Sheffield United and Wales footballer Ched Evans found guilty of Rape

Stuxnet

they didn't applaud in the end,
what goes around come around ! and the owls are going up :-D

hopefully the piggies lose out in the playoffs, the way the club, their silence and non immediate sacking of a convicted rapist, and one of their player's on twitter, calling the victim a money grabbing slag, and a lot of fans have stood by evans even after his conviction is disgusting

Hollister11

Looks likes Sheffield UTD will sign him up again.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/rape-football-star-ched-evans-7198458

Soft Falling Rain

Don't understand why Sheff Utd would do it, surely not worth the hassle and inevitable ****storm it's going to bring down on them.

It's a messy situation. You can't stop him from carrying on with his profession as he will have done his time, but how many other convicted rapists have their "status" in life instantly restored upon release? Very few I imagine.

Dempsey

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Don't understand why Sheff Utd would do it, surely not worth the hassle and inevitable ****storm it's going to bring down on them.

It's a messy situation. You can't stop him from carrying on with his profession as he will have done his time, but how many other convicted rapists have their "status" in life instantly restored upon release? Very few I imagine.

And what will be said if he clears his name?

Soft Falling Rain

Dempsey wrote: »

And what will be said if he clears his name?

I'm not saying he won't but it's unlikely, he's already lost one appeal.

CSF

I don't think you can blame Sheff United here, in the eyes of a ridiculously over-lenient justice system he has done his time and is now onto the next stage of the rehabilitation process.

acquiescefc

Convicted Rapist. Hardly a sackable offence!!! (tongue in cheek)

Sends a great message to the fans that one of your playing staff are capable of this.

CSF

acquiescefc wrote: »

Convicted Rapist. Hardly a sackable offence!!! (tongue in cheek)

Sends a great message to the fans that one of your playing staff are capable of this.

Look, if we aren't gonna go with the death penalty, then we have to allow people work after they've done what the ridiculously lenient justice system decrees is their time.

Rikand

Dempsey wrote: »

And what will be said if he clears his name?

The girl doesn't remember the incident, suffered no injuries and a rape conviction was given. If he wasn't cleared before, he never will be now

LuckyLloyd

CSF wrote: »

Look, if we aren't gonna go with the death penalty, then we have to allow people work after they've done what the ridiculously lenient justice system decrees is their time.

Are you saying rape should be punished by the Death Penalty?

It seems a number of people involved at the club are sympathetic to his claim of innocence and the club itself believes he would add value to the playing squad (probably correctly). He will be entitled to work having served an amount of time deemed acceptable by the justice system.

People always want stories like this every which way. If you are going to say 'doesn't matter what he says, he was convicted of rape therefore he is a rapist' then by extention you have to accept that once he is processed by the system he is then free to resume his life upon his release.

There's a small enough sample size, but footballers (or athletes in general) who serve multiple years in jail during their athletic prime tend not to improve or play to a level above what they were capable of before their convictions.

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Are you saying rape should be punished by the Death Penalty?

It seems a number of people involved at the club are sympathetic to his claim of innocence and the club itself believes he would add value to the playing squad (probably correctly). He will be entitled to work having served an amount of time deemed acceptable by the justice system.

People always want stories like this every which way. If you are going to say 'doesn't matter what he says, he was convicted of rape therefore he is a rapist' then by extention you have to accept that once he is processed by the system he is then free to resume his life upon his release.

There's a small enough sample size, but footballers (or athletes in general) who serve multiple years in jail during their athletic prime tend not to improve or play to a level above what they were capable of before their convictions.

No. I'm not saying rape should be punished by the death penalty.

Soft Falling Rain

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Are you saying rape should be punished by the Death Penalty?

It seems a number of people involved at the club are sympathetic to his claim of innocence and the club itself believes he would add value to the playing squad (probably correctly). He will be entitled to work having served an amount of time deemed acceptable by the justice system.

People always want stories like this every which way. If you are going to say 'doesn't matter what he says, he was convicted of rape therefore he is a rapist' then by extention you have to accept that once he is processed by the system he is then free to resume his life upon his release.

