Garda with no licience,tax, and bald tyres kills two and gets a fine!

Jesus Shaves

Kess73 wrote: »

The corner/bend where the fight was happening is one that is pretty blind to cars coming off the sliproad.

That changes it completely

Jesus Shaves

hondasam wrote: »

That is pure rubbish, have you driven at night? ever encounter someone walking wearing dark clothes and no light?

Yes and I still havent killed anyone

hondasam

darokane wrote: »

Yes and I still havent killed anyone

You are so smug, hope it stays fine for you. I suppose you thing anyone that has knocked some down did it for the fun. Don't be to complacent, karma can be a bitch.

thebullkf

MagicSean wrote: »

darokane wrote: »

He should have seen them and took evasive action, having bald tyres contributed to their deaths, If he had good tyres there's a great possibility that the deaths could have been avoided, And that's not even mentioning the fact that he shouldn't have been on the road anyway.
Whilst the 2 men shouldn't have been on the motorway fighting on the motorway a driver with a roadworthy car would have avoided the incident

What a load of bull****. You've obviously not read any of the thread.

I have read the thread, two things, gardai have said he wasn't one of them, what was he? Would an "ordinary" citizen get away so lightly? I have driven that road, at night, tis not the m50 by any means but its not that busy either, if he was a decent driver evasive action may have helped, but with seriously bald three you.ve no chance his punishment should be harsher than a non Garda simply was he's broken laws he swore to uphold, he has a higher duty of care, due to nature of his job,he should be sacked, lose his pension, and be banned from driving for life, harsh sentences are a deterrent, the reason we have such poor and frequent offenders is because our justice system is a joke, smacks of Cronyism tbh, bit like the Garda who sexually assaulted the bangarda a while back, we do not lead by example in this country, hence the gulf between what's acceptable and what's not. Wonder how many gardai on boards there are, and their honest opinion of a paltry fine? Apologies for typos, on mobile.

Jesus Shaves

hondasam wrote: »

You are so smug, hope it stays fine for you. I suppose you thing anyone that has knocked some down did it for the fun. Don't be to complacent, karma can be a bitch.

I know I am, Maybe karma can be a bitch, if you believe in all that tripe

HigginsJ

thebullkf wrote: »

I have read the thread, two things, gardai have said he wasn't one of them, what was he? Would an "ordinary" citizen get away so lightly? I have driven that road, at night, tis not the m50 by any means but its not that busy either, if he was a decent driver evasive action may have helped, but with seriously bald three you.ve no chance his punishment should be harsher than a non Garda simply was he's broken laws he swore to uphold, he has a higher duty of care, due to nature of his job,he should be sacked, lose his pension, and be banned from driving for life, harsh sentences are a deterrent, the reason we have such poor and frequent offenders is because our justice system is a joke, smacks of Cronyism tbh, bit like the Garda who sexually assaulted the bangarda a while back, we do not lead by example in this country, hence the gulf between what's acceptable and what's not. Wonder how many gardai on boards there are, and their honest opinion of a paltry fine? Apologies for typos, on mobile.

He has not been found guilty (so far) of anything other than minor offenses that you or I would get the same punishment that he received if it were our 1st time offending.

You want to take away his life/career/future because of an accident in which he was not at fault. If it were Cronyism im sure the Gardai would have overlooked the fact that his tax was out of date and that he did not have licence.

Jesus Shaves

HigginsJ wrote: »

He has not been found guilty (so far) of anything other than minor offenses that you or I would get the same punishment that he received if it were our 1st time offending.

Bull
You or I would be banned from driving for life

_feedback_

thebullkf wrote: »

I have read the thread, two things, gardai have said he wasn't one of them, what was he? Would an "ordinary" citizen get away so lightly? I have driven that road, at night, tis not the m50 by any means but its not that busy either, if he was a decent driver evasive action may have helped, but with seriously bald three you.ve no chance his punishment should be harsher than a non Garda simply was he's broken laws he swore to uphold, he has a higher duty of care, due to nature of his job,he should be sacked, lose his pension, and be banned from driving for life, harsh sentences are a deterrent, the reason we have such poor and frequent offenders is because our justice system is a joke, smacks of Cronyism tbh, bit like the Garda who sexually assaulted the bangarda a while back, we do not lead by example in this country, hence the gulf between what's acceptable and what's not. Wonder how many gardai on boards there are, and their honest opinion of a paltry fine? Apologies for typos, on mobile.

