Garda with no licience,tax, and bald tyres kills two and gets a fine!

lividduck

A Limerick based Garda who had no driving licience, no car tax and two bald tyres when he hit and killed two people has gotten off with a €900 fine!
Justice my arse!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0419/limerick-based-garda-fined-900-for-offences.html
:mad:

Mickey Dazzler

Legend!! It was Limerick. No loss then.

Mod

Poster banned

Nailz

Mickey Dazzler wrote: »

Legend!! It was Limerick. No loss then.

Arsehole.

pcardin

Two people died as a result of the incident in January 2011.

Garda Enda Clifford, who is based at Henry Street Garda Station, appeared at the District court in Limerick on a number of charges arising from an investigation by the Garda Ombudsman's Office into the fatal accident on the M20 motorway outside Limerick on 13 January 2011.

Garda Clifford is a native of Killorglin, with an address at Milltown, Co Kerry.

He was described in court as being a member of the Traffic Corps, but Henry Street Garda station has said he was never a member of the corps.

The court heard Garda Clifford was driving home after work on the M20 southbound motorway outside Limerick when he was confronted by two pedestrians who were on the ground in the middle of the road.

They suffered fatal injuries after they were struck by Garda Clifford's car.

During the investigation which followed, it transpired that Garda Clifford had no driving licence, no car tax and had two bald tyres which the court heard today were extensively worn.

Garda Clifford made a plea admitting to all charges.

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I usually detest Garda bashing threads but I'm making an exception this time.

That stinks!

Funkstard

Hang on, he knocked the two people down but they were on the ground having a scuffle in the middle of the motorway at night (as you do) and the car ran over them. If I remember correctly the garda didn't even know what he'd hit as it was so dark - that stretch of the motorway has no lights. He is being fined for driving without a licence or insurance and isn't culpable for anything else that happened.

davet82

no comment in light of funkstards new evidence

spurious

he was confronted by two pedestrians who were on the ground in the middle of the road
What does that mean? They were lying on the road and he drove over them?

Edit - tnx to Funkstard for the clarification.

Micky Dolenz

Mickey Dazzler wrote: »

Legend!! It was Limerick. No loss then.

Banned

lividduck

Funkstard wrote: »

Hang on, he knocked the two people down but they were on the ground having a scuffle in the middle of the motorway at night (as you do) and the car ran over them. If I remember correctly the garda didn't even know what he'd hit as it was so dark - that stretch of the motorway has no lights. He is being fined for driving without a licence or insurance and isn't culpable for anything else that happened.

So a pewrson who is not qualified to drive (no driving licience) drives an unroadworthy car (bald tyres) down a motorway, but they are not culpable for the results of that, maybe you would like to give him a Scott Medal!

mikemac1

he hit and killed two people

Who were lying on the motorway at night

You didn't include that in your OP though

Paparazzo

This was just an unfortunate accident. It's not like the ex munster player who was shítfaced and hit a parked car on a straight stretch of road.
Nothing to get outraged about here.

Micky Dolenz

Funkstard wrote: »

Hang on, he knocked the two people down but they were on the ground having a scuffle in the middle of the motorway at night (as you do) and the car ran over them. If I remember correctly the garda didn't even know what he'd hit as it was so dark - that stretch of the motorway has no lights. He is being fined for driving without a licence or insurance and isn't culpable for anything else that happened.

But he should never have been driving a car in the first place.

munchkin_utd

From the Irish independent:

Investigators are examining the possibility that the two men may have been involved in an altercation on the outbound lane of the motorway when the car driven by the off-duty male officer crashed into them.

so the pair were having a fight ON a 120kph Motorway and the Garda settled their argument for them.

Without knowing much more, the condition of the car and other circumstances relating to the guard seems to be secondary to the fact that the 2 lads were on a motorway illegally and unexpectedly.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-seek-identity-of-second-man-hit-by-offduty-officers-car-2495902.html

SunnyDub1

he was driving with no driving license ?

I would like to see anyone else just get a fine for having no licene... If it was anyone else they would get more then a fine

prinz

lividduck wrote: »

So a pewrson who is not qualified to drive (no driving licience) drives an unroadworthy car (bald tyres) down a motorway, but they are not culpable for the results of that, maybe you would like to give him a Scott Medal!

You're kind of missing the point. If he had a driving license, had taxed the car, had decent tyres in good condition........... he still would have driven over the two lying on the motorway. So in that sense the conditions of the tyres etc obviously were found to have had no bearing on the accident. Now if he had braked or something beforehand and it was found that the bald nature of the tyres played a role in hitting those people then you'd have a valid point.

