Fiscal Treaty Megathread [Poll Reset]

gerryo777

Daniel S wrote: »

LEAVE MY MAMMY ALONE!!!

Daniel S

gerryo777 wrote: »

PS worker

Will people PLEASE STOP using that abbreviation!!! It makes no sense!

chunkylover4

Sometimes I'm close to punching my computer screen.
I realise this has probably already been done before the thread broke into name calling, but could someone give me a reason they voted no with reference to the treaty itself rather than the rhetoric around it?

flyswatter

gerryo777 wrote: »

The unsackable job, the gold plated pension.

The 'huge pay cuts'?, Never heard any PS worker questioning the huge pay rises bertie gave during the 'partnership' years.

Remember, more money for less productivity.

Teachers being unsackable is blatantly false, don't know where you're pulling that from.

Can't recall my parents as teachers ever receiving "huge pay rises".

You sound pretty bitter and anyway this is way off topic.

Iwasfrozen

chunkylover4 wrote: »

Sometimes I'm close to punching my computer screen.
I realise this has probably already been done before the thread broke into name calling, but could someone give me a reason they voted no with reference to the treaty itself rather than the rhetoric around it?

Because I don't believe our country should be fiscally constrained by a european directed fiscal compact. Is that good enough for you?

gerryo777

chunkylover4 wrote: »

Sometimes I'm close to punching my computer screen.
I realise this has probably already been done before the thread broke into name calling, but could someone give me a reason they voted no with reference to the treaty itself rather than the rhetoric around it?

It won't help us.

Spain are on the brink of a 'bailout', Italy aren't far behind.
If these two go bang, there won't be enough money available in the proposed ESM to cover this.
Ireland mightn't get funding but will still have to put €11 billion into the ESM as required.
We should have waited, there was no hurry on this!

TheSpecialOne

chunkylover4 wrote: »

Sometimes I'm close to punching my computer screen.
I realise this has probably already been done before the thread broke into name calling, but could someone give me a reason they voted no with reference to the treaty itself rather than the rhetoric around it?

The maximum structural deficit that a country could plan to have would be 0.5% of GDP.

This Worries me as i firmly believe that at times you need to Spend more in order to boost Long Run Growth, e.g. School Building project's, Broadband infrastructure improvements.

This Part of the fiscal treaty effectively blocks any form of counter Cyclical economics, and enshrines neo-liberal economics into law.

Muir

I don't get all the public sector bashing that goes on in AH. My dad works in the public sector and is being crucified with taxes, and his pension when he retires in a couple of years will be pittance. People seem to think they're all on some amazing wage with no cares in the world.

My family all voted no. One of the big reasons I voted no is because currently we can be in debt 3% of GDP, the treaty changes this to .5%. If a country can't make that happen then they get fined. I do not understand the concept of fining a country that's already in debt, plus lowering the amount of debt allowed obviously means more taxes and cutback etc. and people can't really take much more.

gerryo777

flyswatter wrote: »

Teachers being unsackable is blatantly false, don't know where you're pulling that from.

Can't recall my parents as teachers ever receiving "huge pay rises".

You sound pretty bitter and anyway this is way off topic.

Not bitter, just pisssed off that as a self-employed person I see my income falling, my taxes rising and at the same time the CPA protects PS/CS workers in their little bubble.

catthinkin

gerryo777 wrote: »

catthinkin wrote: »

Voted yes can't understand the reasons why people think voting no will oust this government ? Bizarre we are screwed if it's a no

I'd wager you paid up on the household tax too.
It's called brainwashing and it works (on some people).

No it's called doing some research making an informed choice !!! Wasn't scared into it WTF ?
The no voters seem to think that it's a vote against government cuts or lost of their pension or getting our own back on the government or something bizarre . I havent seen one clear reason why a no vote would help this country , plenty of reasons why it won't .
The union don't need us or Greece we are not important we however desperately need their bailout money which we won't get if this isn't ratified ! Simple enough for u ????

chunkylover4

No because we already are constrained, not only by the European stability pact but also by internal legislation and government agreements. If we want to be stupid and breach the treaty we can just as we breached the stability pact, also it is generally agreed it is good to be fiscally healthy. The word healthy implies that along with all sane thought.
Finally is your issue that it is dictated by Europe?
Personally I don't like the growth of Europe and would like at least idealisically a no vote, so we have a greater chance of defaulting and as such are mostly shut out of bond markets. Then we would HAVE to cut our deficit to zero straight away. The problem is this hurts people to much and I have some sort of conscience.

gerryo777

catthinkin wrote: »

No it's called doing some research making an informed choice !!! Wasn't scared into it WTF ?
The no voters seem to think that it's a vote against government cuts or lost of their pension or getting our own back on the government or something bizarre . I havent seen one clear reason why a no vote would help this country , plenty of reasons why it won't .
The union don't need us or Greece we are not important we however desperately need their bailout money which we won't get if this isn't ratified ! Simple enough for u ????