I by no means think that anyone should drive a non roadworthy car, particularly without your licence in order, but for the love of god.

Take a mans life and career from him because he was unfortunate enough to come across two dopes rolling around a fúckin motorway?

oppenheimer1

professore wrote: »

Did he not have lights on his car? Surely if it was dark he would have had full beams on.

You do not drive on a motorway with full beams.

HigginsJ

darokane wrote: »

Bull
You or I would be banned from driving for life

You think?

If it happened to you or I in the future you can refer to this case and legal precedent and be fine.

hondasam

darokane wrote: »

Bull
You or I would be banned from driving for life

You can prove this can you?

Jesus Shaves

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

You do not drive on a motorway with full beams.

:eek:WOW

Jesus Shaves

HigginsJ wrote: »

You think?

If it happened to you or I in the future you can refer to this case and legal precedent and be fine.

Good point.

ResearchWill

Having seen a few DC traffic cases a person charged with no license, no tax and 2 bald tyres, in my opinion the total fine would be in the range of €250 to €1000 depending on district judge. It seems in this case it's at the higher end. I have never seen a ban for such charges on a first offense ever.

As the person was not charged in relation to dangerous driving causing death then he could not receive a sentence for same.

UglyBolloxFace

zenno wrote: »

No driving licence, no car tax and had two bald tyres, The solicitor said while he did not want to dilute the tragic consequences of this accident, the garda was not facing any driving charges and there was no criminal culpability in the case.

Doesn't this account for a driving ban ?. It would if it was any of us.

How can you give a driving ban to someone who isn't qualified to drive in the first place, i.e. he has no licence.

_feedback_

ResearchWill wrote: »

Having seen a few DC traffic cases a person charged with no license, no tax and 2 bald tyres, in my opinion the total fine would be in the range of €250 to €1000 depending on district judge. It seems in this case it's at the higher end. I have never seen a ban for such charges on a first offense ever.

As the person was not charged in relation to dangerous driving causing death then he could not receive a sentence for same.

Only thing is, this one is a guard, and everyone knows, if a guard is naughty they should be brought out and shot.

lividduck

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

How can you give a driving ban to someone who isn't qualified to drive in the first place, i.e. he has no licence.

It routinely happens, banned from driving does not require you to have a liciense but it prevents you from obtaining one.

Terrontress

I am not familiar with the stretch of road at all but it would appear from reading this thread that it is dangerous in design and should either have the speed limit reduced, layout altered or lighting installed and possibly all three.

If a truck had shed its load or there was a traffic jam or some other reason to stop urgently then fatalities might also have occurred in this blind spot.

ResearchWill

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

How can you give a driving ban to someone who isn't qualified to drive in the first place, i.e. he has no licence.

It happens all the time, a ban will stop you getting a license. Otherwise a person with no license could avoid a ban and then just apply for license next day.

patwicklow

if he was a good garda he should have booked him self for no license, no tax and 2 bald tyres, as they say though one law for them...

Doc Ruby

Haven't read the thread, but I'm confused about how a qualified garda would have no driving license in the first place. Isn't that part of their basic training? They should even have advanced training in place to be honest.

Anyway, no, I can't see a case for unsafe driving here, the culpability lies entirely on the shoulders of the deceased. Tussling on a motorway at night for gods sake. By the time the headlights even touched them round a bend anyone would have maybe a split second to take evasive action.

I doubt the vehicle itself would be responsive enough to avoid them.

testicle

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

he was driving with no driving license ?

I would like to see anyone else just get a fine for having no licene... If it was anyone else they would get more then a fine

As requested...

http://www.carlowpeople.ie/news/had-no-driving-licence-1108167.html

Would you like more, or would you just prefer to continue talking out your arse?

HigginsJ

Terrontress wrote: »

I am not familiar with the stretch of road at all but it would appear from reading this thread that it is dangerous in design and should either have the speed limit reduced, layout altered or lighting installed and possibly all three.

If a truck had shed its load or there was a traffic jam or some other reason to stop urgently then fatalities might also have occurred in this blind spot.

A bit of lighting woulddnt go astray but Traffic Jams would be visible with all the car lights and if a truck shed it load they would prob put on hazards and have warning lights a bit back.

2 guys fighting on the ground is a bit of a unique incident.

hondasam

testicle wrote: »

As requested...

http://www.carlowpeople.ie/news/had-no-driving-licence-1108167.html

Would you like more, or would you just prefer to continue talking out your arse?