There's a small enough sample size, but footballers (or athletes in general) who serve multiple years in jail during their athletic prime tend not to improve or play to a level above what they were capable of before their convictions.

I can accept that, but the issue is that rightly or wrongly when people are convicted of such offences, upon release they find it very difficult to resume their life as it was.

This chap though is seemingly being given the opportunity to immediately carry on as things were, an opportunity most don't get. And why? Because he's a professional football player.

It just leaves a sour taste as it suggests again that people within this profession are somehow different to the rest of us, and get treated differently even if they commit (and have been convicted) of a serious crime.

CSF

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I can accept that, but the issue is that rightly or wrongly when people are convicted of such offences, upon release they find it very difficult to resume their life as it was.

This chap though is seemingly being given the opportunity to immediately carry on as things were, an opportunity most don't get. And why? Because he's a professional football player.

It just leaves a sour taste as it suggests again that people within this profession are somehow different to the rest of us, and get treated differently even if they commit (and have been convicted) of a serious crime.

I don't buy this argument. A binman could usually resume a career as a binman, a shop assistant could probably resume a career as a shop assistant, one working as a mechanic could still provably work as a mechanic. A guy wok worked in the finance industry could provably still work in the finance industry.

We just don't like that the job he's most qualified for pays very well and that leaves a bad taste in our mouths.

Soft Falling Rain

CSF wrote: »

I don't buy this argument. A binman could usually resume a career as a binman, a shop assistant could probably resume a career as a shop assistant, one working as a mechanic could still provably work as a mechanic. A guy wok worked in the finance industry could provably still work in the finance industry.

We just don't like that the job he's most qualified for pays very well and that leaves a bad taste in our mouths.

They could, but it certainly wouldn't be easy to get through a recruitment process. They could lie to get through the process but historically it's not easy for a convicted rapist to escape their past.

LuckyLloyd

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I can accept that, but the issue is that rightly or wrongly when people are convicted of such offences, upon release they find it very difficult to resume their life as it was.

This chap though is seemingly being given the opportunity to immediately carry on as things were, an opportunity most don't get. And why? Because he's a professional football player.

It just leaves a sour taste as it suggests again that people within this profession are somehow different to the rest of us, and get treated differently even if they commit (and have been convicted) of a serious crime.

Pro Athletes ARE different to you. They have a highly sought after specialist skill set held by a tiny percentage of the general population.

Additionally, he will receive a contract paying less than what he was on before the conviction (Lee Hughes was paid about 10% of what he had been on upon his return to the game). That is a version of what a less sought after person would suffer - i.e. a highly qualified developer maybe having to reboot in a junior testing role or similar.

CSF

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

They could, but it certainly wouldn't be easy to get through a recruitment process. They could lie to get through the process but historically it's not easy for a convicted rapist to escape their past.

I don't think this convicted rapist will escape his past either.

It's just a fact of life, for criminals or for law-abiding citizens, that people with particular talents earn more than others.

IMO his talents would have been better held by someone a bit more moral, but I don't think I've the right to say which people can work and which can't.

Dempsey

Rikand wrote: »

The girl doesn't remember the incident, suffered no injuries and a rape conviction was given. If he wasn't cleared before, he never will be now

Is that all your experience as a barrister talking?

He's currently appealing the decision so there is the possibility.

aodea

Im not really sure why people think that he would not be returning to football. I would imagine his contract is completely different to what it was prior to his conviction.

Footballers are highly skilled athletes and not easy to replace this is why he has gone back into football. Would people just expect him to go to Prison come out an have to become employed in something else?

Sport has several cases were people have been convicted of a criminal offence and gone back into the game. Marlon King, Lee Hughes both served time both came out of prison and have played professional football since. It was always going to happen. Mike Tyson served time and came back and fought several fights, Marion Jones was in prison and came back and played pro basketball in the states I think.

In life their, are people of questionable character across all industries and professions but if they are skilled enough at their job they will always find work.