The EU need us and Greece more than you think.

chunkylover4

1) It's only 11BN if everyone defaults
2) The fund will be worth 780 Billion euros
3) @special one, you seem to misunderstand the concept of a structural deficit

Daniel S

gerryo777 wrote: »

Not bitter, just pisssed off that as a self-employed person I see my income falling, my taxes rising and at the same time the CPA protects PS/CS workers in their little bubble.

But you had the chance to earn a lot more money than them during the good times. They sacrificed that for job security. Some people aren't fit to run businesses so they value security more than anything.

flyswatter

gerryo777 wrote: »

Not bitter, just pisssed off that as a self-employed person I see my income falling, my taxes rising and at the same time the CPA protects PS/CS workers in their little bubble.

This isn't exclusive to self employed people you know...

smash

catthinkin wrote: »

The union don't need us or Greece we are not important we however desperately need their bailout money which we won't get if this isn't ratified ! Simple enough for u ????

This confuses me because we already got money and we're currently paying back, and we're also tied into an agreement to receive more money over the next few years.

What scares me about it going through is a loss of power for the Irish government regarding our finances.

chunkylover4

Also to anybody who mentions the court of justice, google the treaty, press control and F and search for the phrases "Court of Justice" or "fine". Funnily enough THEY AREN'T THERE!
This is already agreed to.

gerryo777

Muir wrote: »

I don't get all the public sector bashing that goes on in AH. My dad works in the public sector and is being crucified with taxes, and his pension when he retires in a couple of years will be pittance. People seem to think they're all on some amazing wage with no cares in the world.

My family all voted no. One of the big reasons I voted no is because currently we can be in debt 3% of GDP, the treaty changes this to .5%. If a country can't make that happen then they get fined. I do not understand the concept of fining a country that's already in debt, plus lowering the amount of debt allowed obviously means more taxes and cutback etc. and people can't really take much more.

May I just point out that its not the average PS/CS worker I have a problem with, rather the big earners and their sense of entitlement that seems to come with being too long in the job.

Mech1

any exit polls published yet?

chunkylover4

Till 2014, where we will then need more money

The Scientician

Right I withdrew all my money from the bank in case there's a no vote. Now I don't know what to do with the €20.

gerryo777

The Scientician wrote: »

Right I withdrew all my money from the bank in case there's a no vote. Now I don't know what to do with the €20.

BUY GOLD:D

Daniel S

The Scientician wrote: »

Right I withdrew all my money from the bank in case there's a no vote. Now I don't know what to do with the €20.

Rich c**t.

€6.33 here. :pac:

chunkylover4

The Scientician wrote: »

Right I withdrew all my money from the bank in case there's a no vote. Now I don't know what to do with the €20.

Put it on a No vote, you'll get good odds, 7/1 I hear

TheSpecialOne

chunkylover4 wrote: »

3) @special one, you seem to misunderstand the concept of a structural deficit

Don't think so pal, what i was implying was not a one off event or anything, it would be a structured investment over numerous years for the long term benefit of Ireland.

conor1979

catthinkin wrote: »

The union don't need us or Greece we are not important we however desperately need their bailout money which we won't get if this isn't ratified ! Simple enough for u ????

If the Union doesnt need Greece then why have they gone to so much trouble and so much expense to bail them out? Why not just let them slide a long time ago?

And if they dont need us then why the bailout?

Would it be to do with the fact that we owe the ECB about €100 Billion? ( I'm open to correction on that figure)

What I would like to know is that if we vote no and the EU decide to let us fail, how do they think that we will pay back the money? How will the French and German banks or whoever the senior bondholders from AIB and Anglo are get there money back?

If we leave the Euro they wont.

Fighting Irish

gerryo777 wrote: »

Not bitter, just pisssed off that as a self-employed person I see my income falling, my taxes rising and at the same time the CPA protects PS/CS workers in their little bubble.

it's not their fault you're a bum

chunkylover4

Why would that stop?

flyswatter

gerryo777 wrote: »

May I just point out that its not the average PS/CS worker I have a problem with, rather the big earners and their sense of entitlement that seems to come with being too long in the job.

What about the big earning self employed people?

smash

flyswatter wrote: »

What about the big earning self employed people?

Th general public don't pay their wages!