are any different. Add in 7% support for Neo Nazis as it's hard not to label them as being a bit dumb.

Stark

Stark wrote: »

The 6.9% who voted for the Neo-Nazi party undeniably are.

I don't know about stupid, but definately angry!

Having a pissed off population is bad for your governments stability, just ask Mubarak.

Ellis Dee

I suppose it's constitutionally impossible at this stage, but the wisest course for Ireland right now would be to postpone the referendum for a while to see what new configuration emerges in Europe, how President Hollande gets on with Chancellor Merkel, what kind of cat the Greek election results put among the pigeons ---:cool:

As things are, we'll be voting on a situation that is totally in flux and we'll have no idea what the actual situation will be after (and if) things settle down among the major European actors.:rolleyes:

That's why I won't bother voting this time.:D

woodoo

Stark wrote: »

The 6.9% who voted for the Neo-Nazi party undeniably are.

That seems to be a vote against illegal immigration and there are plenty throughout Europe that feel that way.

Ellis Dee

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I suppose it's constitutionally impossible at this stage, but the wisest course for Ireland right now would be to postpone the referendum for a while to see what new configuration emerges in Europe, how President Hollande gets on with Chancellor Merkel, what kind of cat the Greek election results put among the pigeons ---:cool:

As things are, we'll be voting on a situation that is totally in flux and we'll have no idea what the actual situation will be after (and if) things settle down among the major European actors.:rolleyes:

That's why I won't bother voting this time.:D

It's more the bat* up Merkel's nightdress that will cause the most commotian.


*Here are a couple of videos I watched the other night, long story short;
FT economist suggests that Germany & Holland need to have a depression to level the playing field of the Eurozone as most other states are incapable of reaching German levels fiscal stability.
All the money of the EU has migrated to Germany, for the EU to work in the long term it needs to flow back out again.

http://youtu.be/HNvJ-okKwuc
http://youtu.be/-qUPkmK7xdU

woodoo

woodoo wrote: »

That seems to be a vote against illegal immigration and there are plenty throughout Europe that feel that way.

Maybe so, but from what i've seen on the news, this group want a pure Greek population, they'll even kick out the Germans!

Ellis Dee

Deleted User wrote: »

It's more the bat* up Merkel's nightdress that will cause the most commotian.


*Here are a couple of videos I watched the other night, long story short;
FT economist suggests that Germany & Holland need to have a depression to level the playing field of the Eurozone as most other states are incapable of reaching German levels fiscal stability.
All the money of the EU has migrated to Germany, for the EU to work in the long term it needs to flow back out again.

http://youtu.be/HNvJ-okKwuc
http://youtu.be/-qUPkmK7xdU

I agree. A little taste of their own medicine will do Germany, the Netherlands (and also hyper-smug Finland) no harm at all and maybe lead to more realistic solutions to Europe's long-term problems.

But did you really have to use the words "up Merkel's nightdress"?:eek::eek::eek:

Now I'm going to have to go out for a long walk to try and banish the grausame, schreckliche images that those words have evoked and are torturing my mind.:):)

woodoo

Two thirds of the Greeks voted for Parties against the bailout. That is true democracy but I heard Merkel is already telling them they must stick to the program.

dvpower

woodoo wrote: »

Two thirds of the Greeks voted for Parties against the bailout. That is true democracy but I heard Merkel is already telling them they must stick to the program.

And are these parties agreed on what should replace the bailout?

Pushtrak

There will be no delays it seems. http://www.nuacht.ie/news/2012/0507/eu-fiscal-treaty-will-not-be-renegotiated-merkel.html

However, there have been clear signals that he does not want to change the text of the treaty, but to add something which will provide greater growth for the eurozone.
Earlier Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore said the treaty referendum should not be deferred as a result of Mr Hollande’s election victory.

kenmc

Bloody impossible to know what to do.
Those saying vote no : The Unions. If the treaty is bad for the unions, then it must be good for the real world.

Those saying vote yes : Edna and Aymoan, The VFI (and the GAA Managers FFS!). If it's good for the government and the VFI, it must be bad for the rest of us.

So basically it comes down to "Who do you hate less"?

steve9859

Pushtrak wrote: »

There will be no delays it seems. http://www.nuacht.ie/news/2012/0507/eu-fiscal-treaty-will-not-be-renegotiated-merkel.html

However, there have been clear signals that he does not want to change the text of the treaty, but to add something which will provide greater growth for the eurozone.
Earlier Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore said the treaty referendum should not be deferred as a result of Mr Hollande’s election victory.