And fans will forget this, as much as I hated Marlon king, when he was scoring goals for Coventry I did not really seem to mind. Then he left for more money first chance he got and I gladly went back to hating him.

gosplan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Pro Athletes ARE different to you. They have a highly sought after specialist skill set held by a tiny percentage of the general population.

Additionally, he will receive a contract paying less than what he was on before the conviction (Lee Hughes was paid about 10% of what he had been on upon his return to the game). That is a version of what a less sought after person would suffer - i.e. a highly qualified developer maybe having to reboot in a junior testing role or similar.

This is true.

Another good example is that convicted hackers are very often offered good jobs by computer security/anti-virus companies after their release.

By far the worst comparable situation is that of irish politicians convicted of corruption. They actually fare BETTER in elections following their conviction. Just shows how utterly utterly stupid the public is as a group.

acquiescefc

Yeah but corruption and hacking arent really the same as Rape.
I know you werent comparing but really cant believe that a family club, albeit a minor league club, will employ a convicted rapist.

Although i believe his contract was never ended so its past tense.

CSF

acquiescefc wrote: »

Yeah but corruption and hacking arent really the same as Rape.
I know you werent comparing but really cant believe that a family club, albeit a minor league club, will employ a convicted rapist.

Although i believe his contract was never ended so its past tense.

This would apply to all companies though. So really what you're saying is convicted rapists can't work.

eagle eye

This isn't a normal case by all accounts. The girl doesn't remember it, the prosecution case was that the girl was too drunk to have consensual sex.

But of course its just the normal thing where people only have a small bit of information(he was convicted of rape) and that is enough for them to get up on their pedestal and demand action.

acquiescefc

CSF wrote: »

This would apply to all companies though. So really what you're saying is convicted rapists can't work.

No im saying people convicted of hacking or corruption dont generally have to be expected to be role models of their employers within their future employment.

CSF

acquiescefc wrote: »

No im saying people convicted of hacking or corruption dont generally have to be expected to be role models of their employers within their future employment.

I don't think Ched Evans should be a rolemodel either. I don't think that should preclude him from playing sport in the third tier of his country.

acquiescefc

eagle eye wrote: »

This isn't a normal case by all accounts. The girl doesn't remember it, the prosecution case was that the girl was too drunk to have consensual sex.

But of course its just the normal thing where people only have a small bit of information(he was convicted of rape) and that is enough for them to get up on their pedestal and demand action.

I remember the jury of 12 men and women deciding that someone leaving by the fire escape was probably not up to summat good.

acquiescefc

CSF wrote: »

I don't think Ched Evans should be a rolemodel either. I don't think that should preclude him from playing sport in the third tier of his country.

Thats no way to talk about the Welsh National Team

EuropeanSon

If I were on a Welsh national team he was picked for, I'd retire from international football immediately in a mixture of disgust and protest.

That sort of creature should not be allowed to represent anyone, let alone a nation.

CSF

acquiescefc wrote: »

Thats no way to talk about the Welsh National Team

He hasn't been called up to the Welsh National Team, he is signing for a 3rd tier club.

dundalkfc10

EuropeanSon wrote: »

If I were on a Welsh national team he was picked for, I'd retire from international football immediately in a mixture of disgust and protest.

That sort of creature should not be allowed to represent anyone, let alone a nation.

Would agree if the case was clear cut, but IMO he should never have been found guilty

dd972

What ! In Prison :eek: Thought this case happened months ago !

LuckyLloyd

Athletes are not role models.

acquiescefc

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Would agree if the case was clear cut, but IMO he should never have been found guilty

On what basis?

He took advantage of someone without their consent whilst his mates filmed it and then legged it out the fire escape.

12 people who heard the evidence clearly thought otherwise.

POKERKING

Im one who thinks the case wasnt so clear cut.

On a side note which i think is worse is Plymouth resigned Luke Mccormack and made him captain this summer. He was there goalkeeper who drunk drove and killed two young boys and was convicted of manslaughter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2696973/Plymouth-Argyle-attack-appointing-killer-drink-driver-goalkeeper-clubs-new-captain.html

Soft Falling Rain

CSF wrote: »

This would apply to all companies though. So really what you're saying is convicted rapists can't work.