That's ten yrs old, any recent ones?

HigginsJ

patwicklow wrote: »

if he was a good garda he should have booked him self for no license, no tax and 2 bald tyres, as they say though one law for them...

And the same law for him. He has been fined for it

My name is URL

Realistically, what's the difference between failing to notice a pair of idiots fighting in the middle of the road, and failing to notice a person walking on a badly lit stretch of narrow road?

Many people have gone to jail or faced far harsher penalties than the guy in this case for failing to notice the latter.

ResearchWill

hondasam wrote: »

That's ten yrs old, any recent ones?

From 2011


Joseph Doyle of 36 Grangegowan in Tullow has been fined a total of €700 on conviction for motoring offences. The 23 year old had no insurance (€500) and no driving licence (fine €200) at Irish Street in Bunclody on July 6 last year. Garda Inspector Pat Cody reported that Doyle, who was not present at Wednesday's District Court sitting, had not cooperated with the probation service, failing to keep appointments with the probation officer. Judge John Coughlan was assured that the defendant had already been disqualified from driving for a year.

From here http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/lifestyle/court-report-2975980.html

The disqualification was for previous offenses, do with previous motor of fences he got €700 for no licence and no insurance.

HeidiHeidi

My name is URL wrote: »

Realistically, what's the difference between failing to notice a pair of idiots fighting in the middle of the road, and failing to notice a person walking on a badly lit stretch of narrow road?

Many people have gone to jail or faced far harsher penalties than the guy in this case for failing to notice the latter.

Because it's a motorway, where pedestrians are not allowed? Badly lit narrow roads generally force you to reduce your speed for that very reason (among others).

Slightly O/T, but I often wonder why unlit, darkly-clothed pedestrians - especially those who wander drunkenly around the road, and yes I have seen them - who get hit are never held to be a contributory factor to their own accident?

ResearchWill

My name is URL wrote: »

Realistically, what's the difference between failing to notice a pair of idiots fighting in the middle of the road, and failing to notice a person walking on a badly lit stretch of narrow road?

Many people have gone to jail or faced far harsher penalties than the guy in this case for failing to notice the latter.

It is normal in driving to expect person to be walking along a country road at night, it is not normal to expect someone to be brawling on a motorway at night that is why they would be treated differently.

mathepac

hondasam wrote: »

... If he had a perfect car, d/lic tax etc he would still have hit them and killed them.

How do you know that? Are you privy to information the rest us don't have. Is there information you have that is not in the public domain? If you do, please post it so we can all work off the same data.

HigginsJ

My name is URL wrote: »

Realistically, what's the difference between failing to notice a pair of idiots fighting in the middle of the road, and failing to notice a person walking on a badly lit stretch of narrow road?

Many people have gone to jail or faced far harsher penalties than the guy in this case for failing to notice the latter.

read Kess73's description of the area, very hard for the guy to see the deceased, let alone avoid them

hondasam

ResearchWill wrote: »

From 2011


Joseph Doyle of 36 Grangegowan in Tullow has been fined a total of €700 on conviction for motoring offences. The 23 year old had no insurance (€500) and no driving licence (fine €200) at Irish Street in Bunclody on July 6 last year. Garda Inspector Pat Cody reported that Doyle, who was not present at Wednesday's District Court sitting, had not cooperated with the probation service, failing to keep appointments with the probation officer. Judge John Coughlan was assured that the defendant had already been disqualified from driving for a year.

From here http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/lifestyle/court-report-2975980.html

The disqualification was for previous offenses, do with previous motor of fences he got €700 for no licence and no insurance.

I found this one
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=court%20fines%20man%20no%20insurance&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEoQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.advertiser.ie%2Fmayo%2Farticle%2F15329&ei=4V-QT9C9GsPPhAeqvrmbBA&usg=AFQjCNEpMHXfooCls2FBBiQi-b0bcHZ8rQ

HigginsJ

ResearchWill wrote: »

From 2011


Joseph Doyle of 36 Grangegowan in Tullow has been fined a total of €700 on conviction for motoring offences. The 23 year old had no insurance (€500) and no driving licence (fine €200) at Irish Street in Bunclody on July 6 last year. Garda Inspector Pat Cody reported that Doyle, who was not present at Wednesday's District Court sitting, had not cooperated with the probation service, failing to keep appointments with the probation officer. Judge John Coughlan was assured that the defendant had already been disqualified from driving for a year.