Having said that, the fine is crazily low, and I hope he's turfed out of the force too.

_feedback_

lividduck wrote: »

So a pewrson who is not qualified to drive (no driving licience) drives an unroadworthy car (bald tyres) down a motorway, but they are not culpable for the results of that, maybe you would like to give him a Scott Medal!

He could have driven a new car off the factory line in perfect condition and still couldn't avoid what happened.

He is merely being fined for the bad condition of his car, and lack of a licence etc.

Jhcx

Was it a private car

zenno

Obviously not enough information to go by here or on RTE news website. You would think RTE would be able to print a simple news story properly :rolleyes:

Funkstard

lividduck wrote: »

So a pewrson who is not qualified to drive (no driving licience) drives an unroadworthy car (bald tyres) down a motorway, but they are not culpable for the results of that, maybe you would like to give him a Scott Medal!

If you wouldn't mind reading either my post or the article properly you'll see that he has been prosecuted for driving with bald tyres and without insurance or a licence, but none of these (as per an investigation stated in the article) led to the deaths of the two men. Them having a fight in the middle of the motorway, in the dark, is what led to their death.

HigginsJ

mikemac1 wrote: »

Who were lying on the motorway at night

You didn't include that in your OP though

Yea thats a key piece of information tbf

HigginsJ

And it's no tthe end of the matter.

Garda Ombudsman is carrying out a full investigation so he may still have to face further charges.

Micky Dolenz

Funkstard wrote: »

If you wouldn't mind reading either my post or the article properly you'll see that he has been prosecuted for driving with bald tyres and without insurance or a licence, but none of these (as per an investigation stated in the article) led to the deaths of the two men. Them having a fight in the middle of the motorway, in the dark, is what led to their death.

But it did lead to their deaths. Had he followed the law he would certainly not have killed them.

munstergirl

Its the people who were killed own fault for being on motorway in middle of night, fighting or whatever they were doing.

Even if gardai had driver licence, new tyres they still would be dead.

_feedback_

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But it did lead to their deaths. Had he followed the law he would certainly not have killed them.

Had he followed the law and not driven the car, he certainly wouldn't have, but the next car would have.

He couldn't help what happened, apart from not being there in the first place.

professore

Did he not have lights on his car? Surely if it was dark he would have had full beams on.

rotinaj

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But it did lead to their deaths. Had he followed the law he would certainly not have killed them.

He would still of killed them. No mater how good the tyres or reactions of the driver you are not gonna bring an average car form 120kph to a stop in the time he would of seen them.

Donnielighto

professore wrote: »

Did he not have lights on his car? Surely if it was dark he would have had full beams on.

I dont get this part either.

HigginsJ

at night on that stretch of road (no road side lighting) doing 120kmph he would have been on them before he knew it I imagine.

Also to be fair, 2 guys lying/fighting on the ground in the middle of the motorway is not something you would be looking for

seamus

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But it did lead to their deaths. Had he followed the law he would certainly not have killed them.

If they had been following the law, they wouldn't have died.

He can only really be held accountable for a reasonably foreseeable outcome of his actions. Our law doesn't include a "wrong place, wrong time" concept that punishes people for simply being in a place at a certain time.

sweetie

surely it's a requirement for any garda to have a full driving license? It is in the Fire Brigade.

Micky Dolenz

elviscostello wrote: »

Had he followed the law and not driven the car, he certainly wouldn't have, but the next car would have.

He couldn't help what happened, apart from not being there in the first place.

We don't know that for sure. The only thing we do know for sure is a driver who shouldn't have been on the road killed two people.

It is obvouis it was an accident and the driver must have in right shock after it but it doesn't absolve him from the deaths.

SunnyDub1

If the car had of been in road worthy condition, it could have been avoided...

And how the fuk could you not see 2 people on a road? Had he no lights?

Last but not least ... He had no bloody license. HE SHOULDN'T OF BEEN ON THE ROAD !

marco_polo

seamus wrote: »

If they had been following the law, they wouldn't have died.

But a car coming along 30 seconds later would have anyway.

Paparazzo

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But it did lead to their deaths. Had he followed the law he would certainly not have killed them.

Not nessessarly. If he followed the letter of the law he could have had his licence renewed the week before and still drove.
The people on the middle of the road were the people who made the biggest mistake here.

Micky Dolenz

seamus wrote: »

If they had been following the law, they wouldn't have died.

They aren't the ones being prosecuted. I think the consequences of their law breaking was severe enough.

SunnyDub1

rotinaj wrote: »

He would still of killed them. No mater how good the tyres or reactions of the driver you are not gonna bring an average car form 120kph to a stop in the time he would of seen them.