That's not the issue though.

People have a right to rebuild their life after serving their time, regardless of the crime. However, most people face extreme difficulty in rebuilding their life after serving time. Rightly or wrongly, that's how it is, and it's probably a significant factor in why so many end up re-offending.

Ched Evans will face no such difficulty. But that's ok apparently because according to some, he's offering a specialist service so should be the exception to the rule.

And that line of thinking, IMO, is a very slippery slope. Same applies to Luke McCormick.

LuckyLloyd

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

That's not the issue though.

People have a right to rebuild their life after serving their time, regardless of the crime. However, most people face extreme difficulty in rebuilding their life after serving time. Rightly or wrongly, that's how it is, and it's probably a significant factor in why so many end up re-offending.

Ched Evans will face no such difficulty. But that's ok apparently because according to some, he's offering a specialist service so should be the exception to the rule.

And that line of thinking, IMO, is a very slippery slope. Same applies to Luke McCormick.

You are confusing the individual choices and policies of privately held businesses (or public sector employers) with the justice system or societal rules. Most people face extreme difficulty because most people don't offer a tremendous skill set to prospective employers (particularly in the case of the cohort of the population likely to have been criminally convicted to begin with). But employers are free to choose to employ former criminals if they choose. The law won't prevent them (bar certain specific positions) and society doesn't have a hard rule against it.

Sheffield Utd as a privately held business are exercising their right to employ him because he offers a difficult to source skillset at a now drastically reduced rate. There is no slippery slope here - same as it ever was.

CSF

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

That's not the issue though.

People have a right to rebuild their life after serving their time, regardless of the crime. However, most people face extreme difficulty in rebuilding their life after serving time. Rightly or wrongly, that's how it is, and it's probably a significant factor in why so many end up re-offending.

Ched Evans will face no such difficulty. But that's ok apparently because according to some, he's offering a specialist service so should be the exception to the rule.

And that line of thinking, IMO, is a very slippery slope. Same applies to Luke McCormick.

But you people are talking as if that's almost an addition to the sentence handed out, that we as society are bound to uphold. It's not.

Soft Falling Rain

CSF wrote: »

But you people are talking as if that's almost an addition to the sentence handed out, that we as society are bound to uphold. It's not.

I know it's not, I'm just saying that it's unfortunate that most are chained to their crime by society long after they've served their sentence while others, deemed "better", are not.

K-9

Morally reprehensible, but morals are now the exception in football, the pleasant exception.

CSF

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I know it's not, I'm just saying that it's unfortunate that most are chained to their crime by society long after they've served their sentence while others, deemed "better", are not,

Yeah, it's **** that people who are naturally blessed with talents are constantly lavished with luxuries that the person they are may not necessarily deserve but it's not societies job to police that.

Personally I believe someone convicted of the crime he has been should spend a lot longer in prison, but I don't think it's acceptable for society to then try and impose their own sanctions too.

Agent Coulson

This is going to get very messy for Sheffield United.

Jessica Ennis-Hill receives rape threats over Ched Evans stance.

South Yorkshire police are investigating rape threats sent to Olympic gold medallist Dame Jessica Ennis-Hill after she said she would request the removal of her name from a stand at Sheffield United if it offers a new contract to convicted rapist Ched Evans.

Ennis-Hill received the abuse on Twitter, with one tweet, sent from the handle @RickieLambert07 reading: “Jessica Ennis-Hill is a stupid ****. Saying she will remove her name if Ched Evens [sic] is signed. I hope he rapes her.” Both the tweet and account were then deleted.After the troll was called “scum” for his threat, he replied: “Freedom of speech mate … I’ll say what I want when I want!”.

Another Twitter user, going by the handle @CoreyOC21, sent a message to Ennis-Hill which read: “Hope Ched Evans gets you you little slut.”

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/nov/14/jessica-ennis-hill-rape-threats-ched-evans-stance?CMP=fb_gu

Soft Falling Rain

Ironically he'd be better off if Sheffield Utd turn him away at this stage.

CSF

Agent Coulson wrote: »

This is going to get very messy for Sheffield United.