Well, the Greek government have just announced their failure to put together a pro-treaty coalition, so the cat is really amongst the pigeons now. Looks like an anti-treaty coalition will form - the 2nd place anti-treaty party have 3 days to put it together. To vote on the treaty in this environment is just plain daft

Wild Bill

Economics for simpletons from a couple of sporting jocks! :pac:

Lmfao! :pac::pac::pac::pac: (as sporting jocks might say)

dvpower

steve9859 wrote: »

Well, the Greek government have just announced their failure to put together a pro-treaty coalition, so the cat is really amongst the pigeons now. Looks like an anti-treaty coalition will form - the 2nd place anti-treaty party have 3 days to put it together. To vote on the treaty in this environment is just plain daft

The Greeks have already ratified it.

Wild Bill

dvpower wrote: »

The Greeks have already ratified it.

Looks like they are going to un-ratify it then, doesn't it? :pac:

I guess democracy still works in some countries.

Pedant

Hollande will not support the Treaty and there is a certain amount of ambiguity over whether it'll be accepted in Greece. It has already been rejected by the UK and the Czech Republic. An Irish "yes" vote will make little difference in the overall scheme of things as the treaty will probably not go ahead on the continent. An Irish "no" vote will just reiterate the negative feelings felt throughout Europe with regard to the treaty. Ultimate rejection of the treaty, I believe, is inevitable.

Wild Bill

I see the increasingly ridiculous Michael Noonan has called for "clarity" from Mr Hollande on what he wants done with the treaty - because his stance risks sinking the treaty in the referendum! :pac:

What part of this does he not understand?

Mr Hollande said the treaty, as is, would not be ratified

The last desperate hope of the Irish Regime is now that Mr Hollande has lied his way to power as cynically as Noonan and Gilmore did.

Lovely people.

Justice for the individual

Almaviva wrote: »

For anyone still in doubt about how to vote, read here:

GAA's leading managers throw weight behind Yes campaign

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gaas-leading-managers-throw-weight-behind-yes-campaign-3101780.html

What better experts could you look to for guidance on the management of European monetary union and governement funding than GAA county managers? All Ireland winning ones to boot, so surely they understand the finer points of international finance. Fortunately they care about you and have decided to help you make the right choice.

Irish Independent - Denis O'Brien - Fine Gael - whmmmmm. And hurling managers, stick to the hurling.

Ellis Dee

I almost choked laughing when I read that Michael Noonan had demanded "clarity" from President-elect Hollande. :rolleyes::rolleyes::):D

Wouldn't it be gas if Hollande were to reciprocate by demanding some clarity from Michael?:pac::pac::pac:

As they say in Limerick: "C'est demander beaucoup"?

xflyer

I'm no expert on referendums but if Hollande gets his way and adds something to the treaty then we cannot possibly vote on it because we're only voting for the current treaty not on some future speculative treaty. The referendum has to be deferred until some clarity is restored.

But meanwhile Kenny, Gilmore, Noonan et al are continuing with the desperate rearguard action to keep the lie going.

I was just interviewed for the latest RedC poll on the subject. It will be interesting how that survey comes out.

Phill Ewinn

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I almost choked laughing when I read that Michael Noonan had demanded "clarity" from President-elect Hollande. :rolleyes::rolleyes::):D

Wouldn't it be gas if Hollande were to reciprocate by demanding some clarity from Michael?:pac::pac::pac:

As they say in Limerick: "C'est demander beaucoup"?

Him and that Enda woman are up to their necks in it. I figure if Hollande is in on this scam we'll know as soon as we knew about FG. Four weeks after the election.

Phill Ewinn

xflyer wrote: »

I'm no expert on referendums but if Hollande gets his way and adds something to the treaty then we cannot possibly vote on it because we're only voting for the current treaty not on some future speculative treaty. The referendum has to be deferred until some clarity is restored.

But meanwhile Kenny, Gilmore, Noonan et al are continuing with the desperate rearguard action to keep the lie going.

I was just interviewed for the latest RedC poll on the subject. It will be interesting how that survey comes out.

First person I ever knew of who filled out one of those. Are you sure you're not imaginary?

xflyer

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

First person I ever knew of who filled out one of those. Are you sure you're not imaginary?

I'm the first person I ever heard of who was took part in one of those polls. Came out of the blue, bit of a surprise that.

I'm pretty sure I exist as well. Unless the Matrix is a documentary.