From here http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/lifestyle/court-report-2975980.html

The disqualification was for previous offenses, do with previous motor of fences he got €700 for no licence and no insurance.

I think this kinda puts to bed the theory that the garda involved in this incident got off lightly.

The fine for no insurane, no licence are a joke,

leeroybrown

My name is URL wrote: »

Realistically, what's the difference between failing to notice a pair of idiots fighting in the middle of the road, and failing to notice a person walking on a badly lit stretch of narrow road?

Many people have gone to jail or faced far harsher penalties than the guy in this case for failing to notice the latter.

This happened on a motorway not a tiny bohreen. Motorway designated roads are supposed to be designed to allow drivers achieve the designated speed limit day or night without the risks associated with blind junctions, roadside obstructions, pedestrians, cyclists, agricultural vehicles, etc.

lividduck wrote: »

It routinely happens, banned from driving does not require you to have a liciense but it prevents you from obtaining one.

Technically the ban is applied from when you next receive a license. At that point it's endorsed and you lose it for the period of the ban.

hondasam

mathepac wrote: »

How do you know that? Are you privy to information the rest us don't have. Is there information you have that is not in the public domain? If you do, please post it so we can all work off the same data.

What a stupid thing to say.

What happened on the night is what happened, I can't change that, my point was if he had d/lic tax and no bald tyres it would still be the same outcome.

yer man!

This news story seems to be a bit ambiguous, Could he have had a learning permit? could his tax been out by only a few days? I know he shouldn't have been driving on a motorway with such a permit but I can guarantee you people drive on such roads with said qualification (no excuse but still). How many people on this very forum have had valid tax all their driving life? never ever having to pay arrears ever? how many people go around with illegal thread depth? many more than you'd think, how many people actually check their tyre depth on a regular basis? I know people who don't even know what car they drive and barely know that it takes petrol or diesel!!
From what I can see this collision was unavoidable and an accident.

Canis Lupus

My name is URL wrote: »

Realistically, what's the difference between failing to notice a pair of idiots fighting in the middle of the road, and failing to notice a person walking on a badly lit stretch of narrow road?

Many people have gone to jail or faced far harsher penalties than the guy in this case for failing to notice the latter.

Normally people out for a walk stay on the sides and don't start a wrestling match in the middle.

HigginsJ

yer man! wrote: »

This news story seems to be a bit ambiguous, Could he have had a learning permit? could his tax been out by only a few days? I know he shouldn't have been driving on a motorway with such a permit but I can guarantee you people drive on such roads with said qualification (no excuse but still). How many people on this very forum have had valid tax all their driving life? never ever having to pay arrears ever? how many people go around with illegal thread depth? many more than you'd think, how many people actually check their tyre depth on a regular basis? I know people who don't even know what car they drive and barely know that it takes petrol or diesel!!
From what I can see this collision was unavoidable and an accident.

Oh a complete accident.

But as someone said on the forum earlier it involved a Garda so he should have his livelyhood taken away for it.

HigginsJ

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Normally people out for a walk stay on the sides and don't start a wrestling match in the middle.

And wear some sort of light or reflector.

Mind you not enough people are wearing them still. Its a disgrace to see some people walking late at nights on country roads. Accidents and worse waiting to happen

Jesus Shaves

hondasam wrote: »

What a stupid thing to say.

What happened on the night is what happened, I can't change that, my point was if he had d/lic tax and no bald tyres it would still be the same outcome.

You don't know if it would be the same outcome.

Canis Lupus

HigginsJ wrote: »

And wear some sort of light or reflector.

Mind you not enough people are wearing them still. Its a disgrace to see some people walking late at nights on country roads. Accidents and worse waiting to happen

Not tht I've done it in years but in the country at night you'll see a car coming miles away, I used to jump well into the ditch out of the way. Most people nowadays least around here in Kerry are pretty good with high vis or a torch.

Canis Lupus

darokane wrote: »

You don't know if it would be the same outcome.

And neither do you.

hondasam

darokane wrote: »

You don't know if it would be the same outcome.

Having a d/lic and tax would have prevented the accident?

Feisar

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Haven't read the thread, but I'm confused about how a qualified garda would have no driving license in the first place. Isn't that part of their basic training? They should even have advanced training in place to be honest.