Jessica Ennis-Hill receives rape threats over Ched Evans stance.



http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/nov/14/jessica-ennis-hill-rape-threats-ched-evans-stance?CMP=fb_gu

To be honest, pretty much anything slightly opinionated that a celebrity says on Twitter these days is going to end in vile abuse. Yaya Toure got the same, it is disgusting but doesn't really reflect anything on this situation. Moreso on Twitter's lack of assistance in the policing of these horrible horrible people.

Dozen Wicked Words

Ched Evans, if he has any sense, which is doubtful, should go off and play in Turkey or Greece or some far flung league whilst he tries to clear his name, and then if he's successful, come back and play where he wants. Probably.

Guy:Incognito

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Ched Evans, if he has any sense, which is doubtful, should go off and play in Turkey or Greece or some far flung league whilst he tries to clear his name, and then if he's successful, come back and play where he wants. Probably.

Is he not on licence or somesuch for being released early? He may well not be able to just up sticks and move abroad.

Dempsey

To play devils advocate, what happens if he gets proven innocent. Ennis-Hill is right to do what she has done but its a big mess if he gets that verdict changed.

Kirby

acquiescefc wrote: »

I remember the jury of 12 men and women deciding that someone leaving by the fire escape was probably not up to summat good.

acquiescefc wrote: »

On what basis?

12 people who heard the evidence clearly thought otherwise.

Oh well if 12 people thought he was guilty than that settles it so. :rolleyes:

Are you really that naïve? Innocent people go to prison all the time. He may be guilty, he may not be. The case against him seemed inadequate. He was convicted on opinion, not on evidence.

The fact that he served time doesn't mean he did it, and them potentially over turning the conviction doesn't mean he didn't do it. Only he knows if he raped that girl. A court finding him innocent or guilty doesn't change that fact.

If he won his appeal would that suddenly change your stance? Are you that easily convinced of something?

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

Oh well if 12 people thought he was guilty than that settles it so. :rolleyes:

Are you really that naïve? Innocent people go to prison all the time. He may be guilty, he may not be. The case against him seemed inadequate. He was convicted on opinion, not on evidence.

Eeeehhhh, when the 12 people happen to be jurors, yeah, that usually does settle it.

He may set it aside, but right now, he is a rapist.

I think he should be allowed pursue his career but if not, boo hoo, maybe he'll think twice before raping the next time he's out.

A rapist is as low as it gets.

I wish him nothing but misery.

It'd be a PR disaster for Sheffield Utd to offer him a contract tbh

Dirty Dingus McGee

Why in the name of god are Sheffield United having anything to do with him.It's a complete PR disaster and is surely doing massive damage to their reputation and their ability to attract sponsorship and fans in the future.


On a sporting level it doesn't make a lot of sense either as he wasn't exactly a brilliant player.A team might put up with this hassle if he was unbelievably good but for a player who failed at the top level to be bothering with him after him being convicted of rape seems mad.

Also I wonder do any of Sheffield Utd's players have an issue with him beinga allowed to train with them and potentially being re signed, I can't imagine it is doing much for morale in the team.

CSF

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Why in the name of god are Sheffield United having anything to do with him.It's a complete PR disaster and is surely doing massive damage to their reputation and their ability to attract sponsorship and fans in the future.


On a sporting level it doesn't make a lot of sense either as he wasn't exactly a brilliant player.A team might put up with this hassle if he was unbelievably good but for a player who failed at the top level to be bothering with him after him being convicted of rape seems mad.

Also I wonder do any of Sheffield Utd's players have an issue with him beinga allowed to train with them and potentially being re signed, I can't imagine it is doing much for morale in the team.

He was banging in the goals before all this happened. If he returned to that level in League 1, he would eat up.

On a pure footballing level, signing him as a free agent for a League 1 club would be a no-brainer.

The fact that Sheff United are signing him even in his circumstances smacks of desperation, but you were always going to find a club in that position.

He was never going to not be able to resume his place as a footballer, but it would be difficult for him to succeed with what he has done, even if it were to later to transpire that he was innocent.