Its a motor way... big enough road and space for a car to be moved.. hardly imagine the 2 of them where taking up the whole road

_feedback_

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

We don't know that for sure. The only thing we do know for sure is a driver who shouldn't have been on the road killed two people.

It is obvouis it was an accident and the driver must have in right shock after it but it doesn't absolve him from the deaths.

But sure there would have been a forensic investigation in to what happened. If the condition of the car or his ability was found to be at fault, he would have been charged with that.

Guy:Incognito

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

he was driving with no driving license ?

I would like to see anyone else just get a fine for having no licene... If it was anyone else they would get more then a fine

I doubt theres any shortage of court cases where people get fines for being caught with no licence.

zenno

No driving licence, no car tax and had two bald tyres, The solicitor said while he did not want to dilute the tragic consequences of this accident, the garda was not facing any driving charges and there was no criminal culpability in the case.

Doesn't this account for a driving ban ?. It would if it was any of us.

HeidiHeidi

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

And how the fuk could you not see 2 people on a road? Had he no lights?

Have you never nearly had a heart attack when you're almost on top of an unlit cyclist/pedestrian at night? Because I have, and that's mostly in the city on "lit" roads. There's absolutely nothing reflective about two people lying in the overtaking lane on a motorway, lights count for almost nothing - and at motorway speed even if he had seen them it's doubtful if he'd be able to stop in time anyway.

Micky Dolenz

HigginsJ wrote: »

at night on that stretch of road (no road side lighting) doing 120kmph he would have been on them before he knew it I imagine.

Where exactly did it happen?

OldGoat

The court appear to have been lienent. They overlooked his not being insured.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/Types-of-offences/
No insurance: 5 penalty points and a fine of up to €2,500 and/or a possible term of imprisonment

tuxy

He got no driving ban?

He could apply for a licence and be on the road legally in a few weeks time?

HigginsJ

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

Its a motor way... big enough road and space for a car to be moved.. hardly imagine the 2 of them where taking up the whole road

It was at night, on an unlit part of the motorway, doing 120kmph.

I drive home that road every night, I cant imagine that it would be that easy to spot the 2 guys. Doubt they were wearing hi-viz jackets.

I'm not defending the guy, he will face alot more consequences than a 900e fine i imagine, and I guess it will haunt the guy.

The fact that he is a Guard is of little relevance

Seachmall

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

If the car had of been in road worthy condition, it could have been avoided...

Pure speculation.

Last but not least ... He had no bloody license. HE SHOULDN'T OF BEEN ON THE ROAD !

Hence the fine.

Terrontress

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

And how the fuk could you not see 2 people on a road? Had he no lights?

Have you never nearly had a heart attack when you're almost on top of an unlit cyclist/pedestrian at night? Because I have, and that's mostly in the city on "lit" roads. There's absolutely nothing reflective about two people lying in the overtaking lane on a motorway, lights count for almost nothing - and at motorway speed even if he had seen them it's doubtful if he'd be able to stop in time anyway.

You could possibly swerve to avoid them though.

I'm interested to know why he had no license but owned a car. Had he never had a license, had he lost a license, was he not required to have a license?

There was a Garda on the N3 who killed a woman while driving and, if I recall correctly, he had no license. The outcome of a court case was that he did not need one as he was a Garda.

Edit:

This is the case I am referring to

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/garda-in-fatal-crash-didnt-have-a-driving-licence-inquest-told-1945362.html

It says that the legislation not requiring him to have a license was recommended to be reviewed so maybe they do need it now.

He was driving to court when he killed her so he was doing so in the line of his duty but if you have no license but own a car and kill someone while driving, it is obvious you have been driving for a while.

HigginsJ

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Where exactly did it happen?

Somewhere past the Raheen exit from what I understand

HigginsJ

tuxy wrote: »

He got no driving ban?

He could apply for a licence and be on the road legally in a few weeks time?

He has been fined for his motoring related offenses. He was not charged of speeding/drink driving so no ban.

marco_polo

Seachmall wrote: »

Pure speculation.

Hence the fine.

The fine is that part I have a problem with, driving with no Insurance and License in an unroadworthy car should be an automatic driving ban.

zenno

Terrontress wrote: »

There was a Garda on the N3 who killed a woman while driving and, if I recall correctly, he had no license. The outcome of a court case was that he did not need one as he was a Garda.

It doesn't matter if he is a garda, If you drive a vehicle on any road you have to have a licence end of story. There shouldn't be one set of rules for 1 person and another set for the other.