Anyway, no, I can't see a case for unsafe driving here, the culpability lies entirely on the shoulders of the deceased. Tussling on a motorway at night for gods sake. By the time the headlights even touched them round a bend anyone would have maybe a split second to take evasive action.

I doubt the vehicle itself would be responsive enough to avoid them.

Sure there is advanced driving courses but they probably don't check to see if the drivers are road legal, i.e. have a driving licence.

World class rally drivers wouldn't be "qualified" to drive on roads without a drivers licence in the eyes of the law.

HeidiHeidi

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Not tht I've done it in years but in the country at night you'll see a car coming miles away, I used to jump well into the ditch out of the way. Most people nowadays least around here in Kerry are pretty good with high vis or a torch.

I was driving back up to Dublin from the Carlow/Wicklow border area one night, on an empty, reasonable road so I would've been doing a fair speed (ages ago, so I honestly can't remember, but well within the limit). Next thing out of the L/H ditch :eek: lurches a drunken man, fell out about four feet onto the road. Dressed completely head to toe in dark clothing. Cue mad swerve by me, as he lurched back in again. His pal, who was a tad steadier on his feet, also head to toe in dark clothes, was about 20 feet ahead of him, also on the L/H side of the road.

I sincerely hope that both made it home alive, I checked the headlines the next day for road fatalities. I also hope that I would not have been vilified if I had hit either of them.

HigginsJ

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Not tht I've done it in years but in the country at night you'll see a car coming miles away, I used to jump well into the ditch out of the way. Most people nowadays least around here in Kerry are pretty good with high vis or a torch.

Shocking amount of young kids that are walking the roads at dark with no hint of light. In the last month or so i came across 3 with no spark of light and this was at 9.30pm on back-roads.

It begs massive questions of their parents but thats prob for another thread

ResearchWill

Section 38 (6) of the 1961 Act don't think it has been amended,

38.—(1) A person shall not drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place unless he holds a driving licence for the time being having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle.

(2) (a) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

(b) In a prosecution for an offence under this subsection, it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown by the defendant, that he did not, at the time he drove the vehicle, hold a driving licence then having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle.

(3) The owner of a mechanically propelled vehicle shall not employ a person to drive the vehicle in a public place unless the person holds a driving licence for the time being having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle.

(4) (a) A person who contravenes subsection (3) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.

(b) In a prosecution for an offence under this subsection, it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown by the defendant, that the person employed to drive the vehicle did not, at the time he drove the vehicle, hold a driving licence then having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle.

(5) A person—

(a) who is summarily convicted of the offence of contravening subsection (1) of this section and was at the time he committed the offence—

(i) disqualified for holding a driving licence, or

(ii) a person required to produce a certificate of competency or a certificate of fitness before obtaining a driving licence, or

(b) who is summarily convicted of the offence of contravening subsection (3) of this section in a case in which the person employed to drive the vehicle was at the time he drove the vehicle—

(i) disqualified for holding a driving licence, or

(ii) a person required to produce a certificate of competency or a certificate of fitness before obtaining a driving licence,

shall be liable to the following punishment in lieu of the punishment mentioned in section 102 of this Act, that is to say, to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.

(6) Subsections (1) to (5) of this section shall not apply in relation to a member of the Garda Síochána driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in the course of his duty.

(7) Pedestrian-controlled vehicles which are specified for the purposes of this subsection by the Minister by regulations and which comply with the conditions stated in the regulations are hereby excepted from subsections (1) to (5) of this section and sections 40 and 41 of this Act.

Jesus Shaves

hondasam wrote: »

Having a d/lic and tax would have prevented the accident?

Well done for not mentioning the one thing that might have changed the outcome

ROADWORTHY TYRES

TylerIE

SunnyDub1 wrote: »

he was driving with no driving license ?

I would like to see anyone else just get a fine for having no licene... If it was anyone else they would get more then a fine

Go into any district court any day of the year when the court is in session. Prepare to be stunned!

Terrontress

a Garda is never off-duty, is he?

There was a Garda who unfortunately crashed and died in the past month or so. He was travelling home from work at the time, so you'd presume not on duty, but the Garda Ombudsman are investigating it anyway as they are never off duty.

So maybe no serving Garda needs any license to drive any vehicle.

They should just make it a requirement of becoming a guard. You can't become a guard if you can't speak Irish but they'll let you join with no driving license. Madness.